Broke my Lee Classic Cast

[abunaitoo]

I was resizing some brass and broke the "Lever Sleeve" on my Lee Classic Cast press.
Not the first time it broke.
Hope Lee will take care of it.
199527199528199529

[ukrifleman]

Does this happen with one particular calibre case and are you lubing the brass before sizing?

If so, your loads must be very hot to require so much pressure to re-size a case.

Secondly, your press looks as if some oil on the moving parts wouldn't go amiss.

ukrifleman.

[lefty o]

im one of the first to trash lee as i dont think they make a very good quality product, and as you can see by the design where the handle meets that part, it naturally forces it apart which imo isnt very good especially meeting with a cast part. on the other hand, a little maintenance goes a long way to keeping equipment running as well as it can.

[Scorpion8]

That lever sleeve is a design flaw with a high stress area right where that handle exerts pressure against the portion of cut-away. Bad design.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

IMHO, Lee is a genius for incorporating a "weak" link into the design. I have more than one Classic press, I keep a few new extra parts on hand, like the broken part shown in OP.

Lee use to send out parts like that, free of charge, and shipping on their dime...and they may do that here as well. But it seems more recently that they quit doing that, in favor of offering the part for free, but ask you to pay for shipping. If that is the case, I'd ask for a few other spare parts at this time, if you are paying shipping anyway. parts I'd suggest, if you use the Lee saftey prime, get a couple springs for that as well as a spare large primer arm assembly, they get dinged up easily and a tough to straighten out. If you use a Turret press, get a couple index ratchets. If you use the Pro-Auto-Disk measure, get a couple elastimer wipers. If you use their universal deprimer die, get a extra decap pin. There is more, those are just the things right off the top of my head.

[lefty o]

a genius for making it weak hmmm. a smart guy would have built it to handle the stress of sizing big cases, and built in a little safety margin.

[dragon813gt]

a genius for making it weak hmmm. a smart guy would have built it to handle the stress of sizing big cases, and built in a little safety margin.

In this case I 100% agree. This isn't the plastic ratchet on the LCT. The ratchet braking before a metal part does is a good thing. My question is what is the OP doing to his presses? The press looks to be in horrible shape. How can you let your tools go like that?

[3006guns]

The OP may have just saved me some money.

I was seriously considering a Lee Classic Cast as a replacement for my aging Rock Chucker. All the reviews give it high marks and the primer disposal is good in my opinion........HOWEVER.........I was under the impression that the part in the pic was steel like the linkage, not cast iron. Although it can be argued that it is an overstress safety feature, it's still a cast part and not up to repeated cycles evidently.

I'll give it some more thought, but that really shook my faith in Lee design.

[ukrifleman]

I see the `Lee bashers` are out in force!

I have used a Lee Classic turret press with the same lever system for a number of years and have never had such a problem.

I load 17 calibres with it from .357 to 30-06

I would be surprised if the linkage was cast iron, as it would be too brittle.

You can subject the linkage to a huge amount of torque if you really bear down on the lever.

The amount of force to cause such a failure, would be far more than was needed to correctly F/L size any case that the press could accommodate.

Judging by the state of the press and the fact that the OP has said this isn't the first occasion he has broken this part, In his place I think I would be inclined to revaluate my reloading procedures and how I look after my kit.

ukrifleman

[dkf]

Looks like the press has seen quite a bit of pressure on a repetitive basis by looking at the sleeve that broke at the notch where the handle goes through. Edges look peened over. The part is either sintered powder or MIM, never looked at mine to close. Having a cheaper and fairly easy part break before other more important and expensive parts is a good idea. If you are putting a lot of force on the press you may want to buy an extra part, they are not that expensive. My Classic Cast is still running along fine.

[shoot-n-lead]

I love my Lee Classic Cast...love it enough that I sold my Rock Chucker years ago...never looked back.

[dragon813gt]

Many people use this press for Swaging bullets. That puts a lot more stress on the press than any standard reloading operation is going to do. I don't know how you'd break it once let alone twice.

[Tracy]

I have three Rock Chuckers and cannot imagine any situation where I would get rid of one and buy a Classic Cast.
My advice for the owner of this press is to get the part from Lee to fix it, preferably on Lee's dime (good luck with that); then fix it, clean it up and sell it. Then buy a Rockchucker.

