The man who says, "There is no God....

[Der Gebirgsjager]

is a fool."

200465200466

The Cascades, 4,600 ft. level, 7-24-17.

[retread]

Amen to that!

[Boaz]

I agree !

[buckwheatpaul]

I know that I am committed to God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.....my life is simpler and I know that the Holy Trinity is walking with a protecting me daily!

[GhostHawk]

I see his hand "Everywhere" from the glowing sunsets, the cathedral like forests, the jeweled insects, to the wandering waters.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEE5MvoT3oI

[square butte]

The man who says there is no God is blind, deaf, is without heart to feel, and has no mind with which to reason

[Pine Baron]

The man who says there is no God, just hasn't met Him yet.

[OS OK]

The man who says there is no God is blind, deaf, is without heart to feel, and has no mind with which to reason

but...isn't that how we all start out life ...some worse than others?

Mankind is a pretty dangerous and self serving herd of animal, especially the 'Alphas'...then Christ enters the heart and life really begins from there...liken to starting out life as a bud on a thorny rose bush...then Christ Jesus and then we blossom.

[Ickisrulz]

Do you suppose animals have a consciousness of God? I have always wondered.

Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. (Matthew 10:29, ESV).

[OS OK]

We could sit around the campfire and chew on that question till the sun comes up...but, I think they have a spirit essence.

[GhostHawk]

I think some are much more "aware" than others.

I don't think an oyster has eyes, does it? What does it know?
On the other hand I had the pleasure of living with a Parakeet named "zeke" for almost a decade. He spent a lot of time sitting on my shoulder, muttering away under his breath. Sometimes when I could get just the right amount of not listening but aware. I would hear things that shocked and amazed me.

Like the time he was in his cage with me in the living room. The cats walked by, tails in the air, staring at him of course.

"Sharks,SHARKS!" Yeah buddy, those are sharks, they'd eat ya.

Or the time when I was playing a computer game, fallout. I had just shot a monster from about a quarter mile away. "Big green Monster!" Yes zeke, that was a big green monster!

"Where is?"

Is gone, I killed it.

So I walked over to it. Long whistle. "Dead?" Yes zeke, dad kills the big green monster.
Dead big green monster, long whistle. Big daddy!

Yes zeke, I AM the man.

Smart, ohhh yes. He saw a lot, he spent a LOT of time on my shoulder. He lived well. Had the run of a 10x12 room, it was all his. Cage was for sleeping and to hold bird feeders, water, and toys if dad was away.

The last night, he was muttering away again. I turned off the computer, getting ready to go to bed.
"Whistle, Bye"

Night zeke (scratching my head, that was a first"

" Bonzai!"

And in the morning when I turned on the lights he was laying flat on his back on the bottom of the cage,

I believe he knew. And I believe that for very good birds like zeke there has to be either the chance of another life, another turn of the wheel. Or a place to rest and wait for loved ones to come home. At least I hope so. I do not believe a merciful God would not have a plan for those special guys who come into our lives.

Miss you Zeke!

[Hickok]

The one true God, the God Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of Israel, my God!

A man who denies God has already condemned himself.

[w5pv]

Amen to that also

[Blackwater]

Thanks, and AMEN! I've often wondered what folks who don't and won't believe, think about, see and perceive whenever they look at a beautiful sunrise or sunset, or the night time sky, with its wondrous stars. If there's no God, there certainly OUGHT to be, with so much beauty in this finite, physical world He created for us! Evidence of His existence abounds, and is all around us. One has to really dedicate one's self to disbelief, to carry it for a lifetime! And all one has to do to believe is simply look about, and then hold our one's hand, and accept the most wonderful gift a man can ever know! Indeed! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever! Amen.

[Hickok]

What is there in Hell that people want?

There is a Heaven to gain and a Hell to loose.

Jesus did it all, gave it all, and the offer is for all.

By refusing or denying Jesus and what He did in His birth, life, death and resurrection is an eternal death sentence. Denying, or refusing to believe the "Good News", the Gospel is calling God a liar, Jesus a liar, the Holy Ghost a liar.

It is saying, "It didn't happen, this can't be, doesn't matter, I don't believe it, there are other ways to salvation."

Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation. God will accept no substitutes, no excuses, no denials.

