Ruger American 450 bushmaster using Lee 310's (my 1st casts)group results...

[Tripplebeards]

Well, I finally made it to the range today with my Ruger American 450 bushmaster and my first try at casting. I know some of you have been patiently waiting for my results.

The bullets were 100% WW,WQ, PC, and GC. They had a BH of 15 last week.

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This is the first time my rifle has been shot and have never tried cast bullets till today.

I got the rifle sighted in and started trying out my groups in three shot strings...would have did five but not enough brass in my arsenal.

I wasn't expecting anything spectacular as far as grouping went today but kept my fingers crossed since it was a brand new, unfired rifle and from what little info I could find about the American 450 bushmaster it seemed like most shooting cast boolits out of it haven't had success.

I used H110 and started at 27g and worked up in .5g increments to 40g

I loaded up bacon grease to 34.5g and started with the blues at 35g to color code to remind myself to watch for any signs of pressure.

My load book stopped at 34.5g and I went off the s&w 460's data since I was told the Americans action is a lot stronger (Ruger uses the same action for the 300 WSM) than an AR which most load data takes into I consideration.

So WARNING...I want make clear I am not telling anyone to try this

BTW, I had no leading or signs of pressure all the way up to 40g of H110 but it sure will give you a push!

Here's my 100 yard grouping results...

27g. 3.0"

27.5g. 4.5"

28.0g. 1.9"

28.5g. 1.9"

29.0g. 1.5"

30.0g. 3.2"

30.5g. 3.3g

31.0g. 3.2g

31.5g. 3.7"

32.0g. 3.5"

32.5g. 1.9"

33.0g. 5.0"

33.5g. 3.5"

34.0g. 4.6"

34.5g. 3.5"

35.0g. 2.3"

35.5g 1.250" (best group)

36.0g. 4.0"

36.5g. 1.5"

37.0g. 2.6"

37.5g. 3.4"

38.0g. 1.5"

38.5g. 2.8"

39.0g. 3.5"

39.5g. 4.0"

40.0g. 3.4"


199978199979199980199981199982199983199984

My goal was to find a load to shoot MOA. I got close at 1.250"... Any suggestions on how to tighten my group? Thought I'd try working up and down by .2g each way from 35.5g and try it again. My boolits were 1g or less of each other.


On my last two loads I thought my bullets were melting in mid flight being I had a bunch of schrapnel holes in my target.

After looking behind the backstop There was part of a chunk of steel behind the target buried in the dirt. I hit it, cracked it and in The process my bullet must have melted or the steel fragmented and bounced back onto the back of my cardboard and poked through...

[Tripplebeards]

200064200065

And the back side of the target

200066

And the beast....


199991


Well, at least the gun started getting broke in today, and for my first try at cast boolits all went bang, no pressure signs all the way to 460 S&W loadings, and no leading.

Gonna have to get back this week and try out my Lee 310's I loaded up for my 77/44 and Ruger carbine that needs to be fired for the first time yet as well.

[Fenring]

40g of H110.....I bet that wakes you up!

[Tripplebeards]

40g of H110.....I bet that wakes you up!

If I had socks on it would have knocked me out of them.lol

[waco]

Very cool. These were shot at what distance?

[Tripplebeards]

Very cool. These were shot at what distance?

100 yards off my lead sled

[dragon813gt]

I'd try 35 through 38 again in five to ten shot strings. Three shots prove nothing statistically. Five really doesn't either but it's a little better than three. After that you can work in smaller increments to get it dialed in.

[Tripplebeards]

Realistically is a Lee 310 wide metplate, blunt nose bullet capable of MOA or tighter grouping at a 100 yards? Maybe I should be happy with the 1.2" group?

[DougGuy]

Hornady lists 34.4gr H110 as max under a 300gr XTP/MAG for 1800fps. My 310s weigh 320gr lubed and checked.

I would go back to your 35gr load and stick there.

[BK7saum]

Also, Hodgdon states to not load H110 below 10% of max charge. It is one of those powders that do not do well with less than a full case of powder. I didn't look at data, but if 35 is a max load, 31.5 would be the absolute minimum charge to use of H110

[Tripplebeards]

The backstop was pretty rocky so some of the boolits were blobs, some had gas checks and some were scraped off...not a good test. None looked cracked and more smeared so the WQ WW weren't brittle and smokes powder coating stayed intact. I ran a dry patch 4 times. One per each a quarter time of shooting. All that came out was a little burnt powder residual. Pretty clean, and like I stated earlier no leading.

Here was one of the four or five boolits recovered. It was sitting on top of the dirt in back of the stop.

