Sanity Check 9mm Cast 147s

[Dirtjumper895]

All,

I'm new to the forum, and have done quite a bit of reading as a lurker since I've got into casting. From what I've read, it seems like most leading issues are caused by undersized boolits, with less probable causes being lead hardness and lubrication.

I am currently having leading with my 9mm P226. The barrel slugs out at 0.3562-0.3564". During my initial loading, I was getting pretty considerable leading. I have since chased the issue down to the boolits being swaged down when seating to ~0.352". I have since gotten Lathesmith to turn me a custom expander at 0.356", and that seems to be helping a lot with the boolits not swaging down when loading. The lead I am using is dead soft ( pure lead) and am powder coating with Harbor Freight Red. The powder coated projectiles pass the smash test. The mold is an Accurate 35-147c mold and casts at 0.358" prior to coating. I then powder coat and size to 0.3575".

Using the custom expander, after seating, closing the case mouth to 0.379", and pulling a boolit, the boolits are 0.3565", so some swaging is still taking place.

I have two outstanding questions:

1) Would a smooth sided projectile be better for powder coating when sized 0.001" or less larger than bore size?

2) Should I increase the diameter or the lead hardness at this point? I assume the harder the lead, the less swaging will go on and the resultant diameter will also increase.

Just for info, my load is 3.3Gr Alliant Bullseye with the projectile seated at 1.145" OAL. They chrono graph approx. 900 fps, and are ~23ksi according to QL.

Thanks!

[jcren]

I would increase the hardness a touch for a 9. I don't have a 9, but load for 380, 38 and 45 and have found that my 380's are more accurate with 50/50 clip-on wheel weights, I assume this is because the softer lead doesn't grip the rifling as well. Don't worry about smooth sided molds, I pc everything including 30-06 and not a speciality mold in the place. Only time I see the smooth mold being an asset would be a max pressure effort where every bit of bearing surface counts.

[454PB]

I agree, add a little antimony, wheel weight alloy is about right. I size traditionally lubed boolits to .357", but I've found that PC'd boolits shoot fine at .356" and not a hint of leading. I own four 9mm's.

[Bzcraig]

I agree to up hardness. I've gotten to the point that all my handgun loads are 50/50 ww/pure.

[rancher1913]

I had to go to a fcd to solve that problem

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

Just for info, my load is 3.3Gr Alliant Bullseye with the projectile seated at 1.145" OAL. They chrono graph approx. 900 fps, and are ~23ksi according to QL.
Welcome to the forum Dirtjumper895.

COWW (clip-on wheel weight) is typically 12 BHN
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm
according to this link, COWW is good up to 25Kpsi

I use straight COWW for all my 9mm boolit loads.

[GhostHawk]

I normally run 50 % range scrap and 50% Clip on Wheel weight with an added 1% of tin for higher speed/pressure rounds like rifle bullets.

Fit is king. Get the fit right first. But I would consider adding some wheel weight to your pure. Possibly some tin.

I am one of those who has moved to a .38/.357mag bullet that drops at .358 to .359.

I have been loading those as cast with no problems. But before you cast a thousand of those. Make a dummy bullet with one and make sure it will chamber.

9mm's seem to be all over the place. Some are tight, some are sloppy, some have virtually no lead or freebore. Some bullets will engage the rifling and come to a stop preventing the slide from closing into battery.

Devil is in the details.

Changing your alloy may make a change in your bullet.
Best of luck!

[Smoke4320]

1 no a smooth sided bullet will not change the underlying problem. Your finished size when pulled is .3565 and your barrel is .356 sized giving .005 fit. Too small pulled size
Personally I would go for a 357 expander and a 358 finished sized bullet. ..002 to .003 seems to be much better in 9mm. PS 9mm is one of the hardest to get to not lead
I would also agree with all of the above posters and switch to half COWW and 1-2% tin

[Dirtjumper895]

Thank you all for the replies. I am going to try and up the hardness on my next batch, and hopefully the resultant bullet diameter after seating and pulling will also increase due to less swaging. I have a huge stock (~2k lbs) of soft lead, so I think I am going to try alloying with Superhard Nuggets (30Sb/70Pb) and Tin Wire Cuttings (99.9 Sn).

Using my calculator it looks like 50/50 Pure/WW ( 0.25Sn/1.5Sb/98.1Pb) results in a BHN of around 10. I will shoot for an alloy that results in a BHN 11.3 (0.9Sn/2.7Sb/96.4Pb). I should be able to achieve this by adding 0.2Lbs of Sn, 2Lbs of Superhard, to 20lbs of Pure.

[fredj338]

IMO, the pure lead bullet is causing the issue. With mixed brass, your seated dia is going to vary. So a harder alloy should help. I shoot a lot of 147gr that I cast & PC in several diff guns. I use mostly range scrap, so a bit harder than pure but still pretty soft. I water drop from the PC oven, 15m in 400deg+ may be softening things a bit & with range scrap & get a little bit of surface hardness water dropping.

[smokeater]

Ditto what others are saying. I shoot a 147gr truncated lead bullet at 940 -950fps with a Brinnell hardness of 12 - 14 bhn and in my Glock 19 and Canik TP9SF have absolutely not leading with stock barrels and with no adjustments to my LEE 9mm reloading dies. I have found 12 to 15 bhn serves me well in all my calibers for lead bullets from 700fps to 1100fps with having to resort to gas checks. One tip, I only use Ballistol in the bore of all my guns, may be just a coincidence, but as long as I keep getting the same results, I am not going to change.

[Dirtjumper895]

I finally got out to cast up some 9mm using COWW. I was still waiting on a 60lb box of Linotype to alloy with my pure lead.

I casted the boolits using the COWW. Coated them in Smokes Signal Blue, and sized them with my Lee push through sizer that I had opened up to 0.3575. After about a week of ageing they seemed to grow closer to 0.358. They worked well in my P226.

Is it normal for boolits to grow slightly with age? I didn't seem to notice this with the pure lead.

I've also got a Sig MPX that I am using these in. The barrel slugs at 0.3548-0.3552. Using a bullet sized to .358, some failed to go into battery. After cycling the action, the bullet was sized down in the throat to 0.3575". I've ordered another push through sizer die, I'm going to try loading boolits for this MPX at 0.3565 and see how they go.

[Moonie]

I shoot the Accurate Molds 147Y COWW powder coated and sized to .357. I use the 38S&W expander in my 9mm dies and have no leading issues.

[sigep1764]

Lathesmith made my expander 358. After springbuck, it leaves the brass open to 357. I size the Elco boolit and the Accurate 359 120b TC boolit to 358 and it works perfectly. It may vary in your guns, though. You might just try seating a little deeper to clear the shorter leade in your MPX. Drop the charge back a little as well with a deeper seated boolit.

[runfiverun]

antimony will give you a little growth as it age hardens.