Jesus Christ, is my Savior, my King, my Lord, my kinsman Redeemer, my God!

I praise and thank God for sending the Holy Ghost into my sinful life to convict me and draw me to salvation through faith in Jesus Christ!

[Boaz]

What is there in Hell that people want?

There is a Heaven to gain and a Hell to loose.

Jesus did it all, gave it all, and the offer is for all.

By refusing or denying Jesus and what He did in His birth, life, death and resurrection is an eternal death sentence. Denying, or refusing to believe the "Good News", the Gospel is calling God a liar, Jesus a liar, the Holy Ghost a liar.

It is saying, "It didn't happen, this can't be, doesn't matter, I don't believe it, there are other ways to salvation."

Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation. God will accept no substitutes, no excuses, no denials.

Jesus Christ, is my Savior, my King, my Lord, my kinsman Redeemer, my God!

I praise and thank God for sending the Holy Ghost into my sinful life to convict me and draw me to salvation through faith in Jesus Christ!

Amen .

[castalott]

I loved that video.... and this discussion too!

My teaching in college went something like this.... a zillon years ago some inorganic chemicals were struck by lightning and made the first simple life. What this first simple life ate or interacted with was never discussed. The wonderful complexity and interaction of everything in the solar system is an accident. Evolution ( big E) accounts for everything you see here today.

Now I do not doubt evolution (small e) exists. We do it all the time with roses and race horses and corn plants- breeding to produce the best ( we've bred peaches to where they grow well, are sturdy, transport well, and have 1/10 the flavor of God's peaches....) But I digress....

This world is insanely complex (at least to the mentally challenged like me). First we thought atoms were the smallest bits of matter. Then there were 3 parts...Then each part had many parts. Some of these parts are matter and some are energy...some are both depending on when and how you look at them. If you are not a lunatic when you start...you will be when you finish...


I can see I've made a mess of this. I am just in wonder..in awe... from physics to chemistry to biology to music to the beauty that this place is.... I'll never be smart enough to understand.... I can only look at things and say, " Oh My God...how?"

[dverna]

Until you really suffer, I do not believe you will find God. That is what did it for me. Intelligence has almost nothing to do with it. In fact, intelligence can and will get in the way.

[castalott]

Until you really suffer, I do not believe you will find God. That is what did it for me. Intelligence has almost nothing to do with it. In fact, intelligence can and will get in the way.

This may be the best post on this subject I have ever read....

[Boaz]

If you want to find GOD you will have to seek him . He 'may' reveal himself but most likely not . Our bible continually tells us to seek him and it's not like looking for Bigfoot . He is real and right beside you if you can have FAITH . Faith is the key . GOD has never turned down anyone seriously seeking him through faith .

[Boaz]

Until you really suffer, I do not believe you will find God. That is what did it for me. Intelligence has almost nothing to do with it. In fact, intelligence can and will get in the way.

Don you are 100% correct . If it gets bad enough you WILL seek GOD . But GOD will require faith not just someone looking for a one time favor . He knows what is in your heart .

[wv109323]

What is the alternative to in believing in a God?
Believe in the "Big Bang"? Now that takes a lot faith because that theory can be shot all to pieces with facts.
One of the atheist said that 167 million generations ago your grandpaw was a fish. Yeah I just can't reason that.

[Blackwater]

:) I understand, but increasingly, it seems the "Big Bang" is indeed the way that God chose to bring all that is into existence. It's been theorized that all the universe was crammed into a ball less than the size of one, single atom, but that strikes me as less credible than that it came into being from nothingness. But that's just my take on it, and science marches on. My great argument with current science is that it's not getting its word out very well at all. Let someone come up with some obviously willful "theory" that God couldn't possibly exist, and it's all over the various media. But let science come up with many, many, many resons TO believe, and .... it's uniformly ignored. Fox News has given voice on occasion to guys like Hugh Ross and some others who ably opine that God MUST be there on account of all that science has discovered over the last 50 years or so, but even that is pretty short shrift for such a universally consequential message! It's not that science hasn't progressed, and progressively come up with more and more and more findings that all seem to indicate that God MUST be involved in the creation and maintenance of the universe we live in, it's simply that this info hasn't been spread nearly as well or as thoroughly as those "opinions" and "theories" of the atheists.

