9mm rnds not allowing the slide to close

[Wilson]

The saga continues. Some of my cartridges do not allow the slide to close on my Glock 17 and 19 Storm Lake barrels. I sized the bullets twice because I thought maybe I didn't completely size them when I saw that they were sticking. I can see where the bullet is making contact with the chamber evenly all the way around the bullet just past the brass case. Not all rounds do this. All were sized twice in an effort to eliminate this problem. I do notice that some bullets size easier than others. Any solutions? I'm working with 147 gr bullets from a Lyman mold cast with wheel weights.

[runfiverun]

if the boolit is making contact that is what is making your slide stop short.
i had some 124 gr 9mm's do this i seated them a bit deeper.

[HeavyMetal]

Think we need a bit more info.

1. I believe I know which boolit mold your talking about, but what are you sizing it to. ( diameter)

2. Your sure nothing is on the mold face holding it open? Kind of an inadvertant "beagling" as it were.

3 Your sure all the boolits are completely filled out? If some are not that would be the reason some chamber and some don't!

4. this particular Lyman mold makes a boolit that is a bit longer than average for the 9. It is possible that your seeing more than one problem here. Boolit my need to be seated deeper, the boolits my need to be sized to a smaller Diameter ( .355 instead of say .357) or ??

Double check all your measurements and examine the cast boolits under a strong magnifiying glass for fill out and severe out of round.

[docone31]

My Star did that. Not every round, just once in a while.
I redid the seating depth a little. That fixed it. I had used the OAL for the cartridge. My casting was not what the specs showed.
Setting the casting just a little deeper and it was snag free.

[Duce]

Only 3 problems can cause it:

1. Pistol has a weak return spring. ( if it fires with factory rounds and locks after each shot skip this problem.)

2. diameter of round. ( possible out of round and not fully run through the die)

3. Length of round. ( bullet not set to given length.)

[870TC]

Sounds like Runfiverun has the answer. Take your barrel out of the gun, drop your reloads in to the chamber, then do the same with a factory loaded round. Do your reloads stick out of the chamber/barrel more than the factory round?? if yes, then seat the bullet deeper.

[crabo]

You can also try a little more taper crimp.

[Down South]

I agree with Runfiverun. You may need to seat the boolits a little deeper.

[mike in co]

You can also try a little more taper crimp.


not if its the bullet hitting the end of the chamber.....holding it tighter wont help.....he did say the bullet is engraving....

mike in co

[monadnock#5]

My old Lyman 45th Manual gives a standard 1.169 OAL across the board for 9mm. The 48th Edition gives individual OAL'S for each boolit. If that's the 356637 mould your using, make your OAL 1.058, and your problem is solved.

[Jimlakeside]

I use the same mold and shoot it out of a Glock 34 with a Lone Wolf barrel. What I noticed was the that the slide would fail to close on bullets that were not crimped properly. The problem was even more pronounced on my wife's Wilson Combat KZ (tighter tolerences I guess). My problem did not seem to be related to OAL. I just made sure there was a smooth transition between the bullet and the brass and the problem ended. I have shoot several hundred round lately without any problems.

I also noticed that when sizing these cast bullets that some were much harder to size than others. I am sizing to .356.

Hope you get it figured out.

[robertbank]

Bullets sized .355 in the 9MM will tumble. I have had them tumble shooting IDPA at targets less then 10 yards away. If you have removed the belling on your cases with your crimp you need not crimp anymore. I would bet your problem lies with the OAL of your cartridge, nothing more. I have shot several thousand rds this spring in my 9MM sizing them .357 with excellent results. I do use the 125 gr bullet however. My guns seem to like the lighter bullet frankly.

Take Care

Bob

[Wilson]

Thanks for all the good input. I'm at work now and won't be home for another 5 days, then I'll do some more checking later. I’m using a Lyman 4-Cavity Bullet Mold #356637 9mm (356 Diameter) 147 Grain Flat Nose Bevel Base. I'm sizing to .356 on a Lyman 450 (but I’ve got a Star on the way). I'll try and seat the bullet deeper as suggested. Thanks to Monadnok I’ll try and seat the bullet to 1.058

Robertbank, what mold are you using for your 125 grain bullet. I tried a Lee mold (Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold 356-125-2R 9mm Luger, 38 Super, 380 ACP (356 Diameter) 125 Grain 2 Ogive Radius) and I really like the speed and ease of casting with a Lee mold, but I felt the bullet shape was the cause of my feeding problems. I’d like a more pointed 6-cavity mold or at least a 4 cavity.

[pstew]

Your issue might more related to "Glock Bulge" than your bullets. There are millions of words out there on the web about the unsupported chamber, so I won't go into that, but take a look at the EGW under size sizing die (resizes the brass farther down and smaller than standard dies), or the Lee carbide factory crimp die (resizes finished ammo to the correct size)

Hope this helps

[Shottist]

Suggest you consider buying a $10 9MM ctg. gauge from Midway or Dillon or someone. When the cartridges will all "gauge", they will all chamber in most any standard gun.

