Ruger old army, DISCUSS!

[Tnfalconer]

So let's assume these are beater guns, the plan is to cut the barrel down to 4.5? Install brass sights, bisley style hammer and recontour the grip for a more "birdsheadish" feel. Then send it off to Mike at GOONS Guns for to make her slicker than Owl **** on a pump handle....

And GO!

[Outpost75]

Why spend more than the price of the gun on customizing to ruin an Old Army?

These are no longer made and are becoming more valuable because the supply is finite and there will be no more.

Cobble up a common cartridge gun which has no collector value and knock yourself out, it's your money.

That short barrel isn't going to get you much more than 600 fps with black powder...

[Scharfschuetze]

There's a birds head sheriff's model SAA Colt replica from Uberti or a like manufacturer that sounds much like what you are after, other than it uses cases instead of cap and ball.

I found this on the Internet:

https://www.gunauction.com/buy/14472976

[bedbugbilly]

First off, I don't know why Ruger ever discontinued making these but I'm sure they had their reasons. It's too bad they don't start making them again.

As OutPost said - they have become collector's items and the value keeps going up on them.

I'm curious as to what you consider as a "beater gun"? Worn finish? Wear at moving parts locations? Rust and pitting due to neglect and improper cleaning? If so, then why spend so much "converting" a "beater gun"? For what you are talking about, you'll spend more than you'd ever get out of it.

I"m assuming that you are leaving it C & B or are your plans to put a conversion cylinder in it as well? If converting and chopping it all to heck, what is to be gained over a similar configuration that Uberti already produces in their SAA models?

Or, why not just take a regular Uberti Remington NMA which has a top strap frame and chop that up to play with. it would be a lot cheaper to use one of those from the get go that is "new" and not a "beater" than it would be to cut up a ROA,, that even in a worn state would be worth more than the new Remington.

But since we are "assuming", then I will assume that it is your gun to do with as you wish and your money to spend. :-)

[Tnfalconer]

Let's assume I came into a stack of them like cord wood....

I know they are relatively collectible. I have seen conversions like the referenced above and thought they were very appealing to my eye. Value wise, I'm not sure about losing value. The chopped, cut up beater that was shortened, refinished and regripped sold for around three times the estimated value of the original not long ago so we will go with the assumption that money isn't an object and I have no interest of parting with them after custom work.

[DougGuy]

I've been getting calls for cylinder reaming to take .453" balls or boolits, and also forcing cone recutting being it can be shipped without an FFL requirement.

[Powersgt]

The original RBH flat top .44 mag is a fairly finite model but yet you see them still being improved with relatively success. I would assume the Old Army is in a similar situation as the original flat top so why not make a "one of a kind" revolver out of it. We are not talking about a 100-200 year old item here that is as rare as hens teeth.

I would think if it is done well or better yet if it has a name attached to it; it would certainly add value to it. Besides its your gun and if resale and profit are not your motive then go for it.

Just my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bedbugbilly]

Tnfalconer - then "assuming" all those things . . . :-) . . . I would say "go for it" if that is what you want and what appeals to you. Life is too short to not take chances once in a while and make your fantasies become realities! If you decide to take the old hacksaw to the "beater", I hope you'll post some photos along the way as it takes its transitional journey!

[Tnfalconer]

Tnfalconer - then "assuming" all those things . . . :-) . . . I would say "go for it" if that is what you want and what appeals to you. Life is too short to not take chances once in a while and make your fantasies become realities! If you decide to take the old hacksaw to the "beater", I hope you'll post some photos along the way as it takes its transitional journey!

Well, I'm a gunsmith so it will be less of a hacksaw and more of a Bridgeport milling machine but the same principle I guess....HA!

[45 Dragoon]

I say . . . . . . . . . GO FOR IT !!!!! Lol!! (Hey Tnfalconer!!)

Pics along the way would be cool!!

[Tnfalconer]

HEY MIKE!......I thought you might be along after a bit.