We know SO much more than we used to, back when many proclaimed that science was "proving" that God could not possibly and rationally exist! But the big problem is, the info isn't being disseminated effectively, and many STILL think that science and religion are at odds with one another, rather than each supporting the other, as is really the case now.

Darwin's theories are increasingly being disproven, and even in his own field of archaeology, it has been pretty well proven that life does NOT develop slowly by minute changes in life forms, but that it developed in a veritable explosion of new species within a very short amount of time, geologically speaking. So Darwinism, as originally outlined, has been SO overwhelmingly disproven that those who are dead set on STILL believing a very worn out theory, have taken to "modifying" the theory so as to allow for what has proven true over the last century and more since Darwin first published his "Origin of Species."

And yes, details matter whenever you're REALLY searching for the simple, plain, honest Truth! Most folks don't read very many, if ANY, books after they graduate from high school or college. This is really unfortunate because our knowledge is literally "exploding" at a rate faster than it's ever expanded before! Truly fascinating and sometimes puzzling things have been proven to occur, and only very few folks ever get to even read about it! But .... "Seek and ye shall find," and I long ago began believing that science would eventually come right up to the threshold of PROVING that God indeed does and MUST exist. And so it's proven out, and for some time now.

In another post, I link to a youtube video about matters like these, and at one point in it, it's observed that the universe seems to be DESIGNED so that we CAN discover these "proofs of God!" And in case many haven't noticed, atheists have kind'a distanced themselves now, from CLAIMING that science disproves God's existence. How much greater indication do people need for them to know that atheism is a simple matter of the human will deciding it doesn't WANT to believe, and NOT a "rational conclusion!"

I think it's kind'a interesting, at the very least, that these revelations of science come at this particular juncture in time, when so many are denying and doubting, and when believers are separating themselves out in ever smaller groups so as to be almost totally ineffective at achieving any real "pull" in our government! And a gov't that turns its back on God, will soon have God turn His back on THEM! God forbid that day ever comes to the USA!!!! But it can. Other once great nations have fallen when they got too haughty, and credited themselves rather than the blessings of God for their stature and plenty! We won't fare one whit better if WE follow that pattern. And what scares me is that history DOES indeed "repeat itself," and when it does, it always seems to be the same old human weaknesses and foibles that tends to create these great falls. People also tend to think that however things are now, if they're good, will ALWAYS stay that way. This is so obviously willful and wishful thinking that it ought never to exist, but .... I point you to history. "Oh what a horrid web we weave, when first we practice to deceive," especially when we deceive our own selves! I pray for this country, and a great revival, and a return to the Lord, and all that's good. Without it, our demise is likely not nearly as far off as we'd like to think.

[Ickisrulz]

Until you really suffer, I do not believe you will find God. That is what did it for me. Intelligence has almost nothing to do with it. In fact, intelligence can and will get in the way.

Not everyone responds the same way to circumstances. Some people draw near to God in bad times. Other people forsake God in bad times.

The mature Christian sticks with God through it all.

"I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content." Philippians 4:11

[castalott]

I've been low enough that the only way to look was up... Dale

[GhostHawk]

Me too dale.

I have 2 brothers and a sister who are successful. Well off, big houses, business's, law firms. Friends all over, listened to by the leaders, movers, and shakers.

And then there are guys like me who define success as getting up one more time than we are knocked down.

I'm not complaining, my house is paid for, we owe no one anything except the City of Fargo made us cut down a cottonwood tree in our front yard last year. 27 foot around it at the base. So they say I owe them 2600$ for the tree cutting.

I say you can tack in onto my specials and get it back over 20 years. Maybe, if we are still here. Or maybe you can get it from my Grandkids if they ever sell the house.

Yeah we could pay it off tomorrow. Not giving them the satisfaction. Come on end of the world, hurry up. I wanna see the City of Fargo go belly up so I can flip them the bird one last time before I go.

Last man standing, that is the plan. And if I don't make it, well its been a good ride.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Curious--did you get the wood, or did they take it?

