Leman Trade rifle build

[49FMarlin]

OK, im defiantly crazy,,,

a friend came over i shoot with, saw my 58 CVA Mountain rifle and wanted it,
I took it in trade for refinishing a couple of modern rifle stocks for my buddy, he got it from the original owner, and has been fired very very little, bought new back in the late 70's
low serial number, I've heard the lower ones were american made
frizzen hardly scratched up, BUT the stock had been carved and wood burned, UGLY AS SIN,,I fired it once last year,,liked it, but its sat in my gunsafe now for 4 yrs,
always wanted to re-stock it,

well he wanted it and i said we'd shoot for it, he put 200 smackers on my truck hood, next to the rifle,

we shot 10 rounds each with my zouave .58 (oh he shoots competitions with me so it was a fair smoke pole match)
I won by 2 closer holes,

put a few more bucks with the 200 and ordered a TOTW Leman stock with only the 1"barrel inlet

gonna be a long project, need to buy all the parts in the kit, as my lock and trigger guard aint right,
and oh so its 3 inches shorter than there 36" .58 so its a canoe trade gun now
its also my first scratch? build? I built a 54 hawken kit back in 81 when i was stationed on a lighthouse,,

and i definitely need better chisels, and better glasses,,
my inletting of the land is something to not be desired,
I did file down the profile of the tang, to match the barrel, as its a barrel-lift-out tang, draw filed the barrel and sanded to 350git ill either rust blue it or brown it, can't decide.
I've seen some beautiful stocks done in a reddish cast, and some with the brown, I'm leaning towards the reddish, but don't know how to get there,
been playing with the aquafortis,,OMG that in itself might drive me to insanity my tests are giving me an orangish red,

cheers John
ill be updating as i go along

[Wayne Smith]

Is it a walnut or maple stock? Aqua Fortis works better with maple. It is a brown tint on maple. On either any of the wood stains or dyes can be used. I prefer dyes myself because of the penetration. Analine dies are what work, and the alcohol dissolved ones (typically leather application) dry faster than the water dissolved ones (wood or cloth application). Either can be used on wood, and the water dissolved ones are found in your grocery or drug store.

[49FMarlin]

its a grade 3 curly maple stock

[bedbugbilly]

That will be a great rifle! I had a chance to see one years ago down at Friendship that a guy built from one of Track's kits - a really nice feel to it and it was a great shooter. I hope you'll keep us updated on the build with some photos along the way. You're doing a great job! That's a nice piece of curly maple which is really going to show the dominant grain.

I have used aqua fortes on a number of maple stocks and as Wayne points out, it will give you browner tones on maple but depending on the piece of maple, you may also get some reddish tones coming through as well - it really makes the curl pop out visually and is a finish that has been used for years followed by BLO. It is painted on and then the stock has to be heated. I usually apply to the stock and then gently move the stock over a hot stove burner. You'll see the brown start to appear. The important thing is with it, keep the stock moving and avoid getting too close to the heat source - especially on areas like the sharper edge of the lock panel, etc. I have never used a heat gun with that finish as I didn't have one but I do now and I would image it would work just as well as a hot burner - I'm talking the heat guns that look like a hair dryer but are made for use in softening paint, etc. to scrape it off.

Good luck and keep your chisels sharp! :-)

Am after thought - I use "pole barn spikes" to make narrow chisels from. They are hard and you can easily grind the end of them to make a chisel that is 1/8", 1/16" etc. for cutting out the mortise in the bottom of the ramrod groove for your thimbles, etc. I keep a buffing wheel with some rouge around for touch up of the cutting edge.

When you go to do your lock mortise - I have found a set of "forester bits" to be very handy. Set a drill press for the correct cutting depth, scribe the mortise outline around the lock plate and you can remove much of the material with the forester bit and then carefully finish the outline of the inlet. Everybody has their own methods - if you go that route, practice on a scrap piece of maple so you get the "feel" for it before you do it on your preserved blank.

[Wayne Smith]

I would suggest you experiment with a number of finishes on scrap pieces before you decide on your final. Go all the way to the final finish on each piece because each stage changes the final look. Sand to 220 grit and you get a deeper color than if you sand to 320 or 400 grit, for instance, because the larger scratches absorb more of the coloring. Each layer of the final finish changes your final color slightly, only the water based poly is truly clear.

