Win High Wall: .38-55 or 32-40

[Marine Sgt 2111]

Gentlemen,
I see that there are two threads about the "new" high walls here already but...I have been eyeballing the new winchesters and have settled on either .38-55 or .32-40. What are your comments about these cartridges and which would you pick. I do have a GB mould for .38-55 but that doesn't mandate using that cartridge. Peep sights will be the optics....so what do you think?

Thanks for the input....:Fire:

[Johnw...ski]

I have a 38-55 hi-wall that I like a lot and is quite accurate. I also tend to like the larger bores but 32-40 is an interesting cartridge and certainly has a lot of history, and I hope to own a rifle of that chambering in the future.

If you already have a 38-55 I would go for the 32-40, if not the 38-55 would be my first choice.

Good luck,

John


Gentlemen,
I see that there are two threads about the "new" high walls here already but...I have been eyeballing the new winchesters and have settled on either .38-55 or .32-40. What are your comments about these cartridges and which would you pick. I do have a GB mould for .38-55 but that doesn't mandate using that cartridge. Peep sights will be the optics....so what do you think?

Thanks for the input....:Fire:

[Boz330]

Are you going to shoot Black or White powder? If Black then the 38-55 will be easier to keep from fowling. If smokeless then whichever rings your bell.:drinks:

Bob

[NickSS]

I have experience with both cartridges and both will shoot extreamly well out to a couple hindred yards. The 38-55 has the edge if you plan to use it for anything other than paper punching. As for using them with black powder they both were originally black powder cartridges and fine ones at that. As usual with black you need to work up a load with the right compression to get optimal accuracy. I have used my original 32-40 Ballard for 200 yard matches and it prints 2 to 3 inch groups from a bench rest at that range. My C Sharps 1885 high wall will do the same in 38-55. By the way neither can fit as much black powder as the name implies.

[August]

You actually have this choice right now with two Davidson's special editions floating around. It's a wonderful world!!!

I opted for the 38-55 solely for the reason that lever gunz are easier to come by in that caliber than in 32-40. However, the headstamp is about the only thing that is dimensionally similar between the chambering of the 38-55 in lever gunz and the Hi-Wall.

You, of course, know the official answer to your question: Get them both!!!

[Marine Sgt 2111]

Thank you gentlemen for your input. August your killing me....at over a $1000.00 a piece.....rrrrr.....(am now thinking about it)

As to powder selection, smokeless.

I have two shilo's, a ruger #1 and all three are 45-70's. I am just getting an itch for a medium bore in a single shot.

[Kraschenbirn]

Haven't quite gotten my 38-55 Highwall to shoot consistent MOA groups (yet!) but it's sure helluva lot of fun to shoot...with either BP or smokeless. This was my second BP cartridge piece...behind a Trapdoor carbine...and I haven't regretted the purchase for a minute. On the other hand, I'm seriously considering an RB in either 32-40 or, maybe, 30-40.

Just my nickle's worth.

Bill

[Jon K]

Marine Sgt 2111,

Got the itch huh?....................You're hooked, cause it's an itch, you can't scratch.

$1,000 is nothing, next to what the 2 Shiloh's cost. Just a matter of where you set your priorities.

Medium bore single shots......I Love Them, never get tired of shooting them, so pleasant to shoot. I would feel lost without having at least 1 in the safe to shoot. Usually it's shot the most.

Have Fun Shooting,
Jon

[Marine Sgt 2111]

Jon K, I have to tell ya, the Shilo's were bought a long time ago...'82 and '85. The first was a long range express with a 34" bbl, pistol grip and the most beautiful wood is have on any of my rifles. I had the chance to talk to Wolfgang Droge(sp) and he was very kind to me and personally picked out the wood. It was $780.00

The second was bought from a gentleman by the name of White, a doctor who lived in Utah. Turns out that he founded White rifles. It was a saddle ring carbine, just the ticket for deer hunting in Michigan, and was $375.00
So now that I am looking retiring early via military and ssc the '85 is looking better all the time. Your right, a question of priorities. Thanks for your input.

[HEAD0001]

I would like to have one of the 38-55's. My problem is why have they had such a price increase in just a couple of years. Just a couple of years ago you could pick up a Winchester of Browning for $600 or $700. Now all of a sudden they are $400 or $500 more. I just can't understand why?? And they have went to a plainer more straight grain piece of wood. I guess it is all profit to them. Tom.