[robertbank]

HI

I use the Lyman 356402 4 cavity mold. I size to ,357 only because I shoot 9MM in a number of guns:

3 Hi-Powers
Tanfoglio
S&W M&P
CZ 85 Pre-B (Since Sold)
STI Trojan

Bullet is a truncated cone style and feeds like hot butter. Bullet is very accurate when over 4.1 gr 231. Load makes power factor of around 130 - 135 depending on the gun which is enough for IPSC Production and IDPA. Driving my lead bullets faster in my experience did nothing for accuracy, consumed more powder and just led to a sore wrist.

I found sizing to .355 caused leading and bullet tumbling in all my guns. I now size to .357 and experience no leading and accuracy obviously improved. I use Felix Lube - a soft lube. Hard lube has an application in reloading....I just haven't found what application.:mrgreen:

I water drop my bullets (WW Alloy), only because I am lazy and it works for me.

Good Luck.

Take Care

Bob

[monadnock#5]

I had issues with the 356637 when seated at 1.169. They wouldn't function at all in a Hi-Power, and only sometimes in a Glock 17. In fact, in the Glock they were an out of battery KB waiting to happen. At 1.058 they function flawlessly. Mid range loads drop the cases on the bill of my ball cap and heavier loads ricochet the cases off the rafters.

9MM is a pre SAAMI round, so manufacturers evidently feel they have some leeway in barrel specs. My Wilson after market barrel for the Glock slugs at .3575, so I size to .358. So slug your barrel like Bub said.

I also water drop, and laziness is a big plus for that procedure, but it also removes the temptation to examine each drop and foul up the rhythm. It's a Kenny Rogers thing, "you've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em..."

[yodar]

Suggest you consider buying a $10 9MM ctg. gauge from Midway or Dillon or someone. When the cartridges will all "gauge", they will all chamber in most any standard gun.

Everybody should use a case gage when he is setting his equipment and for QC

AND fer SURE get a Lee 9mm Factory crimp die.

Once I started using those two items my FTF stopped totally

NOT owner a Glock, however

yodar

[kjg]

I had similar experiances #1 was using different cases fed,win, rem,military,and found out that the brass itself was causing problems, fixed that with a rcbs tapper crimp die. #2 also discoverd when using a heavyer boolit, the round would cause the slide to stop slightly out of battery and not fire, adjusted seater slightly, that fix was solved. just my two cents worth. kjg

[Wilson]

OK, I made it back to the house and checked the OAL of my cartridges. Thanks Monadnock#5 for letting me know about the OAL. I was way too long having seated at the standard OAL. I promptly seated to 1.058, but it's not going to work well with the rounds I've already loaded. I put a slight crimp that is now shaving lead. I'll load a new batch tomorrow and see how it goes.
I got my Star luber/sizer today and promptly put it to work. After a bit of fiddling with the depth adjustment and temperature, I knocked out a thousand and a bit in 30 minutes. What a dream.

[robertbank]

Wilson, do not put a roll crimp on your 9MM rds. all you have to do is remove any belling you applied when resizing your cases. The 9MM rd only requires a very slight taper crimp. The bullet is retained in the case by friction as is the case with a number of pistol cartridges. Oddly enough to much crimp can actually result in bullets being less tight in the case not more.

Take Care

Bob

[mtgrs737]

+1 on the cartridge gauge, I gauge all my simi-auto cartridges and don't have any problems. I also use a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die in my last position when I load 9mm as it takes out the "Glock bulge" in the lower part of the cartridge case that the standard sizing die can't reach. The gauge will "Tell the Story". Good luck!

[Wilson]

The problem is solved.
Solution = OAL 1.058 with NO crimp.
I can do press checks again and the cartridges cycle flawlessly.
MANY THANKS TO ALL for sharing your knowledge and helping me through this L O N G learning curve.
This morning my daughter and I set up our new Dillon 650 and have got the bugs worked out. It'll be time to go shoot this afternoon. I've got five kids eagerly awaiting the Wednesday night Practical Pistol Match. We'll be ready!
Best Regards,
Bill Hickman
www.hickmangrouptraining.com

[mike in co]

bill,
a minor point, but it is what caused your issue. most if not all cartridges havs a design MAX length. it is not "standard" by any means for a cartridge. you must look at load data for the specific oal for a given bullet/boolit.
so read the fine print..all the data and then proceed. once you have THIER load working, you can fine tune for your gun. this can be done with boolit size, oal, amount of crimp and powder charge.

mike in co

[MSmyth]

Not to highjack the thread, but I have a similar issue. I'm using the LEE 125 gr round nose. My Beretta feeds it great. My 1911 with Kart NM barrel wont. The bullet hits the land, preventing chambering when set at the min OAL. Is it safe/wise to shorten the overall length (using reduced loads)? Or should I try another bullet shape? Feeds lacketed great.

[Rooster]

Interesting thread. I just wanted those contributors to know that you have solved my sticking problem. Well, I finally got that 9mm case gauge and that showed me right where my problem was. I really am hooked on this forum. Thanks one and all, especially the OP.