[bedbugbilly]

44 -

Here is a photo of a Fusil I made and used aqua fortis on. The stock is maple has some limited curl and grain but not a highly curled stock. I used two applications of the aqua fortis on this stock followed by a number of applications of boiled linseed oil. I thin the BLO about 50/50 with "real" turpentine (not artificial which is sold by many paint suppliers). This stock was heated over a stove top after application of the AF. A good coat of BLO rubbed in each day over a couple of weeks. It has stood up under all types of weather and easily freshened up with a coat rubbed in. I apologize for the quality of the photos but hopefully you can get an idea of the results.

The photos are not the best but this particular piece of maple turned a nice deep brown with a hint of red in some spots due to the grain. I was happy with the way it turned out. A 20 gauge (.620) smoothbore and a good shooter. I even took a couple of ducks on the wing with it a number of years ago with shot. I built this one about twenty years ago.

I used the aqua forte on a custom Hawken I built years ago. The maple stock on that one had a lot of interesting curl to it. On that, I just used one application of the AF followed by the BLO and the tone was still brownish but it was a lighter shade and really allowed the curl to come through and stand out. I sold that rifle and still wish I hadn't.

AF is a traditional stain that has been used a long time. There are many good stains out there though that will also give nice tones to the maple depending if you are leaning towards honey, reds, browns, etc.

When I had my custom cabinet/millwork shop, I even used AF a couple of times on custom order pieces. It really made the curly maple and birdseye maple "pop". Sometimes i would use those woods in combination with other species for contrast so I always pre-stained the maple before assembly if it was with woods that would not take the AF well.

The very first rifle I made was when I was about 12. I bought a straight grained maple stock blank from Dixie - in those days, the price was $3.00 for a full stock straight grand maple stock. They ran a special on them - 3 for $6.00 so I bought three of them. 50 plus years later and I still have one of those blanks waiting o bw used. The barrel, lock and furniture was all from original guns - sort of a hodge lodge but that's all that i had available.. Not the greatest "work of art" but it shot and worked!

The stain on that stock was a little different. I read that you could put a plug of chewing tobacco in a quart of ammonia, let it set for a month or so, strain it and then apply it to the maple. It worked. The color was brownish from the tobacco and on the light side. It didn't work too well on a straight grained stock but on a curly one, I think it would have made the grain stand out. The ammonia carried the color in to the wood and then evaporated. However, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone as it really wasn't that great and you could get far better results today from some of the newer stains on the market made for gun builds. Homer Dangler used to market stains along with his kits and they were good stains. He shot with the RB club I shot with once in a while and would bring some of his new builds to try out - the stocks were always beautiful.

Good luck with your build and enjoy!

199949199950199951199952199949199950199951199952

[bedbugbilly]

I apologize - somehow I posted the same photos twice - what can I say? I'm old! :-)

[Edward]

I apologize - somehow I posted the same photos twice - what can I say? I'm old! :-)

No apology needed just got to see a good looking gun twice /Thanks Ed

[49FMarlin]

Thanks,
Im playing with some of TOTW aquafortis now on a scrap piece, 4 inch chunk of the (forend i cut off) also ordered some Tannic acid to try along with it,

I tried boiling a whole box of tea bags, LMAO,,,didn't work so well, and i wasn't going to waste my tobacco,,,
when i built my first 58Cal on the lighthouse 10 miles offshore in 82, i tinkled on the barrel, and let it sit, carded it,,tinkled,,over and over,
and dang if i didn't come out looking really nice after a month,,I think it was my uncle who told me how to do that one,,

[49FMarlin]

did some funky spirals on the barrel as a test, sanded it back off,,,,
see the pic,

test piece for my finish, sanded back down after trying aquafortis

test piece using a solution of Tannic Acid,,then a coat of Aquafortis,,,don't freak out it won't stay black,,LOL
its now drying with a finish coat on it, put the first coat on and burnished it back, then added another coat, I used true-Oil because its what i had on hand, but will be using something else,
so there will be more testing,,, ill post a pic when i get a few coats on,
the Tannic coat seems to darken the stripes and takes it to a nice red/brown with a golden hue

shots of filing in the barrel lugs,,what a lot of work,,,,

shots of the stock wet,, I've not begun to sand and shape it yet, as is arrived from TOTW

[taco650]

Making progress! Just keep at it, you'll be done before you know it.