Now, a couple of comments: A Rockchucker would be unlikely to break like this (or any other way), but if it did, there is zero question that RCBS would fix or replace it with no out of pocket expense to you. Even if you were the tenth owner; doesn't matter.

I am a fan of some Lee products such as their reloading dies, collet NSO dies, bullet molds (they're not wonderful but they work and the price is right), and the classic Lee Loader kits. But when it comes to the Classic Cast press I am an admitted basher because it deserves to be bashed. I remember when Lee used to publish magazine ads deriding RCBS and others for making big, heavy cast iron presses with lifetime warranties. Now they make a "me too" copycat big, heavy cast iron press for nearly the same price as the guys who always made big, heavy presses, only they fielded a substandard design and omitted the lifetime warranty. They deserve to be bashed for that.

[sghart3578]

"Now, a couple of comments: A Rockchucker would be unlikely to break like this (or any other way), but if it did, there is zero question that RCBS would fix or replace it with no out of pocket expense to you. Even if you were the tenth owner; doesn't matter."

RCBS isn't the be all-end all to the customer service question. I have tried twice to get small parts for the priming system on my RCBS turret. Placed two calls over the span of 10 months, offered to pay both times. Never got any parts from them.

I just bought an RCBS neck sizing die for 7.62X54R (Lee doesn't make one). Before I had finished 40 cases the threads on the sizing ball stripped and left the sizing ball inside a case.

I have a ton of Lee stuff and a Dillon 450 dedicated to .223. All are good, none are perfect. My Lee Classic Cast is better than the old 70's vintage Rockchucker that I gave to my little brother.

[country gent]

Cast parts can be very good borderline or not so great. A lot of casting shops are now bringing the metals in molten on trucks. filling the furnace with a borderline mix a couple times makes a weak mix. These shops casting die cast aluminum, mish metals, and pot metals due this as its cheaper than ingots and complete melting and its down time. A properly cast part of proper alloy for it is a good parts and holds up well. But again so many things affect the final product. A cold pour may fill out and look good but be pourous, Same when the shot tube is sticky or sluggish. The pressure to make a complete homogenus casting isn't there. On press where there is a lot of force some parts are better off machined. but that's a more expensive way of manufacturering. Ill bet Lee sends him a new one and all will be good there. Maybe another .050-.100 on side would greatly strengthen this part but again that raises costs of the final product. Most loading presses have cast frames on them if aluminum or iron / steel. I'm betting these frames have more force on them than the part did here.

[dragon813gt]

The Rock Chucker is an outdated press w/ poor ergonomics and horrible primer disposal. I have both a Rockchucker and LCC and can't tell you the last time I used the Rockchucker. But I don't bash either brand because I know it's personal preference.

Now let's discuss warranty. You pay a premium for the RCBS warranty. Which is inconsistent and slow IME. RCBS has charged me for parts and I've waited upwards of a month to receive them. Other times there was no charge and I received the parts quickly. The few times I've had to use Lee's warranty I filled out the online form and was informed the next day the parts were shipping to me free of charge. Everyone is going to have different experiences. But make no mistake, you pay for the RCBS warranty when you buy their product new. Lee doesn't charge this premium which is one of the reasons they cost less.

[dkf]

I used the Rock Chucker prior to buying my LCC, didn't care for it all. I asked myself why people push them so hard because I don't see the big deal with them. Lots of good presses out there.

[Juan Jose]

I was resizing some brass and broke the "Lever Sleeve" on my Lee Classic Cast press.
Not the first time it broke.
Hope Lee will take care of it.
199527199528199529
Is that paint over spray or is it corrosion? It's hard to tell from the pictures

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I would guess corrosion.
The yellow anodized linkage parts on my presses get some spotty white corrosion on them, where as the bare steel bolts and blued steel handle will get a red/brown rust on them. You can see the color different in the photos.

[ulav8r]

The broken part does look like a weak point, but a weak point should not be needed. If it broke during resizing I would suspect the sizing die was set too low and the ram was stopping against the die with more force being applied trying to stretch the frame. Don't believe that frame would have much stretch.

After seeing this, I would fit a steel band around the part to reinforce it if I ever come up with one of those presses.