[contender1]

Ruger has discontinued the Old Army, and many lament that fact.
While the numbers manufactured are in excess of 100,000, in just the blued guns alone,,, they are much more plentiful than the OM 44 Flattop (at about 29,860,) and even the OM 45 Colt (at 23,031.)

But, one big difference in the ROA vs these other guns. They shoot Black Powder. As such, I've seen far too many that the owners who shot them failed to properly clean them & ruined the cylinders, or the barrels, or both. So, while many more were made,,, many are abused.

If I were going to customize a ROA,,, I'd search out a slightly abused one to modify & restore.

There are over 15 variations of the ROA in blued guns alone,,, to the collectors,, that can mean a lot. So, if a nice one is going to be the project one,,, do a little research before you chop it up. You may find your project gun is worth more than you think.

[mnewcomb59]

Somebody converts these to 5 shot 50 cals! That would be too cool to have one converted.

[Good Cheer]

A ROA that uses .49 round ball would be just fine as could be.
But hey, for years been wishing someone produced a good revolver that used .53 round ball.

[Lloyd Smale]

had two of them. Only mod I did to them was to send them to dave clements. He used to bore the cyl holes a bit deaper and they would hold about 7 more grains of powder. Don't know if he still does it or not. that little bit more and a custom mold that made a 220 grain wfn made it a decent whitetail gun. Never did shoot one with it though.

[Erich]

I'd sure love to see how it comes out: that would be a really handy gun. I love how accurate my (boring, 7.5") ROA is.

[Tnfalconer]

I've given thought to selling or trading them off for something a little more suitable to what I am needing but I can't resist the urge to play with them a little. I have shot both and they shoot well but they are just too long and the grip feels wrong in my hand. I played with a nice new set of Ruger bisley vaqueros yesterday and it was about the best "feeling" single action I have put in my hand. I have a little time and work to get to before starting on these guys so I will let time decide what becomes of them. If it gets around time that work slows a little and let's me do something other than leatherwork I may go ahead and start in. In the mean time if I find a buyer for them I might just sell them and get a couple of bisleys.

[flint45]

I say go for it have fun and make something you like . Then show us the finished product.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I bought a SS Ruger OA in 1993 and while I appreciated it's design and strength the beast was just too heavy for me to shoot one handed. I think maybe Ruger was afraid some idiot would pour a chamber full of Bullseye in an OA and let her rip. I have owned Colt and Remington C&B pistols and they didn't weigh near that much and they didn't explode. I had an original Rogers & Spencer and used it in Blue & Grey matches with no trouble. I think they could have cut a half pound off the OA and made it a lot more fun to shoot. I can't imagine trying to wear one on my hip.

[Tnfalconer]

So it begins....

Slight grip reduction, barrel shortened to 4.5".

Next is more involved with a sight cut for a brass vaquero blade sight, smoothing all the metal back out and most likely a new set of buffalo horn grips. Bisley hammers are on the way. I will be cutting and tig welding the bisley contour onto the ROA hammer. Well a good friend will actually be doing it for me. Then they head off to Mike at GOONS for a little action work.

I can tell you right from the get go it feels so much better in my hand. Points well and I think this was a very good decision. More pics later.

[45 Dragoon]

Snazzy!!!

Mike

[Tnfalconer]

That's just round one of construction!

[birch]

That kicks all sorts of @##.

[contender1]

"I bought a SS Ruger OA in 1993 and while I appreciated it's design and strength the beast was just too heavy for me to shoot one handed. I think maybe Ruger was afraid some idiot would pour a chamber full of Bullseye in an OA and let her rip."

Bill designed the ROA around the idea of the Remington BP handgun. Look at the two designs. The longer bbl is to allow BP to burn properly & give good velocities. The heavier frame is a result of using similar sizes as the Blackhawk line.

[45 Dragoon]

Contender1,
There's more Rogers&Spencer than Remie in there. . . . .

Mike

[contender1]

True,, but he was an admirer of the Remington"s looks & top strap,,,, and said so on several occasions. I got that info from a guy who worked on the ROA a bit with him.

[smkummer]

Your loading lever may be too short to be useful. If so, you will need to load the cylinder outside of the gun frame with a special tool.