[Blackwater]

You know, that could be a really interesting legal battle! If they took the wood, then they may have had a right to cut the tree if it was interfering with some vital community service, but they did NOT have the right to "steal" the wood from you! Might be a good way to "play" with them, and get them to cancel your "debt" to them. Too often, these idiotic things get to be ego matches, and when they want to quibble about the "little things," sometimes, your own quibbling about some OTHER "little things" can tire them out, and make them involuntarily quit their nonsense. Sometimes, at least!

[GhostHawk]

They took the wood but waived the dumping fee's for it.

In the end I think it all boils down to a nosy fussy neighbor who is a neat freak. I caught her on my property several times and threatened to have her arrested for tresspass.

So she has taken to calling the city of fargo when she wants something.
Seems every year another letter arrives telling me I have to do something, change something, or stop doing something. I think she has been calling them and complaining.

The next one comes I am going to get a lawyer and get all the paperwork on all those complaints and go before a judge looking for an injunction.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Very interesting. Well, what I was thinking is that wood has value. Doesn't matter if it's only firewood, it has a value, and it was a big tree. And it was your tree, and your wood, so I think that they've been paid. Even-Steven. I bet a good lawyer would see it the same way, and a letter to the city council (or whatever you've got there) laying out the principle involved and threatening to charge them for the wood would soon bring agreement.

And let's not forget, in addition to the value of the wood, the ascetic and sentimental values the tree presented, the value of which is hard to calculate.

[Bigslug]

Sunrises & sunsets: Colorful displays that call attention to the fact that God raised an often inadequate shield of atmosphere and magnetism against the lethal solar and interstellar radiation that God is constantly shooting at us.

The theological implication then is that God is either schizophrenic or there's more than one god who are at odds with each other. In the latter case, it would seem that the god who made Earth is the lesser of the two.

[OS OK]

Sunrises & sunsets: Colorful displays that call attention to the fact that God raised an often inadequate shield of atmosphere and magnetism against the lethal solar and interstellar radiation that God is constantly shooting at us.

The theological implication then is that God is either schizophrenic or there's more than one god who are at odds with each other. In the latter case, it would seem that the god who made Earth is the lesser of the two.

It's entertaining sometimes the things you hear from an atheist...you might just be right on about some things...

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


One third of the Angels fell from the heavens long ago...so what do we really know about 'who and how many' did what?
All of that played out in the 'Antediluvian' world that is almost completely kept hidden from the human race...sorta like Giants.
They have been dug up all over the world, especially America. They too have been secreted away from mankind. If it were common knowledge it would point to the truth in Scripture and bring daily Glory to the Father in Heaven.

You don't think the 'Prince of the Power of the Air' is going to stand for that do you. At at least 'not' while he is playing the little 'g' god and we're still behind enemy lines.

Look up and rejoice...our Savior is near, even at the door! Hallelujah!

[Ickisrulz]

Sunrises & sunsets: Colorful displays that call attention to the fact that God raised an often inadequate shield of atmosphere and magnetism against the lethal solar and interstellar radiation that God is constantly shooting at us.

The theological implication then is that God is either schizophrenic or there's more than one god who are at odds with each other. In the latter case, it would seem that the god who made Earth is the lesser of the two.

This is an ancient theological conclusion. Since seemingly contradictory things happen, there must be multiple gods.

This was countered by God, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." Although the Bible teaches there is a Triune God, the members within the Trinity have a single goal and totally complimentary methods.

[Pine Baron]

Bigslug, your post brings to mind the four blind men trying to describe an elephant. You seem to be describing the tail.

[Blackwater]

Slug, nobody here can make you believe, nor should anyone try to. But if you really want the simple Truth, all you have to do is ask. If you continue to sit and declare that you already HAVE all the "truth" that you want, then you're beyond even God's reach, because He has set Himself a rule, that allows ALL people to decide for themselves whom they'll follow and whether they even WANT the real Truth or not. Man has been declaring that God doesn't exist for millenea, but even science now, comes right up to the threshold of proving that He MUST exist. But nobody has to accept that. All knowledge is voluntary, and we can accept or reject it, as it suits us to do so. The only thing I can't figure out is why anyone would prefer false info to the reality that is so easily accessible. But there are a lot of things I don't understand. But the big thing, I DO have down pretty well pat. And that's enough for me. But each of us gets to make these decisions for our own selves, in our own way, for our own reasons, and in our own good time.

