Survey - What is your best group so far with cast slugs?

[faustus]

I am hearing again and again that the accuracy with home made slugs is not as good as with manufactured ones. Hmmmmm .... so now I am curious .... what is good accuracy and what is bad .... ?

I guess I am curious what accuracy is possible with cast and reloaded slugs. And I am mostly interested to hear about results out of smooth bore barrels but it would be interesting to hear what people are getting out of rifled barrels as well.

So here is my question: What is your best result so far? What group size do you get consistently at 50 yards or 100yards?

Please reply with the following ....

- Group size in inches:
- Target distance:
- Caliber: 12ga or 20ga?
- Choke:
- Type of slug/mold:
- Other components:
- Shotgun maker and model:

This will be interesting .... :)
Thanks

[Hogtamer]

The one I'll shoot tomorrow!

[faustus]

The ones of tomorrow are always the most accurate .... right?

Well, I will be trying those next week end ... not sure if they will be accurate ... But I will definitely report back with the results ...

200244

[RED333]

- Group size in inches: 7 of 10 on a paper plate
- Target distance: 75 yards
- Caliber: 12ga or 20ga? 12
- Choke: rifled
- Type of slug/mold: Lyman 525
- Other components: wont say, I used tear downs
- Shotgun maker and model: Saiga 12

The next is not cast
- Group size in inches: 6 of 10 on a 2 foot square piece on metal
- Target distance: 75 yards
- Caliber: 12ga or 20ga? 12
- Choke: rifled
- Type of slug/mold: RIO 690 ball
- Other components: factory
- Shotgun maker and model: Saiga 12

[longbow]

So far my best groups run a out 2" from rifled Remington 870 shooting 0.735" round balls and 3" from smoothbore shooting a home cast slug from a home made mould. Several groups from each were shot and all quite consistent.

Best groups at 100 yards from smoothbore so far were with 0.735" round balls and ran about 6" but... no surprise, hard to repeat consistently as the balls tend to pick up a spin from drag and wander so while some groups were good, most had at least one flier and often two or three so groups were more like 10" to 12" overall.

In fairness I have not shot some of the slugs that did well at 50 yards out to 100 yards. Hopefully that is coming.

Components:

- for the most part Fiocchi 2 3/4" hulls
- powder = Blue Dot or SR4756
- primers Win 209
- gun = cut down Cooey 12 ga. cylinder bore with rifle sights
- wads:
- Pacific Verelite for wad slugs
- Winchester (not AA Red!) For wad slugs
- for 0.735" rb's: gas seal cut off shotcup,
1/2" hard card wad, nitro card wads as
required for crimp height, ball. I found
hard card wad columns did best for me.
- the wad slugs from the home made
mould were 525 grs. TC hollow base and
oven heat treated

PC is dead so I'm using my smartphone. Can't see what I'm typing so I hope it makes sense!

Longbow

[KrakenFan69]

The ones of tomorrow are always the most accurate .... right?

Well, I will be trying those next week end ... not sure if they will be accurate ... But I will definitely report back with the results ...

200244

Can you give me some more info on that shell on the right?

Thanks,

Kraken Fan #69

[faustus]

@KrakenFan69, I created a separate thread for the buck & ball loads ... and I answered your question there. Hope that is ok with you. So we can keep this thread for accuracy of slugs ... and the other one for buck & ball loads.

Here the link:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?339590-Buck-amp-Ball-Once-again

[faustus]

@Longbow, ... wow your results with 0.735" round balls are better what I am getting with commercial foster slugs ...

Hmmmm .... I think I have to have a look into those 0.735" round balls molds ....

[Cap'n Morgan]

I am hearing again and again that the accuracy with home made slugs is not as good as with manufactured ones. Hmmmmm .... so now I am curious .... what is good accuracy and what is bad .... ?

This FBI Article (PDF file) list several individual gun writers opinion on what accuracy is acceptable for smoothbore slugs:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/132229NCJRS.pdf

The general opinion seems to be that that a four-inch group at fifty yards is good. My homemade Brenneke slugs will do three-inch groups at fifty yards all day long and six-inch groups at a hundred yards on a very good day.

This guy, Hickok45, is shooting offhand at 230 yards on a man-sized target and the majority of the hits are within what looks to be a 15x20 inch square:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTyCcip-ks

[faustus]

This FBI Article (PDF file) list several individual gun writers opinion on what accuracy is acceptable for smoothbore slugs:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/132229NCJRS.pdf



Thank you for that article .... that was very interesting. Lots of good solid information in a short article.

