Junk Yard Dog Loads

[bouncer50]

Back in the 1980s their was a home made load call the junk yard dog loads. What it was instead of using lead shot you used wire cut to size. In the 44 special in a shot capsules i used cut down coat hanger. At 20 feet most of them would shot thru half inch plywood and the damage they did. Nothing meaner than a junk yard dog

[jmorris]

Never heard of that one but I don't run steel cases in chambers much AK's is about it and wouldn't run steel wire down the bore of anything at firing velocity. Even at slow speeds I prefer a bronze brush to clean.

[bouncer50]

Never heard of that one but I don't run steel cases in chambers much AK's is about it and wouldn't run steel wire down the bore of anything at firing velocity. Even at slow speeds I prefer a bronze brush to clean. you use plastic shot capsules they protect the bore till they leave the barrel.

[MaLar]

I've used a 3/8" punch to cut some lead sheet into discs. Run a stack through a .358" lube sizer making a wad cutter out of them. I had to add a few at a time until I had a stack. The lube holds them together until shot. Sounds like angry Bees going down range.

[trapper9260]

I've used a 3/8" punch to cut some lead sheet into discs. Run a stack through a .358" lube sizer making a wad cutter out of them. I had to add a few at a time until I had a stack. The lube holds them together until shot. Sounds like angry Bees going down range.How far are they good for? Also what you use them on ? thank you

[jmorris]

you use plastic shot capsules they protect the bore till they leave the barrel.


They might, ever broke one? I have and upon impact they break into tiny little pieces. I imagine a cup wad would have a much better chance of protecting the bore as it remains one piece and doesn't open up until after it clears the muzzle.

If they remained a cylinder until out of the muzzle, shot patterns from pistols would be satisfactory beyond 15 ft.

[country gent]

Interesting in a way. Maybe a spin off of the flechette loads the military had in the 60s. Wire iis a pretty generic term as to size and alloy or material as is clothes hangers. I would have a hard time running steel anything down my barrels also. I to agree a shot cup would offer more protection than the shot capsules do they are brittler plastic. I'm not sure they will perform that much better distance wise due to rifling and rotation spinning them apart.

[richhodg66]

I've used a 3/8" punch to cut some lead sheet into discs. Run a stack through a .358" lube sizer making a wad cutter out of them. I had to add a few at a time until I had a stack. The lube holds them together until shot. Sounds like angry Bees going down range.

I like this idea and have a bunch of lead sheet. Might have to give this a try.

[Drm50]

I made up some of the Junk Yard Dog loads back from article in magazine. I don't remember the
author but I used lead solder cut to length and stacked in Speer capsule like pencil lead. They
had plenty of power but lousy pattern.

I have also done the stacked slugs. We call them disco loads, because they go dis way & dat way.
If you think they buzz out of handgun, try loading a 12g with them!

Not much practical use for any of the above.

[bouncer50]

That were i got the story from a old magazine. As i recall the idea was a close range self protection load. The idea was to pull and shoot with no time to aim. The wire would tumble in the target cause a larger wound then bird shot. Went i compare bird shot to wire on plywood the wire was the winner.

[Blanket]

I use brass brads

[ghh3rd]

Wonder if anyone has ever developed a boolit that whistles (screams) as it goes downrange.

[mac60]

This was passed on by Dean Grennell many years ago. Several years ago I put a few together - just to see what I could see. I used some welding rod (brass I think - can't really remember).

199721

I fired them through a Charter Bulldog .44 spl.

199722

and tested 'em on a tater at about 10 ft. or so.

199723

they're a pain to put together, but I suppose they'd do the job they're intended for (whatever that is:???:).

[NyFirefighter357]

Talk about a nightmare court case with loads like that. You may stop the treat but you'll loose the civil lawsuit and probably be criminally prosecuted as well. I'm OK with cast loads as self defense as well loads that mimic self defense shot loads or combination loads that are commercial. Using a load like that for self defense is going to cost a lot to defend. JMO, Jay

[Ecramer]

I saw a load once that used pin bearings out of some automotive wheel assembly -- that did require the use of a plastic cup to protect the barrel.

[EMC45]

Wonder if anyone has ever developed a boolit that whistles (screams) as it goes downrange.