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[Tripplebeards]

200042

This was the other bullet I found laying on top of the mud, sand n gravel. Their were alot of little rocks shattered i connected with that explained some of the goofy bullet splatters. I forgot the rest of my findings on the bench by accident.

[Love Life]

Realistically is a Lee 310 wide metplate, blunt nose bullet capable of MOA or tighter grouping at a 100 yards? Maybe I should be happy with the 1.2" group?

I'd call the load good. You could tweak more using different powders, alloys, primers, etc, but unless you are varmint hunting at 200 plus yards then I would call it good.


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[jonp]

What were you using? Bought or made and if made from what?

[Tripplebeards]

What were you using? Bought or made and if made from what?

To general of a question.

I'm guessing your asking about the cast boolit?

I casted them myself from a lee 310, PC with smokes paint, I used hornady GC and installed them when I sized the bullet to .452. .0002 bigger than my bore. I loaded at 2.035", federal match primers, virgin hornady brass, and taper crimped at .474

The lead, 100% WW and WQ in ice water, and then PC and WQ again in ice water. I loaded right away but waited a good month before shooting them. Last week the boolits had a BH of 15

This was my first try at making cast along with Lee 44 mag 310's. I shot the 450 loads first. I'll shoot my 44's tomorrow or next week. This project started about the same time I became a member on here in April. Luckily I had some good advise from members here and the .474" crimp suggestion came from a member from 450bushmaster.net

[jonp]

Sorry. I was trying to type this out on my phone. I was actually asking about the brass.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Have you shot this gun without the Lead Sled? That might be an appropriate method of determining top loads.

This cartridge is essentially a short .45-70 and I would expect the results to be similar with regard to recoil. I would also expect that 5744 would work in it.

Were you able to Chrono any loads?

Did I notice a Muzzle Brake on it?

I know I snoozed too long in getting a 77/44 and now they are gone, but this one looks interesting. That gun with only a TRS-25 Red Dot sight on it would be a great woods hunting rifle.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

Have you shot this gun without the Lead Sled? That might be an appropriate method of determining top loads.

This cartridge is essentially a short .45-70 and I would expect the results to be similar with regard to recoil. I would also expect that 5744 would work in it.

Were you able to Chrono any loads?

Did I notice a Muzzle Brake on it?

I know I snoozed too long in getting a 77/44 and now they are gone, but this one looks interesting. That gun with only a TRS-25 Red Dot sight on it would be a great woods hunting rifle.

Randy

This model comes with a factory brake. I had some extra starting loads that felt like a 4-10 when I shot it. I'm guessing the 40g loads will give you a jolt. If. Had to guess probably around 12 gauge slug territory the way the sled slid back. I'm not recoil shy...until after I shoot a box of shells through my my 375 RUM.

My upper loads in this little gun surpass the velocity and energies of a factory loaded 45-70.

I didn't chrony any loads because I wanted to see if it was even worth the time if it wouldn't pattern. Next time out i will along with my 35.5g load. I went off 460 S&w loadings so if you grab a reloading manual you probably could figure out my velocities. I would have to guess that 40g load was truckin in the 2400 plus fps range but the average person wouldn't want to deal with the recoil I'm sure.

You can still buy 77/44's all over gun broker last I checked. I have new one that will get shot next week for the first time with Lee 310's and devistators. You can pick up an American for around $425 vs $700 for the 77/44.

[Jeff Michel]

I spoke to Ruger earlier this week, production of the 77/44, 77/357 and .22 has resumed as of two weeks ago. The 17 and 22 hornet will start up again in the not too distant future. They are entertaining different calibers. I suggested .327, 41 Magnum and 45 Colt. Now is a good time to let them know what you would like to see in the small 77 platform. Contact them through their web sight.
]

[robg]

Being recoil adverse I thought the 29 gr load would be my choice.

[huntersdog]

Thanks for sharing your input in right up on the 450 Bushmaster!

That looks like the hammer of Thor! That round will stop anything in NA.

If you are seeking a good brake for recoil Magna-Port also really nice one for a $150.

[rockrat]

You might try .453" dia. on your boolits and also mag primers also. That said, your 1.25" group is plenty good.

[kungfustyle]

Wow 30 to 40 g under a 300g boolit. I was very surprised at the recoil of my Rossi 92 with a 300g over 18.3g of H110. I bet that one rattled your teeth. Just a suggestion, but you may want to pick one of the tight groups and find a 2" range with a high and low test it out now in the summer and rework the load in the winter and fine one that works for both. You'll drop some pressure in the winter months and that drives me batty. But if you find at 2" or 1.5" group around a specific load +- .5 g and load in the middle that might be your goto load. Just my 2 bits.