And now I am curious about your homemade Brenneke slugs .... Would you have more information about those? Is there a mold for Brenneke slugs?

[longbow]

faustus:

I have had very good successes with round balls out to 50+ yards with good loads generally staying at 3" to 4". Stretch the range to 100 yards though and groups tend to open up a lot or at least become inconsistent. I wouldn't hesitate to use them for hunting at 50 yards and maybe out to 70 yards but I would not use them for hunting at 100 yards.

Several others here have reported similar results with round balls from smoothbores.

Just a couple of weeks ago new member Ginsing used some of my 0.662" round balls and posted that he got 4" groups at 40 yards.

Goodsteel posted that he got consistent paper plate sized groups out to 125 yards IIRC but 100 yards anyway with 0.735" RB's which is generally better than I got. Some groups of mine would be 4" to 6" but most had at least one ball and usually more out to at least 6" to 8" from the main group of 3 or 4. Maybe paper plate size but not consistent enough for my liking.

I had good results out of rifled gun as well though it was a borrowed gun and relatively shot test of 15 rounds IIRC.

A few others have reported very good rifled gun accuracy with round balls as well.

In case you can't tell, I like round balls!

I have had some very good accuracy with factory Fosters but have not been able to reproduce that accuracy with home cast and home loaded hollow base slugs... with just a couple of exceptions. That is from smoothbore.

As for Brenneke style slugs, Cap'n Morgan is our shining star there! He's done a terrific job with those. No-one make a mould that I know of but Corbin, I believe has or had a swage set, for making Brenneke style attached wad slugs. Greg Sappington sent me a few of his swaged brenneke style slugs without wads attached. As always, the attached wad is the tricky part. I tried several things with little success. That wad takes a pile of abuse and has to retain is shape when it is attached to the slug or there will be inaccuracy. Hard to do with home available components unless each wad is machined.

I've made a simple Brenneke style mould and used hot melt glue cast in a form with the slug to make an attached wad. They can work pretty well but it is hard to get consistent wads without bubbles that way. Mine were wad slugs (no glue against the bore!).

Cap'n Morgan beat that by using injection moulding equipment and proper plastics. Like I said, he is our shining star in home made Brenneke slugs.

Longbow

[6pt-sika]

Like a lot of things accuracy is relative to what person deems it . I don't shoot home cast in Any rifled shotguns , if I had a double that was rifled I'd most likely try . But in my bolt action rifled 20 the 2 3/4" REM AccuTip does a fine job . In my smoothbore doubles I generally confine testing to 25 yards and sometimes to 40 . And so far my parameters have met my needs .

[Blood Trail]

My best group at 100 yards is around 3-4" using Hammerhead slugs with a mold I bought from Slugrus.200549

Actually, Uncle D's swaged slugs shot a little tighter at 100:

200550

Those Steel Gaulbo slugs shot well at 100 yards, but I didn't make those, I just worked up a load.

200551

This is my best 50 yard group. Hammerhead slugs.

200552

[faustus]

Longbow, thanks for the information. I think I need to get a 0.735" round ball mold ... and give those a try.

Who makes a decent 0.735" round ball mold? What are the options here?
Any suggestions?

[djryan13]

Longbow, thanks for the information. I think I need to get a 0.735" round ball mold ... and give those a try.

Who makes a decent 0.735" round ball mold? What are the options here?
Any suggestions?

I just ordered the one on group buy. It closed but they might have some extra or ones that didnt sell. Havent gotten mine yet. Plan on just dropping it onto black powder and seeing how she does.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Black powder could very well be the most versatile powder for shotgun loads.

In the book "Sporting guns and gunpowder" from 1897, a test is done between damascus and steel barrels:

https://archive.org/details/sportinggunsand00tomsgoog

"Fig. 3 shows the unbrazed Damascus barrel. With this the first indication of distress was seen after firing test No. 23, when the charge was 7 ½ Drs. of powder and 12oz. of shot; it was then somewhat rivelled and bent. In the next round the barrel commenced to bulge at 6in. from the breech; but it held on for six more trials, and collapsed at test No. 30, with 11 Drs. of powder and 12oz. of shot."

"Fig. 1 represents the remains of the unbrazed barrel of Siemens-Martin steel, which burst with test No. 40, when the charge used was 16 Drs. of powder and 12oz. of shot. This barrel first exhibited signs of distress with trial No. 26, when the charge was 9 Drs. of powder and 12oz. of shot, the tube then showing a slight bulge at 7in. from the breech, and being somewhat rivelled and bent near the muzzle; nevertheless, it underwent thirteen more tests before the actual fracture occurred."