Once by accident - I loaded a 405gr. Lee RNFP bullet that had a gouge in it and when I fired it it buzzed loudly and was not very accurate. Still sounded neat going downrange.

[Texas by God]

I made some from wire solder too. I believe cruel & unusual comes to mind. I've killed my share of wild dogs; at close range a shotgun with #6 or larger tells. Across the pasture the 22-250 works perfectly.

[JSnover]

I played around with that idea years ago and decided it was more of a last-ditch option than a viable alternative anything else on the shelf. Interesting results and good to know what you can if have to but it was too time-consuming to load them and the results were unpredictable.
On the other hand it was a fun project.

[Blanket]

the brass brad loads make mincemeat out of snakes

[beagle]

There was an old .45 ACP load for the Thompson SMG way back when made from thin lead washers. As I recall it took a special magazine but imagine turning that thing loose on a mob? Different caliber, same principle./beagle

[beagle]

Whistlers? Had a 356637 Devestator HP for the 9mm with the large HP cavity that whistled going down range. Might see if anyone else has had a similar experience./beagle

[Nick10Ring]

I've used split shot sinkers cut in half and loaded into shot capsules. They are great close up. Some decent patterns.

[beagle]

I loaded a bunch of the 9mm Lyman Devastator HP bullets once and they scream pretty good. Weren't overly accurate either so I didn't pursue that any farther./beagle


Wonder if anyone has ever developed a boolit that whistles (screams) as it goes downrange.

[RED BEAR]

always preferred the biggest softest piece of lead i could use!

[firebyprolong]

As an experiment when I was younger I played with this quite a bit in shot shells. #9 copper wire cut to length of the wad in a 12ga can be fairly impressive. More impressive are what we called "dime loads" I built a pound swage to convert 50cal rb to flat lead washers of a size that would pass a full choke in the aa12 wad and worked up some loads. They hung together and patterned him inside 6" out to about 30 yards. A new punch was made to center a 3/16 hole in each washer so that a pin of lead wire could be used to rivet the stack together. These stayed attached in flight and separated on impact. Each washer being pushed buy the one behind it before sliding off the stack to go its merry way. For a couple of hillbilly kids that where too broke to buy slugs for a slug only hunting area these where a good solution. The copper and the loose stack was never used on anything other than coyotes and pests. But the slugs proved to be accurate enough and really effective on a couple of deer in timber. I don't recall tracking anything after it was hit by one of these monsters. I don't see why the concept couldn't be downsized for pistol use.

[popper]

So, was rock salt ever really used in shotgun? Always heard the story about it.

[justashooter]

50-60 grain wad-cutters double and triple stacked in 38 spcl cases can be entertaining. 357 cases seem to have too much taper-wall-thickness to get 3 into.

[Stephen Cohen]

So, was rock salt ever really used in shotgun? Always heard the story about it.

As A young lad I used rock salt in a H and R single barrel to get a bull out of my Grans vegie patch, the scrotum was to tempting to pass up and he took the fence with him. Regards Stephen

[popper]

Was he injured or just sore?I guess the question is there damage done or just a light sand blasting?

[Drm50]

Wonder if anyone has ever developed a boolit that whistles (screams) as it goes downrange.

I know a guy that has a 45/70 Hp mold. He runs hp pin 3/4 depth of bullet, takes a sharp knife
and cuts small V into cavity and squeezes hp almost shut with pliers. He shots these at low vel
and they whistle and buzz. He shots one every once in a while just to jack other guys on the
range. Another guy down in WVa had a Kazoo on his extended barrel card gun. Had bleeder to
power it in joint where barrel sections were joined.

[Mac118]

I have got to try punching lead sheet wads and stacking them. Maybe in my 44 shotshell gun. More fun for the camp!

[jmorris]

Wonder if anyone has ever developed a boolit that whistles (screams) as it goes downrange.

Any tumbling bullet will make racket as it goes down range, poor accuracy and keyholes on target generally accompany the sounds.

