Blackwater
07-17-2017, 08:42 PM
Tamer's plea for "peace" was good, but unless we know how to really "argue" (really, just "discuss effectively" would be a better term) is the real issue, though, I believe. And I'd recommend this:
1. We all know that others differ in their reading of the Word. This should NEVER separate or divide us as Christians. It's obvious that this was NOT Christ's intent in giving us all the excellent advice He gave us, so ..... let's not revert into what can be our darker selves, and let theology separate and divide us, or cause us to "believe" that those who hold differing beliefs than ours are "not really Christian." After all, all that's really, truly necessary for us ALL to be Christian, is that we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. All else is a REFINEMENT of our Christian faith and walk. So let's just be a little "inclusive" as it's wont to be called these days, and at least accept that others may see things differently, but maybe are at a little different stage in development than we are. And who knows? Christ didn't advise us to "study to show thyself approved" so we could just argue and feel "holier than thou." He advised us to do that in order that we might learn something, or maybe just re-affirm what we already believed. But don't be surprised if we listen to those who differ from us, if we learn something we hadn't counted on, or maybe just learned a new and potentially valid way of looking at things. We'll always learn from those who differ from us. NOT those who think just like we do.
2. Since we know others see things a little differently, or value things by assigning different weights to certain passages than we see fit to do, we should be looking to find out WHY they view things as they do, in hopes of learning better how to deal with them more effectively and successfully. We're not put here to make everyone think just like we do, but to LEARN from others things that WE need to know to be more effective witnesses for and followers of our Lord. There's an old saying: "In order to receive some respect, first, we generally have to give some of it." And that'll always be true. It's just how we operate, and our delicate egos tend to make us work that way. Folks who REALLY know something are NEVER intimidated or challenged by another's varying view. They just get informed about how easily it is to err. So just state your case and/or belief as you hold it, and let it be challenged if others feel that's appropriate, and let's just see who has the most support for their views. THAT .... is how we REALLY learn, and grow, and do what Christ always intended for us to do.
With these two simple and practically irrefutable things in mind, we can discuss just about anything, and actually LEARN something from those discussions, instead of letting them turn into contests of ego and stamina and determination. Then, we'll ALL truly benefit from this wonderful section of the board, and we'll all be happy, and maybe .... just maybe .... we'll all learn a new and valuable respect for each other, and our differing views. I've long looked at God as being something like a huge, gigantic diamond, with many, many facets - so large that no one of us can see all of Him at once. And it's no wonder then, that some may see different facets, or that they might see them from a little different angle than we do. This can, if we let it be, be a great asset to us, and help us to understand others of our Faith more completely and better. This, then, can simply and almost surely, lead us to a mutual respect that will enhance all our beings and understandings. THIS, I believe, is the reason Christ bade us to "study to show thyself approved." It was certainly NOT to argue heatedly and disrespectfully with one another.
I was raised Baptist, and in my early years, was subjected to the thought that Catholics were a "cult of Mary," and that they were probably not real Christians, and MAY have been destined for the fires of hell! But I never believed that in the least, and thought the preacher the idea came from had blown a fuse or something. You see, I knew some Catholics, and they were among the most clearly Christian people I knew. I just went with what was obvious to me, and even as a youth, knew that there was God's direction, and man's interpretation of that direction, and that sometimes, it was obvious that man's interpretation was colored by things that probably shouldn't have entered into the evaluation. And so it goes, even now. There are those who seek more and more knowledge and understanding, and those who simply want to argue that they are right and all others are wrong. Even if it were so at any time, it's still a waste of time and lung power to argue over it. All that brings in response is the other side building up barriers up against the onslaught they're subjected to, and then, the battle ensues, and nobody gains one tiny, miniscule thing from any of it.
If we just discuss things from OUR perspective, and listen - really listen - to the other side, we might find ourselves edified in a way that makes us understand them more fully, and thus, we are provided with a bridge we may cross, rather than a barrier that nobody could penetrate. And thusly, all are benefited, and all have come to think a little more deeply and broadly about our own interpretations, and maybe even, a little chink might be revealed in our own views, that needs shoring up or revision.
THIS, my friends, is how to truly learn one from another, and hopefully, each of us can contribute something significant to each other, and we'll ALL benefit. I love it when that happens, even when it leaves me with yet more questions to solve later.
So let's all demonstrate how really Christ-like we can be, and dispense with the judgment of others, and just stick with seeking to learn from each other, even if that learning consists of re-affirming our prior beliefs. There are a lot of really intelligent and devout believers here. I look forward to learning from each and every one of you. And even those who aren't quite so well read CAN, on occasion, reveal something really simple and elemental that many may have lost sight of, or come to gloss over in their own determined search for greater understanding. Every one of us has a place here, and something to contribute. Let's all act like REAL Christians here, and .... well, there'll be nothing to "settle" among us. Very simple, really. But not always easy to do - kind'a like Christianity itself! All we really need to do to get along is simply to .... get along, and not worry or feel challenged when someone sees something differently than we do. So very, very simple. I believe we can and should do this, and if we do, we'll ALL be so vastly better edified, and we'll all be able to be proud of ourselves for our compassion one toward another. Can't we all do this here?