[Tripplebeards]

You might try .453" dia. on your boolits and also mag primers also. That said, your 1.25" group is plenty good.

Who's sells a .453 sizing die? I have the .452 lee

I casted some more lee 310's and AC this time. I will PC them in the next couple days and try them with the 35.5g load and the 3 other groups that I shot 1.5" groups and see what happenns

Curious to see if they open up or tighten.

[Tripplebeards]

I spoke to Ruger earlier this week, production of the 77/44, 77/357 and .22 has resumed as of two weeks ago. The 17 and 22 hornet will start up again in the not too distant future. They are entertaining different calibers. I suggested .327, 41 Magnum and 45 Colt. Now is a good time to let them know what you would like to see in the small 77 platform. Contact them through their web sight.
]

Sweet, I picked up a 77/44 last fall when they anmounced the halt in production. Got it from cabelas with my club points
Had a few scratches on the stock so they discounted down to just under $6 bills. Stainless and black. I polished the trigger and got it down to a little under 3lbs if I had to guess. The bolt was tight and needed no schims. Haven't shot it yet but its on my list in the next week to brake in. My plan was to send it in to have a compensator built over the whole barrel but it would have cost 2 to 3 times what I paid for the thing to do so so I will leave it be now that I have the american already threaded from factory.

[Texas by God]

I would retest the 35.5 load without the brake. 7 shot groups to get an average. I like what I see so far!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes: My standard load for my .45-70 is the RCBS .45-300 FNGC (330 gr) with 33.0 gr of 5744 for about 1600fps.

I can take 40 of them offhand in a Silhouette shoot. 35 gr of 5744 is listed as Max. I could probably suffer thru a few 400 gr loads at those velocities, but flinching would show up fast.

My .45-70 is a Marlin 1895CB with a 26" bbl. It weighs 8lbs and has a Gray-Coil Recoil Reducer and a 1" thick Pachmayer recoil pad to soften the recoil. This gun really needs to weigh 9-10 lbs to shoot a steady diet of 400 gr boolits at 1600+ fps. The 330gr at 1600 are more than enough for anything in N/A or lots of other places as well, and the Steel Rams get knocked flat when hit and drop with authority which is very satisfying and a good indicator of what would happen to a game animal.

You might find that after you figure out your top end loads, it might be a good idea to develop a nice midrange load that you could shoot more.

Shooting Short Range Silhouettes (50-200 Meters) is good practice for hunting and can be come quite consuming. You won't need full tilt loads for that.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

Well, I started to load up some AC boolits for round two and ran into the feeding issues I originally started with. Now It doesn't make any difference whether I load them shorter or longer, Where as before I shortened them to feed. I took the magazine apart to adjust the spring tension and it only made things worse. The wide meplate hits the bottom feed ramp some times and then the top ramp the other half.

Also, the action screws rocked loose from my last shooting session good enough that I could lift my receiver up and down. So I would assume that why some of my groups were really opening up.

I need to find a rounded, smaller meplate boolit that accepts a GC and to get it to feed without jamming. [smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:

I don't want to double post but if someone has a good hunting boolit suggestion please message me.

[tja6435]

You could have Veral Smith cut you a .453" LFN at whatever weight you'd wanted with a gas check base. LBTmolds.com

[Tripplebeards]

I believe I found and solved the feeding issue!


I changed the over all length to 2.055"(which feeds fine now) so I could line the lower crimp groove with the rim of the case so I could put a light roll crimp on it after I tapper crimped it per hornadys remendation to keep the boolit from shifting from recoil(which I had no problems with to begin with).

The boolits With the taper/roll crimp combo got caught on the lower feed ramp and the ones that didn't defected and jumped to the top of the Action must have got caught up on top?

Well, I just cycled a magazine load of the tapered only loads with the length of 2.055" with no feeding issues.

I have four more loads to test and will try and head to to range tomorrow.

I increased the OAL from 2.035" to 2.055" and loaded up My blue WQCOWW with H110 at 35.5g(my best group from last time), 35.3g, and 35.7g.

I also loaded up ACCOWW with 35.5g of H110 at 2.055"

FYI, the magazine bottom release to remove the spring is made out of plastic and brakes easily I found out. I called Ruger to purchase another bottom plate and they were nice enough to just send me a new replacement mag free of charge.

My plan was to try and bend the feeding spring to give it more tension and broke the bottom catch in the process. Well, I'll glue it in place and have a spare.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was just looking on the Ruger Site and they now have a Scout Rifle in .450 Bush with a serious brake on the front.

The gun looks very stout but only weighs 6.6 lbs, and has a wood stock for those that like that.