[cajun shooter]

Jay, I was a Cop for 16 yrs. and attended the FBI Firearms Instructor school where shooting liability was discussed in many classes. I also attended LSU's Criminal Institute and many other like classes over the years. Not one of those classes had to do with the type of weapon used nor the ammo it fired.
If I was to shoot a man square in the face with a load of fleshetts from a 12 ga shotgun, The question would not be the load, the question would be if I was justified in pulling the trigger and taking his life.
In fact any ammo loaded as described would be great for home defense as it would not penetrate inner or outer walls and bring harm to a innocent bystander. That was the principal used by the original designer of the Glaser Safety Slug. Later David

[Soundguy]

This was passed on by Dean Grennell many years ago. Several years ago I put a few together - just to see what I could see. I used some welding rod (brass I think - can't really remember).

199721

I fired them through a Charter Bulldog .44 spl.

199722

and tested 'em on a tater at about 10 ft. or so.

199723

they're a pain to put together, but I suppose they'd do the job they're intended for (whatever that is:???:).

if it was brass rod, it would be brazing rod, not welding rod. welding rod would be steel.

[Soundguy]

Jay, I was a Cop for 16 yrs. and attended the FBI Firearms Instructor school where shooting liability was discussed in many classes. I also attended LSU's Criminal Institute and many other like classes over the years. Not one of those classes had to do with the type of weapon used nor the ammo it fired.
If I was to shoot a man square in the face with a load of fleshetts from a 12 ga shotgun, The question would not be the load, the question would be if I was justified in pulling the trigger and taking his life.
In fact any ammo loaded as described would be great for home defense as it would not penetrate inner or outer walls and bring harm to a innocent bystander. That was the principal used by the original designer of the Glaser Safety Slug. Later David

Hornady critical defense would be my GO to if I wanted stopping power, AND also didn't want to shoot thru walls.

I set up a test with ballistic gelatin a rack of fresh ribs, cloth from a t-shirt and denim jeans, and 2 panels of 1/2" drywall spaced apart using 2x4 to simulate in interior, un-insulated house wall, and then a damage evident target behind that.

In other words a layer of shirt, a layer of denim, a layer of ribs, then a block of gelatin to simulate your bad guy. I used 2 different gelatin block lengths to simulate skinny bad guys, and plump bad guys. Behind that I setup the standing drywall simulated hollow interior wall. behind that I stood side by side a bunch of 2L soda bottles filled with red food colored water to simulate a soft target ont he other side of the wall that was being hit by over-penetrating rounds. Behind that was a dirt berm .

My first 4 tests were with .380 and .45 acp. I shot FMJ, and then HCD. Each shot got it's own gell block and ribs and clothes, yada yada yada.

Shots were fired at about 3'-4' I set this up so that the 'defending' shooter, the gap and the 'attacker' were within 9' wall to wall. In other words, the shot you might make if you were standing in a small bedroom with your back near the wall, and an intruder kicked the door in and stepped into the room.

Results were as expected. FMJ ammo might as well be called 'standard light armor piercing'.

The .380 and .45acp FMJ penetrated clothes, ribs, full lenght of the gelatin blocks, thru both 1/2" drywall panels, thru the 2L of red water and into the berm.

In other words.. if you defend with FMJ, expect to be shooting people BEHIND the bad guy with thru and thru shots unless you hit something like the pelvis MAYBEE!

The HCD was a completely different story.

thru clothes, thru ribs ( not between, but thru.. splintering them ), and then into, but not out of the Gell. the .380 traveled 2/3's thru the skinnybadguy blocks, and about half way thru the fatbadguy blocks. 45 ACP made it to 3/4 of the skinny, and over half of the fat blocks.

The HCD retained their red plugs, didn't plug with clothing, 1 of the slugs lost a sliver or 2 of gilding metal at rib penetration, but retained 95% weight, the other slugs maintained 100% weight. Slugs opened up quite well.

No HCD exited the gell blocks even at 6" point blank range. Made it close ont he .45acp and skinny badguy block.. came within an inch.. but didn't leave.

My carry guns and home defense guns get HCD if it's made in their caliber.

( By the way.. with the fmj shot thru blocks, before I tossed them, I tested various cast lead loads... hardcast lead didn't mushroom much soft lead did a little better... neither worked as good as the HCD however.. )

[mac60]

if it was brass rod, it would be brazing rod, not welding rod. welding rod would be steel.