1. We all know that others differ in their reading of the Word. This should NEVER separate or divide us as Christians. It's obvious that this was NOT Christ's intent in giving us all the excellent advice He gave us, so ..... let's not revert into what can be our darker selves, and let theology separate and divide us, or cause us to "believe" that those who hold differing beliefs than ours are "not really Christian." After all, all that's really, truly necessary for us ALL to be Christian, is that we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. All else is a REFINEMENT of our Christian faith and walk. So let's just be a little "inclusive" as it's wont to be called these days, and at least accept that others may see things differently, but maybe are at a little different stage in development than we are. And who knows? Christ didn't advise us to "study to show thyself approved" so we could just argue and feel "holier than thou." He advised us to do that in order that we might learn something, or maybe just re-affirm what we already believed. But don't be surprised if we listen to those who differ from us, if we learn something we hadn't counted on, or maybe just learned a new and potentially valid way of looking at things. We'll always learn from those who differ from us. NOT those who think just like we do.
2. Since we know others see things a little differently, or value things by assigning different weights to certain passages than we see fit to do, we should be looking to find out WHY they view things as they do, in hopes of learning better how to deal with them more effectively and successfully. We're not put here to make everyone think just like we do, but to LEARN from others things that WE need to know to be more effective witnesses for and followers of our Lord. There's an old saying: "In order to receive some respect, first, we generally have to give some of it." And that'll always be true. It's just how we operate, and our delicate egos tend to make us work that way. Folks who REALLY know something are NEVER intimidated or challenged by another's varying view. They just get informed about how easily it is to err. So just state your case and/or belief as you hold it, and let it be challenged if others feel that's appropriate, and let's just see who has the most support for their views. THAT .... is how we REALLY learn, and grow, and do what Christ always intended for us to do.
With these two simple and practically irrefutable things in mind, we can discuss just about anything, and actually LEARN something from those discussions, instead of letting them turn into contests of ego and stamina and determination. Then, we'll ALL truly benefit from this wonderful section of the board, and we'll all be happy, and maybe .... just maybe .... we'll all learn a new and valuable respect for each other, and our differing views. I've long looked at God as being something like a huge, gigantic diamond, with many, many facets - so large that no one of us can see all of Him at once. And it's no wonder then, that some may see different facets, or that they might see them from a little different angle than we do. This can, if we let it be, be a great asset to us, and help us to understand others of our Faith more completely and better. This, then, can simply and almost surely, lead us to a mutual respect that will enhance all our beings and understandings. THIS, I believe, is the reason Christ bade us to "study to show thyself approved." It was certainly NOT to argue heatedly and disrespectfully with one another.
I was raised Baptist, and in my early years, was subjected to the thought that Catholics were a "cult of Mary," and that they were probably not real Christians, and MAY have been destined for the fires of hell! But I never believed that in the least, and thought the preacher the idea came from had blown a fuse or something. You see, I knew some Catholics, and they were among the most clearly Christian people I knew. I just went with what was obvious to me, and even as a youth, knew that there was God's direction, and man's interpretation of that direction, and that sometimes, it was obvious that man's interpretation was colored by things that probably shouldn't have entered into the evaluation. And so it goes, even now. There are those who seek more and more knowledge and understanding, and those who simply want to argue that they are right and all others are wrong. Even if it were so at any time, it's still a waste of time and lung power to argue over it. All that brings in response is the other side building up barriers up against the onslaught they're subjected to, and then, the battle ensues, and nobody gains one tiny, miniscule thing from any of it.
If we just discuss things from OUR perspective, and listen - really listen - to the other side, we might find ourselves edified in a way that makes us understand them more fully, and thus, we are provided with a bridge we may cross, rather than a barrier that nobody could penetrate. And thusly, all are benefited, and all have come to think a little more deeply and broadly about our own interpretations, and maybe even, a little chink might be revealed in our own views, that needs shoring up or revision.
THIS, my friends, is how to truly learn one from another, and hopefully, each of us can contribute something significant to each other, and we'll ALL benefit. I love it when that happens, even when it leaves me with yet more questions to solve later.
So let's all demonstrate how really Christ-like we can be, and dispense with the judgment of others, and just stick with seeking to learn from each other, even if that learning consists of re-affirming our prior beliefs. There are a lot of really intelligent and devout believers here. I look forward to learning from each and every one of you. And even those who aren't quite so well read CAN, on occasion, reveal something really simple and elemental that many may have lost sight of, or come to gloss over in their own determined search for greater understanding. Every one of us has a place here, and something to contribute. Let's all act like REAL Christians here, and .... well, there'll be nothing to "settle" among us. Very simple, really. But not always easy to do - kind'a like Christianity itself! All we really need to do to get along is simply to .... get along, and not worry or feel challenged when someone sees something differently than we do. So very, very simple. I believe we can and should do this, and if we do, we'll ALL be so vastly better edified, and we'll all be able to be proud of ourselves for our compassion one toward another. Can't we all do this here?