They are also advertising 77/44's again in 3 versions. I do want one of them, but it will have to wait for a while longer.

201635

Now,,, I have another question,,,

What is the groove dia. on these .450 Bushmaster guns?

Seems like it should be .458? but I see .453 boolits being used.

Looked at the SAAMI Drawings and it definitely uses .453 boolits.

Looks like a Lengthened and Rimless .460 S&W.

Pretty neat cartridge!

Randy

[full.lead.taco]

Who's sells a .453 sizing die? I have the .452 lee

NOE makes a bushing sizing die. You can get a .453 bushing for it too.

[Eldon]

The beauty of the 450 BM is its use in an AR.

In a bolt gun it is s-l-o-w as are all bolt guns.

If you want that power in a manually operated gun, get a 454 or 45-70 lever gun. Compared to either, that scout rifle is an ugly club.

Never did get the Scout concept. Has it been anyone but Cooper, it would have died on the table as it should have,

No "scout" would be stuck with a slow bolt gun given the availabilty of light weight ARs in any chambering you could desire.

I see they are even making a Ruger No. 1 in 450 BM ! A rebated rim 45 caliber in a single shot availabile in 45-70 ..... Say what ?

Marketing trumps common sense !

[Tripplebeards]

I was just looking on the Ruger Site and they now have a Scout Rifle in .450 Bush with a serious brake on the front.

The gun looks very stout but only weighs 6.6 lbs, and has a wood stock for those that like that.

They are also advertising 77/44's again in 3 versions. I do want one of them, but it will have to wait for a while longer.

201635

Now,,, I have another question,,,

What is the groove dia. on these .450 Bushmaster guns?

Seems like it should be .458? but I see .453 boolits being used.

Looked at the SAAMI Drawings and it definitely uses .453 boolits.

Looks like a Lengthened and Rimless .460 S&W.

Pretty neat cartridge!

Randy


I slugged my bore and got .450" on one slug(boolit) I sized first. I deluged another without sizing first and it measured .451". I size mine with the Lee .452 since I can't find a .453 sizer.

The scout version was available when I bought mine. Believe it or not, I like the looks of the cheaper American over the goofy butt pad on the scouts wood offering and just don't like the looks of scout type rifles. Also there is no aluminum V blocks for bedding in the wood offering so the American is going to be more accurate. I would buy the scout right now if they offered it in a bedded composit stock...I love the metal mags over my cheapy plastic ones.

I load my shells all the way up to max recommended loads for the 460 s&w. Factory offerings and load data books are low for this rifle being they were set for ARs that can't take pressures like the American action. The same action for my 450 is used in the 300 WSSM that's ran at 60,000. This means you can run the 450 BM 5-600 fps faster than an AR and it surpasses a 45-70 or 450 Marlin. Gunblast did a test and was getting 2600fps out of a 250g Barnes with no pressure signs. I loaded my Lee 310's up to 40g of h110 with no pressure signs as well. This stout action brings out the potential in the little cartridge without having the weight of a larger actioned rifle. I have enough ARs around and debated on buying an upper to run on my POF but I'd rather
Run a bolt. I've hunted with both and feel more comfortable and confident with a bolt gun...and normally only need 1 shot 99% of the time.

If I remember the American is a 1/16 twist. It was designed to shoot the hornady 250g FTX bullets that every American seems to shoot under and inch at a 100 yards if you research them.

I have a brand new 77/44 stainless composit I shot two days ago and don't care if I shoot it again after playing with my bushmaster. I'm sure I'll find some love for it some day. I originally bought it to have it threaded and get it suppressed and then snagged the American since it was already threaded.

I picked up an old Ruger semi auto 44 carbine and going to take it out next week to plink with.

[dkf]

I would be more than happy with 1.25" at 100 yards. Would be nice if Ruger made a .458socom version. Now if you want a .458socom bolt you are looking at $2000+ to have one built.

[MostlyOnThePaper]

I would be more than happy with 1.25" at 100 yards. Would be nice if Ruger made a .458socom version. Now if you want a .458socom bolt you are looking at $2000+ to have one built.Tromix WAS making Socom barrels for the Mossberg MVP, which uses the standard AR magazine the 458 Socom was designed to feed from. Since the MVP uses a barrel nut similar to a Savage I'm pretty sure a barrel wouldn't be THAT expensive from somebody else.

$2000 seems a bit high.

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[Tripplebeards]

I would be more than happy with 1.25" at 100 yards. Would be nice if Ruger made a .458socom version. Now if you want a .458socom bolt you are looking at $2000+ to have one built.