Sorry, not a welder. Just haul tons of welding equipment up and down the highway every day. Been at it 18+ yrs. Thanks for the lesson.

[RogerDat]

So, was rock salt ever really used in shotgun? Always heard the story about it. Local farmer learned a group of young folks that I might or might not have been with about raiding the melon patch using rock salt.

I would swear he must have grown that rock salt on a string like rock candy so it was a nice big chunk. From barn to patch he could get penetration on bare skin but nothing as bad as a skinned knee or elbow as far as "wound" went. Of course what happened in a fellows pants was a might embarrassing for a couple of fellows so in future general discussion of "you wanna....?" they were always a no vote for anything involving that farm. Not that anyone was real interested in pushing it after that as I recall.

[RogerDat]

At gun shows every so often I see boxes of Viet Nam war era flechettes for sale. Fairly cheap too. Kind of rusting or corroding a bit now but still with the little fins on the back. Never had any interest. If I'm feeling that anti social I guess I would just use a slug or large shot.

[popper]

Thanks Roger. Pretty much what I've heard, used as a warning shot. No good for (4 legged) pests.

young folks that I might or might not have been with I like that disclaimer!

[DoubleBit]

Been saving spent primers for years. Would surely ruin snakes in 45colt or 44mag pistol shot loads. Anyone actually done this? Just curious, otherwise I just recycle old shot (mostly 8s). Lots of fun and not overly loud.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Not done it, but as primers are brass basically they'd be shorter ranged than lead; Should work but the pattern might be spottier than with fine lead pellets (as primers are larger than #8 or #12 shot by a noticeable margin) and so the payload would have fewer projectiles. Cheap tho.

[oger]

The original article used pieces of tig welding tungsten, just about the hardest thing you can easily get. It made a real mess out of chickens and would get you sued.

[thehangman59]

Piano wire in varying gauges works like a charm also. Especially the wrapped wire ones... stacked in a CCI capsule makes mashed taters.

[Alferd Packer]

Worked with a guy who experimented with shot loads.
He would take 12 ga bare copper wire and wrap it round a nail or a bare welding rod close together tight coils till it looked like a long copper spring compressed.
Then slip it off the steel and cut the coils with a wire pliers into quarter inch to three eighths pieces to load into 45 colt pistol shells .
All copper load in a cutoff 444 Marlin rifle shell using .410 wad.
He said a 444 would chamber if you thin the head a little with a mill file.
I don't recall the powder charge, but he said it was a terror at close range whatever he shot with it.
I would just use lead shot myself.

[frkelly74]

Wonder if anyone has ever developed a boolit that whistles (screams) as it goes downrange.

My grampa always called shotgun slugs " Blue Whistlers" . I have been down range and heard a couple whistle past me.

[popper]

Couldn't anything with steel or 'strong' metal be called AP by ATF?

[rockrat]

I have heard of peppercorns being used, instead of rock salt

[ReloaderFred]

Couldn't anything with steel or 'strong' metal be called AP by ATF?

No. If that was the case, steel, tungsten, bismuth and other non lead shot wouldn't be allowed in shotgun shells.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Jeffrey]

Wonder if anyone has ever developed a boolit that whistles (screams) as it goes downrange.

Bowling balls whistle as the go downrange. https://youtu.be/0Q1waGceDjM

[jaysouth]

Wonder if anyone has ever developed a boolit that whistles (screams) as it goes downrange.

You dun flung a cravin' on me bubba.

[jaysouth]

At gun shows every so often I see boxes of Viet Nam war era flechettes for sale. Fairly cheap too. Kind of rusting or corroding a bit now but still with the little fins on the back. Never had any interest. If I'm feeling that anti social I guess I would just use a slug or large shot.

In VN, back in the day, we tore apart artillery ammo wooden boxes for material and tore apart fleschette rounds and used them for nails.

[Drm50]

We took threaded nose cone off 40mm Bofors ammo. Dumped the contact detonator and air burst fuse. Took the aluminum nose cone and punched two holes in it on flats for wrench. Those made a hell of a whistling noise coming over. Shell had back up tracer unit in base. If it wasn’t set off by contact or air burst fuse each round would detonate when tracer burned out.