[Plastikosmd]

Here is my 50 cal conversion w shorted barrel. Fun gun, set next to an original colt for comparison

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WbmtNvLVzGQlJUCjUbn1BZ1JtAtLt7GcdLZcnDu0ULceepJaNv LQ-fabF1LlwqbYeWv4GfbdS0CIsP-xEBuPJJT68aNu_F4bpdg2eGYIvoMiU__eeLkM1ssEUh-hP9x4YgJoWlbjq2Qxo-v3bnGRNrLxjYdH2wzJEdIZRqIB0Xa68jNJKwm03wJbocI1kSx4 ToVJWpltWrMItIsjnxN3VlAgNIY2CbB6XIF11o4Xk5TwKZtzT3 OAhZlWNBA1dRcvIDqZWYQrma-utrnVwHbCnSp0xxBNbzC_85IUqeEydCP1mImosjHQlF_V6x7xx kttHv8Cani3m55bu7HT8vXGFp3UJEXUbqBnVDeCxXBwrlyycd_ 2p12n6jEEqMjHjH4G9qbck7Ttx975sldseMn6KECJJMtvz3TGN 6aGI5k4uw_bYHu7HtjuLJmZqc6gtaUKfun0O_UI_TJDOXh1dez bQ01n23lQM-pITpnpujHiSNT1EnB8Yah5eVsim4ElWDsVfh5JRYKWwLXG0f_W XKzgA9XNxIzr1vBH8sCQ6Gh1MsraFgfH7MvgVOFmb-sPUyxOJg_ADkEXAUg1HUe1Yawz5fUHQlyrdjfsO8t18swUoQW2 RpXc7tsD=w750-h692-no

[Dan Cash]

Your loading lever may be too short to be useful. If so, you will need to load the cylinder outside of the gun frame with a special tool.

Should not be a problem. If too short as is, make a telescoping forward lever portion that will slide forward when unlatched for ramming.

[Tnfalconer]

I will be loading on a press with a spare cylinder in reserve. No issue at all. I actually prefer it to loading with the lever.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Very cool! Looking forward to more pictures. Mike Beliveau (Youtube channel duelist1954) has a similar snub nosed cap and ball gun, but I think he started with a Remington Army model revolver. Everything I have read about Goon's Gun Works indicates he is the best in the business for cap gun work.

[45 Dragoon]

A big ol THANKS there 2ndAmendmentNut!!

Mike

[gandydancer]

I had an old worn out 357 Ruger flat top rebuilt to 44 special with a 4 & 5'8ths barrel with a Birds head grip it was a great shooter But I hated that Birds Head grip. Had it changed to a Bisley grip. My son still has it. It was built by Andy Horvath in the early 90's. Joe Bowman the master of triggernometry & trick shooter used it at Blue Trail Range in wallingford Ct at one of his shows in the 90's He liked it so well he tried to buy it from me, Joe was a great showman he will be missed,

[Tnfalconer]

I really like the bisley grip as well, I especially like the fall on the hammers. I have worked a little more on the old army with a new fixed front sight added and am now working on the hammer. I'll remove the cocking lever from a Ruger bisley hammer and cut it into the stock old army hammer. The reduction that I did on the plow grip of the old army feels really good in my hand. A new set of slim grips will finish it off. I'm making a jig to cut down the hammer now so I can repeat the process on a second gun if I need to. The radius on the bisley cocking lever is 13/16" so it's a pretty straight forward thing. Mill a 13/16 curve into the Old army hammer and remove the cocking lever of the bisley. Weld or solder them together. I will admit that my silver solder skills are somewhat lacking but my clean up and finishing skills are improving....HA! The front sight I chose to use was a 3/16x 1" woodruff key. The shape is nearly perfect with only a light cut needed for a straighter approach angle on the front. I will work on it a little more this afternoon and get some more pics for you guys. I tried to bevel the cylinder a little as well and let me tell you, that is some hard, HARD steel they use there. I put a slight bevel to it and left it alone.