[Boz330]

I would like to have one of the 38-55's. My problem is why have they had such a price increase in just a couple of years. Just a couple of years ago you could pick up a Winchester of Browning for $600 or $700. Now all of a sudden they are $400 or $500 more. I just can't understand why?? And they have went to a plainer more straight grain piece of wood. I guess it is all profit to them. Tom.

One reason is both the Browning and Winny are made overseas and the dollar is crap right now. Look at C-Sharps Arms Hi-walls they are good bang for the buck and American made with Badger barrels. And available in all the calibers mentioned. I've had a 40-65 for 17 years and had to save a long time to buy my first and never looked back. Bought a 75 in 38-55 from them 4 years ago and love it as well. :drinks:

Bob

[Marine Sgt 2111]

it's true the american buck has gone down the tubes, but the price of oil has dropped and the dollar is coming back. I didn't know those '85's were made over seas, now I shall have to rethink this.

I am still trying to recover from having bought a re-run model 52B with "made in Japan" on the barrel a few years ago. I always try to buy american made when possible.

I will check out C Sharps. Oh as a side note, when Dr. White was selling his rifles, I assume to generate capital for his company, the other rifle he had for sale, but which was sold, was a ruger #3 with an octagon barrel in .38-55. Go figure.

[HEAD0001]

I will agree that the dollar is in the dumps all around most of the world. Especialliy in Europe against the Euro. But The Yen is down about as much as the Dollar. So I am not buying the excuse against the Yen.

I think the price increase came for two simple reasons. A slightly higher demand because of the resurrgence of cowboy shooting, and the demise of Winchester in the US. I personally believe it is price gouging, and not the woes of the dollar.

Also I believe the wood comes from America. And I believe the quality of the wood has also been lowered substantially.

You can still shop around and find an older one for $600 or so. I would rather find one of them and then rebarrel with a better barrel?? Just my opinion. Tom.

[jhrosier]

I have a slightly different opinion of the situation.
I have several of the Miroku (Japanese) made Browning and Winchester rifles.
They all are as close to perfect, in fit and finish, as any mass-produced gun that I have ever seen, inside and out.
This is the kind of quality that used to come out of Winchester.
Most of the other foreign copies of these guns don't even come close to the Mirokus, but the high prices certainly don't reflect the lack of quality.

I am convinced that the demand for these models has pushed the prices of the higher quality guns above the prices of the lesser quality guns.
You might say that the retail is wagging the dog.

If Pedersoli and Uberti were to turn out a better quality firearm, without raising the prices, the Mirokus would either have to match the price or disappear from the marketplace.

:coffee:

Jack

[HEAD0001]

I agree with you about the new rifles being of outstanding quality. All I am saying is there is a little price gouging. I paid less tha $800 for my High Grade Extra Light 1886. Then as soon as Winchester closed their plant the price doubled, and some tripled. And the 1886's were not even made in the plant that closed down?? Tom.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

The minimum caliber for the Quigley and most of the other similar type shoots is 38. I would consider the new Pedersoli HiWall Target Model. In 38-55 it comes with a 1:12" twist, which will stabilize a bullet 1.5" long. That would actually come the closest thing to a "One rifle for everything" scenario. It would also let you rechamber to 38-70, or the 38-90, which is what I rebarreled one of my Shilohs to last year. I shoot the DanT design which comes out of my Brooks mould at 1.495" long X.376" diameter with 1:20 alloy. It shot well at the Quigley apart from a brain cramp that saw me trying to hit the 784yd Buffalo with my 600yd sight setting.

Rich

[GabbyM]

With the price of the imports anymore you'll want to check out the US shops before flopping down your money. I know the Model 70's they are selling should be very good for what they are listing the price at. Since you can buy a "custom shop" rifle for less.

Note:
I Should point out the new Model 70's are made in the U.S.A. Under contract.

[Boz330]

I will agree that the dollar is in the dumps all around most of the world. Especialliy in Europe against the Euro. But The Yen is down about as much as the Dollar. So I am not buying the excuse against the Yen.

I think the price increase came for two simple reasons. A slightly higher demand because of the resurrgence of cowboy shooting, and the demise of Winchester in the US. I personally believe it is price gouging, and not the woes of the dollar.

Also I believe the wood comes from America. And I believe the quality of the wood has also been lowered substantially.

You can still shop around and find an older one for $600 or so. I would rather find one of them and then rebarrel with a better barrel?? Just my opinion. Tom.

By the time you buy a good barrel and pay a smith to install it and blue it you can just about have a C-Sharps 85. They come with Badger barrels installed.