More than 200 grains of black powder behind 12 ounces of shot in a damascus barrel :roll: and twice that amount of powder in a steel barrel. It looks to me it would be physical impossible to cram enough black powder into any shotshell to harm the gun.

[BAGTIC]

My .735 RB mould is an old Lyman but I don't know if they are still available.

[longbow]

Yes, Lyman still makes them, or did until recently if they've stopped. Another option is Jeff Tanner in the UK.

I prefer balls in shotcups because they are easier to load and there I think the 0.678" RB mould is king. Still available through Lyman and RCBS I believe.

Track of the Wolf has pre-cast balls in about every size so you can order some to try different balls though I think they are all soft lead from TOW. They have 0.735" for sure., I just looked and they also have also 0.662", 0.678", 0.690", 0.715" and 0.735" so you are covered.

I have only run up to 110 grs. of FFFg behind a 0.690" RB in my 12 ga. No problems with that.

[RMc]

Black powder could very well be the most versatile powder for shotgun loads.

In the book "Sporting guns and gunpowder" from 1897, a test is done between damascus and steel barrels:

https://archive.org/details/sportinggunsand00tomsgoog

"Fig. 3 shows the unbrazed Damascus barrel. With this the first indication of distress was seen after firing test No. 23, when the charge was 7 ½ Drs. of powder and 12oz. of shot; it was then somewhat rivelled and bent. In the next round the barrel commenced to bulge at 6in. from the breech; but it held on for six more trials, and collapsed at test No. 30, with 11 Drs. of powder and 12oz. of shot."

"Fig. 1 represents the remains of the unbrazed barrel of Siemens-Martin steel, which burst with test No. 40, when the charge used was 16 Drs. of powder and 12oz. of shot. This barrel first exhibited signs of distress with trial No. 26, when the charge was 9 Drs. of powder and 12oz. of shot, the tube then showing a slight bulge at 7in. from the breech, and being somewhat rivelled and bent near the muzzle; nevertheless, it underwent thirteen more tests before the actual fracture occurred."

More than 200 grains of black powder behind 12 ounces of shot in a damascus barrel :roll: and twice that amount of powder in a steel barrel. It looks to me it would be physical impossible to cram enough black powder into any shotshell to harm the gun.

Indeed!

12 gauge 2.5" cartridge with 600 grain round ball driven near 1400 fps by American Black Powder made to late 19th century best quality standards.

http://www.classicarmsjournal.com/fr...loading-bench/

[faustus]

Blood Trail: those Hammerhead slugs ... nice grouping ... Were those 12ga or 20ga? If 12ga where could one find load data for those?

[KrakenFan69]

Also, with the Hammerhead slugs, do they need to be shot from a rifled barrel?


Thanks,


Kraken Fan #69

[PerpetualStudent]

This FBI Article (PDF file) list several individual gun writers opinion on what accuracy is acceptable for smoothbore slugs:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/132229NCJRS.pdf

The general opinion seems to be that that a four-inch group at fifty yards is good. My homemade Brenneke slugs will do three-inch groups at fifty yards all day long and six-inch groups at a hundred yards on a very good day.

This guy, Hickok45, is shooting offhand at 230 yards on a man-sized target and the majority of the hits are within what looks to be a 15x20 inch square:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTyCcip-ks lovely article. Thanks!

[Blood Trail]

Blood Trail: those Hammerhead slugs ... nice grouping ... Were those 12ga or 20ga? If 12ga where could one find load data for those?
Those are 12 ga. I also have the 20 ga mold. Load data comes off their website. When I bought the mold, they had no data listed for Longshot. I tried Longshot, was successful, and submitted my results to SlugsRus. The pressure tested my load and added to the list.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170807/84a59cd883b63cf1369f59530a8dbcf6.png

Also, with the Hammerhead slugs, do they need to be shot from a rifled barrel?


Thanks,


Kraken Fan #69
With any sabots, it's hard to beat a fully rifled barrel. I haven't shot these from a smoothbore.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KrakenFan69]

Well, here's my best so far. 7" group at 50 Yards using Smooth barreled Rem 870 Express Ghost Ring sights and a Improved Cylinder choke.

Load is a Lyman 525 gn Slug cast from WW in a CB1114-12 wad over 30 gn WSF in a RIO hull. Not as impressive as some others but I'm on the right track I think.


201650


Kraken Fan #69