[Hamish]

Id be willing to bet $10 that press is at least 10 and more likely 20 years old, and has done MANY thousands of rounds, while sitting out in the salt air of O'ahu,,,,,,,

[EDG]

Not really.
My 1971 press has been subjected to hard use up to splitting of forming dies and nothing on the press has ever failed.
What is wrong with reevaluating your press when it breaks?


I see the `Lee bashers` are out in force!

I have used a Lee Classic turret press with the same lever system for a number of years and have never had such a problem.

I load 17 calibres with it from .357 to 30-06

I would be surprised if the linkage was cast iron, as it would be too brittle.

You can subject the linkage to a huge amount of torque if you really bear down on the lever.

The amount of force to cause such a failure, would be far more than was needed to correctly F/L size any case that the press could accommodate.

Judging by the state of the press and the fact that the OP has said this isn't the first occasion he has broken this part, In his place I think I would be inclined to revaluate my reloading procedures and how I look after my kit.

ukrifleman

[Eddie17]

I'm going to support the first response, do you lube your press?

[Grmps]

LEE http://leeprecision.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1 the part is free with $5.77 shipping

[KenT7021]

I believe there is an individual on the British Militaria Forums that will tell you not to use one of those presses near a restored Corvette.I'll personally stick with my RCBS and Lyman presses.

[troyboy]

The Lee CC is an excellent press. Opinions are just that. Mechanical things break.

[CraigOK]

I did the same thing a few years ago, seems like they sent out a replacement part on their dime. I still use some Lee products, and will likely buy more. Good value for certain items, not worth the hassle for others.

[abunaitoo]

Got it when it first came out. No idea when that was.
Press is outside.
What looks like corrosion is sawdust.
I cover it, but sawdust get into everything.
Sawdust and lube helps keep it from rusting.
Press was taken apart and lubed with Super Lube when new, and the last time the same part broke.
Will do the same this time.
This will actually be the third time changing these parts.
First time was when it was new, The handle would bind. They did a redesign and sent the new design part.
Worked fine after new design parts installed.
Press is used for full length sizing, boolet sizing and forming cases, No loading.
It's a good press, except for this one weak link..
The material they use to make the part that broke is called "Sintered metal "http://www.powderedmetalparts.com/sintered-metal-parts/.
It's powdered metal, formed with heat and pressure, into the shape desired.
I think if they machined it out of a solid piece of metal, it would be stronger.
Other than this part, I've never had a problem with it.

[brassrat]

This part looks a lot different than the one on mine. I just oiled all around ,again.

[Ozark Howler]

I have two Classic Cast presses that have loaded many (many) rounds without a hitch, both of my Lee's still look like new, regular cleaning and lubing with oil helps keep them operating. If you look at the Lee handle design you will see that the handle actually passes thru a solid steel bushing that mates with the sleeve (broken in your pic), it almost looks like the through linkage bolt was not secured enough to keep the steel bushing and sleeve tight enough to maintain a solid binding effect on the arm.
Your problem may have also been experienced by others since this part is available now from MidwayUSA

[sawinredneck]

I remember getting to play with new things when I was working in a mold shop, most of the mold builders were scared to death of aluminum, didn't understand how to machine it! I got to play with ASP30, not sure what it came to afterwards, but you could only take .015" a pass with carbide on a Bridgeport, trust me, I tried more, BEFORE heat treatment! I also got to play with sintered endmills, not sure how far they ever got? But they were truer and didn't have the chattering ground endmills had. Wouldn't mind having a few around now honestly.
Anyway, sintered done right, is rather impressive in my book!

[country gent]

If machined from bar stock that part would be expensive to make due to the flat spine set up for allowing the handle angle to be adjusted. Bore a steel bushing at the size of the part-.001-.002 size burr both ends turn outside to .1 wall thickness and super glue the part together, this for ease in handling and press into tube / bushing. mill or file in the handle radious and re assemble it. Thesleeve will hold and support it the press fit keeps it together. The sleeve need to go from flush at handle end to slightly below the flat spines depth so they can still engage.

[abunaitoo]

Bolt was tight. Nothing loose.
If I remember correct, both broke in the same way.
This press has been used hard.
Form lots of cases.
Probably not designed to do case forming.
Still a good press.