If you check out my 2nd trip to the range post I shot a 1.190" group at a 100 yards with a 35.5g of H110 AC COWW PC load. Gonna try some lil gun powder next week and see if I can get it under an inch.

201641

[dkf]

Tromix WAS making Socom barrels for the Mossberg MVP, which uses the standard AR magazine the 458 Socom was designed to freed from. Since the MVP uses a barrel nut similar to a Savage I'm pretty sure a barrel wouldn't be THAT expensive from somebody else.

$2000 seems a bit high.

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I got my AR .458 soc barrel/bolt from Tromix, I keep pretty good track of what he sells. The $2000 figure was about an average of what I see guys build costs that they posted. Some guys were well over two grand, some under. There is a little more involved than just a barrel.


If you check out my 2nd trip to the range post I shot a 1.190" group at a 100 yards with a 35.5g of H110 AC COWW PC load. Gonna try some lil gun powder next week and see if I can get it under an inch.

201641

I don't doubt you could get under 1" with the right load. I use a lot of Norma 200 and IMR4198 for the .458socom, don't know how well it works for the .450bush. I tend to favor the 4198 for cast, Norma 200 has a lot of unburndt powder at low to medium power loads.

[Tripplebeards]

Finally had a chance to try my lil gun powder loads today. I tried 30.5g all the way to 38g. Had some issues. Half way through my shooting session my magazine fell out. It kept doing this after a couple of shots. Ruger is sending another to see if it fixes the issue. Also while was shooting my shot string dropped straight down about a foot and a half on my Nikon pro staff 5. It did this two more times in 4" drops. Scopes going back to Nikon for repair. I grabbed the scope and could not move it by had but I can see it did move under recoil and the front bell had a deep ring gouged in it from banging against the mount. Needless to say all my groups sucked. The best was 2.5" which I am going to call a redo when I get my scope back in a few weeks. There was no leading all the way to 38g. Boy that baby recoils with stout loads!

203005

[crackers]

I would be more than happy with 1.25" at 100 yards. Would be nice if Ruger made a .458socom version. Now if you want a .458socom bolt you are looking at $2000+ to have one built.

$300 for a McGowen, $250 for a Marlin XS7, Stevens short 200.

[Lloyd Smale]

2 inch is plenty good enough for anything your going to hunt with a 450. I'm happy to get that out of any of my 4570s I'm not shooting out past 200 yards with one anyway. My beo does moa and I haven't noticed one bit of advantage to that over my 4570s in the hunting field.

[Intel6]

Tromix WAS making Socom barrels for the Mossberg MVP, which uses the standard AR magazine the 458 Socom was designed to feed from. Since the MVP uses a barrel nut similar to a Savage I'm pretty sure a barrel wouldn't be THAT expensive from somebody else.



I know he made some samples but he never made any barrels for anyone to purchase. I was following that project closely and would have been first in line if he had produced barrels for sale. Unfortunately he decided he was probably going to loose $ and get stuck with some barrels so he never produced anything other than his personal proof of concept. I have his .300 BO barrel along with the action wrench for the MVP and they are great, would have loved to get an MVP in .458 SOCOM.

[fatmanunited]

Did some load development for my new 450 Bushmaster AR oddly enough they hit it right on the head 35.0 to 35.5 a little gun shot excellent one hole groups at 50 yards through a 20 inch barrelhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180227/f3df74af275fee71485e9a2fa07d91c0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180227/fda66b47d842b5c4a054f2d82cb23fe5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180227/c41de21849c772e2348e3ee0dfe6569a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180227/116bf625dbe3670c0ebadcf89363fc7b.jpg

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[MK111]

Interest post guys about the 450 BM. I was going to get the new Ruger 450 BM but I already had 2 TC Encore rifle frames so I bought a 20" SS TC Encore factory barrel in 460 S&W. On the good side my son paid for the barrel. LOL
Loading the Hornagy 225 gr I get 2650 FPS and one shot kills on deer at 75 yds which is the farest I've shot deer with it on my farm.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Did some load development for my new 450 Bushmaster AR oddly enough they hit it right on the head 35.0 to 35.5 a little gun shot excellent one hole groups at 50 yards through a 20 inch barrelhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180227/f3df74af275fee71485e9a2fa07d91c0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180227/fda66b47d842b5c4a054f2d82cb23fe5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180227/c41de21849c772e2348e3ee0dfe6569a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180227/116bf625dbe3670c0ebadcf89363fc7b.jpg

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My Gawd: What's not to like there? That is pretty decent accuracy with that thumper.

What is the recoil like?

Randy

[fatmanunited]

Quite manageable with the factory muzzle brake that is currently installed on it. I would say a 410 shotgun with 2 and 3/4 slug type impulse

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