[bedbugbilly]

What did you do to the barrel? I have never tried it but I have heard of a technique where you wrap the barrel in cotton cord, apply either blueing or browning solution and it will give you a "faux" damascus look. I like the way it looks - the photo of it looks good! Sort of a "faux" damascus?

Have you figured out what you are going to do as far as barrel and furniture finish? Are the butt plate and trigger guard brass or steel on this one?

I have tried slow rust browning using mortice acid in a "sweat box". I did that on a Virginia style flintlock that had forged furniture (Myron Carlson, who is now gone, used to make some terrific hand forged furniture - his specialty was for Bean rifles). The sweat box and muriatic acid god the rustic process going but then it was a real challenge to "stop" it. LOL On others, I've used the Birchwood Casey "Plum Brown" with good success. I'm thinking on my next build I'm going to leave the barrel in the white and if I use steel furniture on it, just let it "age" over time - which with dirty hands and BP fouling doesn't take long to get a nice patina.

The stain certainly made the grain "pop out" on your sample! That blank has some great grain and no matter what you end up using, it will be a beautiful stock! As they say . . . "lookin' good"! :-)

[49FMarlin]

I used some nylon cord that came with a cheap canopy i was tossing away, took 3 strands and wove it on tight then took and unwove two strands,
then painted laurel Mountain barrel brown on the cord,
the pattern in the string when it got wet must have moved causing the copper pattern to happen like when you do a back rub on a normal application

its different for sure, I'm thinking of maybe,,doing a 6-8 strand gap just for the artistic spiral to go with the pattern on the stock,
can't decide,
I'm thinking it would have to be the last coat,

the buttplate is steel, you can see the rifle on TOTW look up the Leman trade rifle,
but I've kinda gone my own way a little as I'm at 32 inches on my barrel, Canoe gun? and I'm going to do some inlets on where my barrel pins are,
as my barrel flips out of the tang, which is totally wrong with lemans trade rifles, but this all started with the barrel i have,

[49FMarlin]

got my stock/barrel pins drilled,,,talk about sweating it,,there aint much room for error, center one came out on the thin side but it will hold,
made a jig up for my drill press, filed a counterpoint on a 3/8 bolt and bolted it into the bottom of the drill plate, slight punch in the lower stock--lined the bit up with my top mark drilled it,,
saw this on the U-tube with the Duelist 1954 sweet tip and i used it

then took pics of my test piece, after 4 coats of tru-oil hard in the pics to see it "as is" with the eye,
but you can see it darken towards the right hand side, to a more red base,
and then theres a shot where I'm tilting it and it goes to the orange-gold look,

what I'm wondering is if you look close you can see the wood grain lines, NOT the Curls,,,and if doing it with the Tannic acid and the aquafortis will fade the grain lines out,
because I've got some nice grain lines in this stock also, I don't want to loose them to the Curls,, I'm greedy I WANT BOTH

anybody that can give me a clue or info id be in yr debt

cheers
John

[Wayne Smith]

Only real way to truly answer that is to try each combination on other scrap of that tree. Hopefully you have enough scrap to do it without sanding the finish off this one. I do like that, though. Mine is gonna be done in a honey maple finish so, if I want, I can darken it myself.

[49FMarlin]

got my lock in and have finally got all the curves carved and sanded in, it was a lot of fun. did hours of sanding, and still some finish sanding to go,
took me three times to get the curves the way i wanted them, seems the percussion and flint rifle had different lines, and very few pics to go by,
TOTW site and there lines were to me way off on the flintlock, they left tons of meat on the rear of the lock, almost like nobody did nothing with the kit just inlet the lock,,
I didn't like it, and I'm varying away from a true Leman anyways with my short barrel-build
I did something different to the barrel and filed in some fancy work, mainly because i wanted to hide the fact that its a flip-out tang-barrel, so now it just looks like a normal barrel
ordering the rest of my parts today, so ill be getting more done next week,

cheers
John

[taco650]

Looking good!