[Three44s]

I don't understand how you can get that much force on a press of that build and not weld brass into every die you own?

Three44s

[MT Chambers]

I'm gonna call B.S. on this one, according to the Lee "experts" on here that press is bulletproof and stronger, more precise, than a Rockchucker or Co-ax, I read it here, so it must be true!!!

[Traffer]

I broke the same part on mine. It was because I OVER TORQUED the bolt that holds it in. They should put torque specs in the instructions. I put the new one in and did not over torque it and I dare say it will never fail. The part was about $5.

[Traffer]

There are a lot of people here that love to bad mouth Lee. Most probably never used one. The Lee classic cast is a very good unit at a very good price.

[dragon813gt]

There are a lot of people here that love to bad mouth Lee. Most probably never used one. The Lee classic cast is a very good unit at a very good price.

I bet you can guess which members bash the brand every chance they get. It's been pointed out many times before. If Lee wasn't around there would be a lot less reloaders. They allow people to take up the hobby for little investment. Most end up buying other brand equipment over time. If RCBS and Redding where the only manufacturers there would be a lot less reloaders. It's all personal preference. Use what ever brand equipment you want. You won't convince me that a piece of equipment I have and like is junk just because you say it is. I'm betting most people are the same.

[dkf]

I broke the same part on mine. It was because I OVER TORQUED the bolt that holds it in. They should put torque specs in the instructions. I put the new one in and did not over torque it and I dare say it will never fail. The part was about $5.

That does make sense since the handle would essentially trying to split the part at the center of the "U".

[Char-Gar]

58 years of reloading and never broke a reloading press. 58 years of reloading and never owned but one Lee, which I trashed in short order. A fellow is using it as a trot line weight.

[Traffer]

Some folks are describing a different press here. The Lee Classic Cast is all steel. Lee did re-design the similar part on their smaller "O" style press. I believe it is called a "breech lock" press. My brother had one that he had glued together. I bought the updated parts and rebuilt it for him. It cost about $25. That model had a non steel fulcrum part that they changed to steel. The Classic Cast however is susceptible to OVER TIGHTENING like I stated. It can be crushed by the through bolt. Here are some standard torque specs for bolts. I don't have mine handy but I believe it is a 5/16 grade 8 coarse thread which according to this table would take 25 ft lbs MAX. I believe that 20 would be plenty. (hey that rimes 20 would be plenty) .
http://www.almabolt.com/pages/catalog/bolts/tighteningtorque.htm

[mdi]

Lee Haters get real tiresome. Perhaps some of these "key board engineers" could volunteer their expertise to Lee? First thing I saw was a rusty, corroded press. Perhaps the humidity of HI contributed, but I take care of my tools and in over 30 years of reloading never allowed tool to get to that state of neglect. Perhaps the OP used the press for more than just sizing/reloading? The Lee Haters weren't there when the part broke, so their opinions are just assumptions...

[abunaitoo]

Didn't know there was a torque to the bolt.
Next time I'll have to torque it.
Press is also used for forming cases.
Some cases need lots of force.
Looking at the design, the part that broke is a weak link.
Two points of force, in different directions.
Bolt pulling the handle into the slot, and handle trying to pull it apart sideways.
Old handle design was much stronger. But made of aluminium made it weaker.
I like Lee stuff. Started out reloading with Lee tools.

[lefty o]

Lee Haters get real tiresome. Perhaps some of these "key board engineers" could volunteer their expertise to Lee? First thing I saw was a rusty, corroded press. Perhaps the humidity of HI contributed, but I take care of my tools and in over 30 years of reloading never allowed tool to get to that state of neglect. Perhaps the OP used the press for more than just sizing/reloading? The Lee Haters weren't there when the part broke, so their opinions are just assumptions...

doing a little hating yourself ehh?!!!

[EDG]

In real life I am an engineer and it gives me a good basis for my opinions.
Lee first made presses about 20 years after I started reloading with one so I have quite a bit more time using a press than Lee does.
Any engineer can tell you that die cast aluminum makes a sorry material for reloading presses. Anyone can tell you that using molded plastic for the die seating stem is not a good idea yet Lee did both.
I have seen many mistakes that Lee has made and many of them have to do with lack of adequate testing before he puts the product on the market. Did you ever notice how he never gets priming tools right the first time?