Bob

[wonderwolf]

I don't mean to thread hijack but I have a Q about the 38-55 cartridge. I see starline lists two cases for the 38-55 one is 2.08" long and the other is 2.125" long which is named 38-55 LONG in their price list. what gives with these two dif lengths? and seeing the price differance I don't see why somebody who is somewhat skilled in reloading couldn't simply draw the shorter case a little longer?

[floodgate]

The longer length .38-55 is the original Marlin-Ballard round, adopted by Winchester and Savage before 1900 for the '94 and '99. In the 1970's or thereabouts, demand for the cartridge was very limited, so WW and R-P started making them up from un-necked, and shorter, .30-30 draws, and the "revival" chamberings went with the shorter cases. At least that's how I remember the sequence of events.

Floodgate

[2Tite]

Back to the question.....I'd get the 32-40. Lot's of matches won with that caliber. Pleasant to shoot.....extremely accurate with cast bullets. There was a reason it was such a popular schuetzen cartridge. Day in and day out.....one of the most accurate lead bullet cartidges. The 38-55 is good also but can be tiring to shoot with the heavier bullets. Most of the schuetzen bench rifles were in 32-40......most of the old records were set with 32-40. Again, there was a reason for that.................an opinion worth what you paid for it................

[Vintage BPCS]

Wonderwolf:
My we assume you already have the 38/55 rifle. You really should make a cast of the chamber, long enough to have a good section of rifling. From this you can measure the max case length, and thus acquire the proper case. Most modern rifles will use the short case. Unfortunately originals can have almost any length chamber, thus the casting measure. My 33/40 for example needs a case that is 2.300 in long and the standard would be 2.130 in. So I reform 38/55 cases to fit. A properly fit case is essential if you shoot BP because the fowling can creep behind the shorter case and cause case stretch and separation. You can tell if the case is to short whether BP or smokeless if after firing the neck or sidewall is blackish. But now we are into reloading technique.
VintaGE BPCS

[Vintage BPCS]

38/55 vs 32/40
Historically the 32/40 was the rifle caliber of choice for shooting out to 200 yards, and offhand. Most 32/40 will shoot cast lead bullet in the 195-220 grn range. Pre-Cast bullets are harder to locate. Unless you cast your own and at that the molds choices are limited unless you go to custom made. The 32/40 is easy on the shoulder with BP. As for modern powders their doesn't seem to be a lot of proven load data, in print. Super caliber for the shorter modern ranges and silhouettes out to 250 yrds. The 38/55 is becoming more popular with cowboy action. Thus more loading data has become available, heavier bullet capacity is less effected by the wind, larger powder charge means longer range. It seems, presently, the 38/55 along with 40/65 are the preferred calibers for midrange silhouette matches. The 32/40 hasn't enough umph to reach out and touch the turkeys or rams in particular.
If I were to choose one over the other I go for the 32/40 for our modern shorter rifle ranges. and then the 45/70 for every thing else. If one looks, a very good original Steven 44 1/2 or Hi Wall can be had for $700-$1000.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Vintage,

please let me know where to look for those giveaway prices on any decent shooting 44 1/2's or HiWalls. In Idaho you would be about 50% low for a complete action in good shape.

Rich

[wonderwolf]

Wonderwolf:
My we assume you already have the 38/55 rifle. You really should make a cast of the chamber, long enough to have a good section of rifling. From this you can measure the max case length, and thus acquire the proper case. Most modern rifles will use the short case. Unfortunately originals can have almost any length chamber, thus the casting measure. My 33/40 for example needs a case that is 2.300 in long and the standard would be 2.130 in. So I reform 38/55 cases to fit. A properly fit case is essential if you shoot BP because the fowling can creep behind the shorter case and cause case stretch and separation. You can tell if the case is to short whether BP or smokeless if after firing the neck or sidewall is blackish. But now we are into reloading technique.
VintaGE BPCS


I was merely asking, I do not own a 38-55 nor anything closely related. I was curious as to why the two different dimensions and why somebody would not just draw the shorter case longer if they needed it for their rifle.

[Vintage BPCS]

Idaho Sharpshooter,
I know the prices of originals seems to float with the daily quote on a barrel of Oil, but I have been seeing these SS rifles at my mid-west collectable guns-shows in those $ ranges. My biggest problem is acquiring and then keeping the $ in my pocket to buy, when a deal comes along. I do subscribe to several SS/BP publications, and have established a network of personal friendships over a multi-state area from which I can put out a call for a rifle and usually get a reply over time. The inter-personal network is the real key here. Mine is nearly 30 years developed.
DRB