[izzyjoe]

Looks great! Keep up the good work.

[RU shooter]

Love how that pattern on the barrel looks great ! I'm gonna try that on my next future build

[49FMarlin]

got the nose cap inletted--alot of thin wood up there, so i cheated and wrapped the barrel with saran wrap and gave the underneath wood a coat of 5 min epoxy
,
Triggers and trigger guard inletted, this was a lot of fiddling, getting the triggers lined up, Id never done it before, and little reading, took me about35 hours but was with it,
the tang bolt gave me some problems with the triggers at first, as i had drilled a wee-bitt off angle, I fixed that with tapping into the guard, I had 1/8th of an inch to run the tap down through the stock,
and get the tap started on the right angle, It was my last ditch effort as i HAD tapped the trigger-plate but it was off angle and kept binding, high the tap started in the trigger plate
I un-pinned the guard and played that old "Doctor-Bone-Buzzer Game" taking it out and not knocking the tap,,whew,,,,,the trigger plate is filed along with the brass guard so it locks into notches
to keep it from sliding.

[49FMarlin]

got the barrel and lock "browned" and let it sit in a foil trench of warmed up transmission fluid for two days, took it from a dull brown to a slight reddish cast deeper brown,
now i just have to be careful not to scar it up before I'm done,
,
got the patch box in,,that took me about 18 hrs, made up my own chisels for the curves using hacksaw blades, I call them my "disposable curvables" because they don't last but 10-20 whacks
and they go south really quick I purposely drilled my spring screw all the way through as i want to do a torch blue on the screw end, for a spot of color
,
next up is the Butt-Plate, need to dig out my band-saw for this one
,
Ive got the whole stock now about 90% rough sanded to shape,
after the butt-stock ill be doing ALOT of finish sanding, cutting pins, Color-torching pins/screws

already want another one for this winter,

[bedbugbilly]

Looking good! I've done the same thing on a couple of nose caps with the epoxy to strengthen it. I got a steel nose cap installed installed one time on a Virginia style rifle and it ended up breaking off! (The stock was walnut). Looks like you got a good solution to the tang screw - even the original builders had issues and the trick is to figure out a "fix" - you did a good job! It's all a learning experience.

Did you get your lock issues taken care of? Hopefully TOW or L & R were a help with it?

Not too much more to do and you'll be putting lead downrange with it! I anxious to see what you decide on stain as that wood grain is going to be beautiful. Good luck and enjoy!

[49FMarlin]

I got a not from TOTW and they told me to send it to L&R,
so i kept tinkering and right now its working, (files are wonderfull things)

[taco650]

I got a not from TOTW and they told me to send it to L&R,
so i kept tinkering and right now its working, (files are wonderfull things)

Too bad TOW didn't come through for you but on the other hand, it gave you the "opportunity" to learn how to fix a lock.
The rifle is looking great! Keep up the good work!

[bedbugbilly]

Really looking nice! Glad you got the lock figured out and I'm sure you are too! LOL As always, we are all enjoying the photos and watching your progress - you've really done a fine job!

[49FMarlin]

got the Butt-plate and Toe-plate cut/filed in, OMG- it aint as easy as it looks, "END-Grain what a PAIN"

I didn't get the toe plate deep enough, it should hit behind the Butt-plate, but i wasn't feeling "LUCKY"
as i already knocked a chunk off the end and had to glue it back on,
maybe ill do a little shaving today, maybe NOT.

got pretty nervous when a saw all the "free" wood all around the butt-plate, then looked some more at the plans, and some pics,
realized theres a reverse curve and not a flat flowing line from the front to back,

Ive been using dowels and 80 grit, sanding blocks eat to do all my roughing out, not on this,
went and got me a nice bastard-file and went to town man it saved a lot of work,

got my replacement Ram rod pipe from TOTW and got that back in its hole, then took the bastard-file and I've started at the front
and lightly getting all my finishing curves smoothed down,
next ill be finish sanding wetting it down to raise the grain and a final sanding,
then on to all the brass

cheers
John