[LqChrome]

I agree with pstew, the Lee factory crimp die We have had great results with the 9mm and the 45ACP.Although we've only loaded 2000 rds of 9mm none have failed to feed.Also had same rds.and results with 45.This was with five 9mm and three 45ACP.I recomend the Lee factory crimp die although it's really a post sizing die. It sizes the LOADED round for sure feeding.

[robertbank]

One word of warning about the Lee FCD for pistol cartridges. While the die smooths things out it also swages down the size of your bullet. I size my 9MM .357 and have found they feed just fine in all my 9MM guns (STI Trojan, Tanfoglio, HP, CZ).

The bulge you see, particularly when reloading .45acp with cast bullets sized .452 is completely normal and your cartridges should feed just fine. Removing the bulge with your FCD just reduces the diameter of your bullet which I am not so sure is a good thing for accuracy or potential leading. So too the 9MM.

Something to think about. Your pistol is the best gauge as to whether your reloaded cartridges are going to feed as they should. When loading pistol cartrdges in volume a case gauge is a PITA IMHO and really not necessary.

Take Care

Bob
ps This year I reloaded close to 20,000 rds of 9MM, .40cal and .45acp with nary a problem.

[HeavyMetal]

To MSmyth:
You've now discovered the "fun" in reloading!

I shoot a bunch of the Lee boolits your loading and have had great success with them.

You haven't posted much info on the load your trying to shoot so I'll be a bit vague in my suggestions.

IF your load is not Max yes you can seat your boolits deeper in the case. With the understanding, especially with the 9mm, that pressures can sky rocket real fast as the boolits are pushed into the case!

It would not be the first time I have had to keep to seperate "lots" of the same caliber because one gun was fussier than another.

I will suggest you make up several "dummy" rounds, with no crimp on them and then adjust the OAL a few thousandths at a time, then run them through the gun manually to see if they work.

Once you have a working OAL then select a start load and work up from there looking for the usual signs of pressure!

Then see if the load that works in the 1911 kart barrel works as well in the Beretta. You may end up with one good load for both!

[robertbank]

Here is one way to quickly find the OAL for your pistol with the bullet you are using.

1. Measure the length of the bullet.

2. Remove your barrel and drop a bullet into the chamber.

3. Measure from the base of the bullet to where the case sits flush with the chamber.

4. Add the length of the bullet to your length you determined in 3.

5. Back off a few thousandths and you have the ideal length for your cartridges for that bullet in your gun.

Seating a bullet deeper than recomended by the bullet manufacturer gains you nothing and as has been pointed out can raise pressures very quickly and with the 9MM and .40cal that is a real no, no.

Take Care

Bob

[Ricochet]

With the Lee FCD for 9mm there's no worry about undersizing the boolit if you adjust the die right. Tapered case, not straight.

That case bulge is the limiting factor for cast boolit diameter in quite a few guns.

[robertbank]

Ricochet if that is true where does the bulge go to since it is caused by the bullet. If your reduce the diameter of the case you have to be reducing the size of the bullet you would think. For those with a FCD measure a bullet, seat it and if the case is bulged run it through your FCD. Pull the bullet and measure it again. I would curious to know the diameter change, if any.

Take Care

Bob

[Ricochet]

Yes, it reduces it of course, but if you reduce the tapered outside of the case just enough to allow proper chambering, you can't size the boolit undersized, just to the maximum dimension your gun allows.

If you're going to do that, there's no point in previously sizing your boolit, either.

I've never seen a problem I could ascribe to the Lee FCDs undersizing boolits. I have, however, many times had loaded rounds that wouldn't chamber because of those bulges. Commonly recommended oversizes for boolits won't always go in a tight chamber.

[robertbank]

Well you confirmed what I thought. As to undersizing a 9MM. Considering the sometimes wide variations of 9mm barrels, particularly those from Europe I would suggest you do run the risk. If you resize your bullets to .356, as some do, in a .355 barrel then reduce your case by a thousanths of an inch you are at the undersize bullet situation where increased leading, and tumbling of bullets can occur.

I have sized bullets .355 in a .355 barrel and had them tumbling inside of 10' shooting IDPA.

Personally I resize all my cast bullets for 9MM to .357. I found increased accuracy across the board and virtually no leading.

If your gun won't chamber a case with a bullet sized .357 then you have a very rare tight chambered 9MM gun or your cartridges have to long an OAL IMHO.

Take Care

Bob

[Jumping Frog]

The problem is solved.
Solution = OAL 1.058 with NO crimp.
I can do press checks again and the cartridges cycle flawlessly.
You didn't mention what kind of powder you are using, but a quick check of several reloading guides shows 1.058 is well below the minimum OAL for every powder I checked for a 147 gr bullet. There were some 90-115 gr bullets that could go that short, but a number of them were also compressed charges for several powders.

As example, min OAL for Titegroup is 1.100, AA #5 or #7 lists 1.140, WSF is 1.169 (??), Alliant lists 1.13 for Unique, Blue Dot, and Power Pistol, N330-340-350 lists min OAL of 1.142.

Anyway, I'd sure hate for you to have a kaboom or hurt someone because 1.058 was mentioned on the internet and you thought it would feed better. A cartridge loaded too short can reach dangerously high pressures. Please doublecheck your load guide.