I truly wish you well. You're too intelligent and daring a man to maintain your atheism forever. I just hope you live long enough to see what's right there in front of you. God be with you, whether you accept Him right now or not.

[Hickory]

GOD speaks to his followers and they hear Him.
The Devil speaks to his children and they hear him too.

[OS OK]

GOD speaks to his followers and they hear Him.
The Devil speaks to his children and they hear him too.

Yep...but they never tell the children that the Devil is the FATHER OF ALL LIES !

[Bigslug]

Heck, that wasn't even one of my particularly atheistic posts; that one is more "The polytheistic Greeks may have had a better grasp on the universe than the Judeo/Christian/Muslim sects do."

So more of a question to the pre-conceived notions of monotheism, if you will. Polytheism doesn't particularly work for me either, but it smells more like truth than Man is the Apple of the One God's Eye. Even if it was all divinely constructed, there's a fair number of pointers that it wasn't necessarily all divinely constructed FOR US, which in turn points to the possibility of multiple contractors. OR, we're a WAY smaller cog in the One's great machine that even the most humble give us credit for, and sucking up to the boss is pointless. Hence, no desire to spend time on Him/Them whether He/They are real or not.

So, now y'all know what might go through an atheist's mind when contemplating solar events through dark lenses and SPF-50.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There is no doubt that you are entitled to your opinion. But you'll have to forgive those of us who are believers, because to us His presence and creation is so obvious.

I recently moved to the mountains, where I took the sunset photos. So far only one neighbor has made himself known. He came by to visit and we sat on the front porch consuming a couple of beverages. I made a remark about the beauty of God's creation and he came back with, "I don't believe in God." I replied, with a wave of the arm, "How do you suppose all of this came about? Just an accident?"
He kind of choked a little, hesitated, then said, "Well, I think there's a power. I think the power is all around us. But I don't think it's God."

Some folks, as they say, "can't see the forest for the trees." God's presence and creation is undeniable.

[OS OK]

The Holy Spirit encourages us to pray for them...any more, that's all they get from me.

I think it'd be more productive arguing with a stump...at least the stump lacks the arrogance that the ignorant have an excess of.

The day is coming and is ever closer when the 'winnowing will begin'.

[claude]

BS, You are a blessed man and totally unaware by whom you are blessed.

This none existent I AM you strenuously deny has graciously cloaked you in ignorance so your innocence is intact. Why He has chosen to have you remain unhearing and unseeing is anyone's guess, possibly because you wouldn't be able to make it on faith alone, I don't know.

What I do know is trying to convince you that there is indeed One God, Supreme, Self Evident, is a waste of time so I won't go there. I will however let you in on some knowledge that will manifest itself in an undeniable manner, the day Christ returns, the cloak of ignorance will be removed, and you will see.

Frankly, I don't care if you believe me or not, I am not sent to make you believe, but to sound the warning, to plant the seed, to tell you, you will believe, and you will bow your knee.

You will then begin a 1000 year period of learning discipline, and after that time is finished should you decide "It ain't for you" , this same I AM will let you choose to end your existence and you will be erased from all time, for and aft, as though you had never been. Additionally, those of use who remain will rejoice with you in your victory because you would be unhappy in heaven and we wouldn't want someone all unhappy and negative ruining it for the rest of us.

In closing, enjoy the trip, I wish you well.

[Traffer]

The man who says "there is no God" should watch this:
https://youtu.be/I2i824Vq708

[Hickory]

Bigslug

If I am wrong in my belief in God, I lose nothing.
If you are wrong in what you believe, you lose everything.

[Traffer]

Not everyone responds the same way to circumstances. Some people draw near to God in bad times. Other people forsake God in bad times.

The mature Christian sticks with God through it all.

"I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content." Philippians 4:11

I was camped on Psalm 107 for a spell in my life. I think it is appropriate for this conversation:
Psa 107:1 Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good; his love endures forever.
Psa 107:2 Let the redeemed of the LORD say this-- those he redeemed from the hand of the foe,
Psa 107:3 those he gathered from the lands, from east and west, from north and south.
Psa 107:4 Some wandered in desert wastelands, finding no way to a city where they could settle.
Psa 107:5 They were hungry and thirsty, and their lives ebbed away.
Psa 107:6 Then they cried out to the LORD in their trouble, and he delivered them from their distress.
Psa 107:7 He led them by a straight way to a city where they could settle.
Psa 107:8 Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men,
Psa 107:9 for he satisfies the thirsty and fills the hungry with good things.
Psa 107:10 Some sat in darkness and the deepest gloom, prisoners suffering in iron chains,
Psa 107:11 for they had rebelled against the words of God and despised the counsel of the Most High.
Psa 107:12 So he subjected them to bitter labor; they stumbled, and there was no one to help.
Psa 107:13 Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble, and he saved them from their distress.
Psa 107:14 He brought them out of darkness and the deepest gloom and broke away their chains.
Psa 107:15 Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men,
Psa 107:16 for he breaks down gates of bronze and cuts through bars of iron.
Psa 107:17 Some became fools through their rebellious ways and suffered affliction because of their iniquities.
Psa 107:18 They loathed all food and drew near the gates of death.
Psa 107:19 Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble, and he saved them from their distress.
Psa 107:20 He sent forth his word and healed them; he rescued them from the grave.
Psa 107:21 Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men.
Psa 107:22 Let them sacrifice thank offerings and tell of his works with songs of joy.
Psa 107:23 Others went out on the sea in ships; they were merchants on the mighty waters.
Psa 107:24 They saw the works of the LORD, his wonderful deeds in the deep.
Psa 107:25 For he spoke and stirred up a tempest that lifted high the waves.
Psa 107:26 They mounted up to the heavens and went down to the depths; in their peril their courage melted
away.
Psa 107:27 They reeled and staggered like drunken men; they were at their wits' end.
Psa 107:28 Then they cried out to the LORD in their trouble, and he brought them out of their distress.
Psa 107:29 He stilled the storm to a whisper; the waves of the sea were hushed.
Psa 107:30 They were glad when it grew calm, and he guided them to their desired haven.
Psa 107:31 Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men.
Psa 107:32 Let them exalt him in the assembly of the people and praise him in the council of the elders.
Psa 107:33 He turned rivers into a desert, flowing springs into thirsty ground,
Psa 107:34 and fruitful land into a salt waste, because of the wickedness of those who lived there.
Psa 107:35 He turned the desert into pools of water and the parched ground into flowing springs;
Psa 107:36 there he brought the hungry to live, and they founded a city where they could settle.
Psa 107:37 They sowed fields and planted vineyards that yielded a fruitful harvest;
Psa 107:38 he blessed them, and their numbers greatly increased, and he did not let their herds diminish.
Psa 107:39 Then their numbers decreased, and they were humbled by oppression, calamity and sorrow;
Psa 107:40 he who pours contempt on nobles made them wander in a trackless waste.
Psa 107:41 But he lifted the needy out of their affliction and increased their families like flocks.
Psa 107:42 The upright see and rejoice, but all the wicked shut their mouths.
Psa 107:43 Whoever is wise, let him heed these things and consider the great love of the LORD.

[Boaz]

Self professed atheists shun scripture like the plague . It means nothing to them .Only a believer can accept and believe the word of GOD . You only force them not to seek but to defend and strengthen their non belief to themselves , therefore beyond giving them GOD's offer of salvation is actually driving them farther away . Reinforcement of his offer of forgiveness , acceptance , love and eternal life is the only thing you can provide in their condition . With tv , radio , relatives , internet , out reach programs , churches whatever they have heard the gospel in this country . The choice they have made is their own Since GOD himself gives that choice I respect their right to make it .

That does not mean I like it . I wish , I hope and I pray they are able to find GOD . But they must seek him but until then I will give our GOD's offer of salvation and try to help any that seek him . When they find GOD we are here ! We all rejoice in their discovery and help them . I have seen it in this Chapel .

[Blackwater]

I understand how you meant it, Boaz, but actually, only a non-believer CAN receeive the Holy Spirit, for we believers are supposed to already HAVE it! Just a tiny technical thing, but thought it ought to be posted. You know I love and respect you.

[Boaz]

I understand how you meant it, Boaz, but actually, only a non-believer CAN receeive the Holy Spirit, for we believers are supposed to already HAVE it! Just a tiny technical thing, but thought it ought to be posted. You know I love and respect you.

I never made mention of receiving the Holy Spirit . But I will not argue , go back and reread .

[Blackwater]

Well, Slug, you've provided a lot of declarations there, and all of them need to be addressed in fairness to both you and the board. I'll deal with them one by one:

Bigslug: Heck, that wasn't even one of my particularly atheistic posts; that one is more "The polytheistic Greeks may have had a better grasp on the universe than the Judeo/Christian/Muslim sects do.

BW: It really doesn't matter what you believe or where you get your ideas from. What MATTERS is what's True, and what's not.

Slug: So more of a question to the pre-conceived notions of monotheism, if you will.

BW: When you use the term "pre-conceived" as though you advocate that YOUR views are NOT "pre-conceived!" I think that's quite a stretch, don't you? You always only seek to impose your views, and never really defend them, other than to state it's what you've concluded personally, and on your own. You've never said that you've even done any real searching for the real Truth. You've just DECLARED what your views are, and have never said what the basis is for them - WHY you believe as you do - EXCEPT to point out that you've heard some things from other people, and seen a little of the world, and have used that ONLY as the "evidence" upon which you base your disbelief. I'd like to submit that if you HAD ever really sought the Truth, you COULD have found it, and yet may, if you drop the haughtiness in favor of a serious inquiry into what is REALLY real, and what is not, and is just willful thinking. But it's your decision entirely. Always and forever. And BTW, that word "forever" just MIGHT be a very real motive to do some genuine searching. But like all else, that' up to you, and you alone and entirely.

Slug: Polytheism doesn't particularly work for me either, but it smells more like truth than Man is the Apple of the One God's Eye. Even if it was all divinely constructed, there's a fair number of pointers that it wasn't necessarily all divinely constructed FOR US, which in turn points to the possibility of multiple contractors. OR, we're a WAY smaller cog in the One's great machine that even the most humble give us credit for, and sucking up to the boss is pointless. Hence, no desire to spend time on Him/Them whether He/They are real or not.

BW: Well, once again, you make assertions without any type, shape or form of backup for them. It's strictly all in your own, personal imagination that you've plucked these concepts, and NOT from any type of even potentially authoritative source. So once again, all you've done is stirred the air with your imagination, and if you're too determined to NOT believe, why is your imagination even important on a board and in a discussion like this? It may give you some warm fuzzies, but it stands out like a pig in a patch of pearls. What motivates you to make such declarations where you KNOW full well that they're not welcome, and cannot have any validity here due to lack of any sort of substantiation? Who and what kind of man would do such a thing?

Slug: So, now y'all know what might go through an atheist's mind when contemplating solar events through dark lenses and SPF-50.

BW: OK. But WHY would we want to know that? Do you think we didn't ALREADY know this? You've made your beliefs perfectly clear many times now. So what? Does that change the price of gas, or the price of milk for baby? Nope. It's just you prancing about, calling attention to yourself and your disbelief. You blaspheme, sir, and you KNOW you do it, and you do it intentionally, and with malevolent intent. And ALL because you fear something that you don't have, that we do - that it does NOT all end at the point of death. This is the only logical explanation for your occasional inserts here - pure ill will, and jealousy that we have something you do not. So if you're jealous, you can't be jealous of "nothing," or of error on our part. Inwardly, you KNOW - and furthermore, you MUST know - that what we have IS real - VERY real - and you just don't have the simple courage and respect for reality to admit it. THAT, sir, is YOUR weakness. NOT ours!

If you came here to investigate Truth, then you'd be welcome. As it is ..... well, let's just say your not on any of our "favorites list." You came here to be disruptive, and draw attention to yourself. OK. You've done that. So NOW what do you have as a result? A childish snicker? A whimsical "attaboy" for an essentially evil and blasphemous act? I hope you get SOMETHING from it, because it's been recorded in the Book of Life, and one day, unless it's all forgiven, you'll have to answer for it. You do NOT get to determine whether or not you'll have to answer for it. That decision was made long, long ago, by a power MUCH greater than your meager imagination!

So why not just leave this Chapel alone, unless and until you REALLY want to seek reality? Getting a little warm fuzzy for disrupting the normal good input here simply CANNOT give you THAT much glee, can it? If you want to search, or ask, bring it here and we'll try to honorably deal with your questions. Otherwise, your words of blasphemy and cowardice simply make you look bad. VERY bad!