Lee Haters get real tiresome. Perhaps some of these "key board engineers" could volunteer their expertise to Lee? First thing I saw was a rusty, corroded press. Perhaps the humidity of HI contributed, but I take care of my tools and in over 30 years of reloading never allowed tool to get to that state of neglect. Perhaps the OP used the press for more than just sizing/reloading? The Lee Haters weren't there when the part broke, so their opinions are just assumptions...

[Ozark Howler]

In real life I am an engineer and it gives me a good basis for my opinions.
Lee first made presses about 20 years after I started reloading with one so I have quite a bit more time using a press than Lee does.
Any engineer can tell you that die cast aluminum makes a sorry material for reloading presses. Anyone can tell you that using molded plastic for the die seating stem is not a good idea yet Lee did both.
I have seen many mistakes that Lee has made and many of them have to do with lack of adequate testing before he puts the product on the market. Did you ever notice how he never gets priming tools right the first time?

Can't totally agree with your assumption of Lee designs/engineering. Most reloading press designs have issue that should have been caught prior to their introduction. A few examples; RCBS's useless primer catcher on their latest Rockchucker, a good example of a bad idea, Lyman's cam-over issues with their T-mag & Crusher presses, CH's use of "aluminum" for their 4 die platforms, Redding's known ram alignment issues/problems, and last but not least, as for "getting it right", have you ever noticed how many redesigns the Rockchucker has had since introduced...count 'em.

My life's expertise has been in quality control and engineering design issues, and I found that most products have issues at some level, some worse that others. In my 50+ years of reloading I've seen many problems with various tools used in this industry, Lee's are no different than the others.

[cptjack]

fixed me lee press with J-B weld and a hose clamp worked for years ordered the upgraded part ,and a large rifle primer c, parts were free ,but 15.00 shipping ,don't see any difference in upgraded part

[mdi]

doing a little hating yourself ehh?!!!
Yeah, I worked with "tool snobs" for many years (25 years as Heavy Equipment Mechanic/Electrician for a major city's Water and Power department) and got really tired of the ignorance, arrogance and badmouthing of every other brand ("If it ain't Snap-On [or MAC or whatever] it's junk).

[Hannibal]

I broke a similar part on my Breech Lock Challenger when I first started reloading bottleneck cartridges. At the time, I wasn't happy about it. Sent an inquiry to Lee and they sent me the new part, free, and on their dime.

Since then, I've learned a couple of things. One, Cabela's case lube in the spray bottle is NOT my favorite case lube, and two, brass from a chain gun is NOT worth the trouble to reload.

Still using that press. Haven't had any more problems.

[opos]

I have never had any issue with a Lee press and I have 3 including a classic cast breech lock...Have no idea how cleanliness can affect strength but I keep all tools clean...might be able to see a flaw becoming a crack if it's clean....I reform several calibers but not some gargantuan forming that would create a torque that it looks like happened there. The scintered metal will have flaws in it..any formed metal "dust" is going to be susceptable...my buddy had a new semi auto .45 from a major manufacturer...saw what looked like a casting flaw or parting line..it was a crack in the frame due to a flaw in the casting.

Lee catches hell from a lot of folks....not from me..but then I have never had a cup of Starbucks coffee that I knew was Starbucks (maybe someone "slipped me a mickey" now and then but not on purpose)....

[mac60]

I bet you can guess which members bash the brand every chance they get. It's been pointed out many times before. If Lee wasn't around there would be a lot less reloaders. They allow people to take up the hobby for little investment. Most end up buying other brand equipment over time. If RCBS and Redding where the only manufacturers there would be a lot less reloaders. It's all personal preference. Use what ever brand equipment you want. You won't convince me that a piece of equipment I have and like is junk just because you say it is. I'm betting most people are the same.

There is one in particular. He has an abject hatred for Lee reloading equipment and the man who founded the company. He has made his feelings known in virtually every thread that so much as mentions Lee reloading equipment. I wholeheartedly agree with dragon813gt. I have one of the presses that is the subject of this thread. Purchased at probably about the same time. I bought it soon after seeing the first advertisement for it. I have pulled that handle many times. I have done some minor case conversion chores with it. I have reloaded cartridges from .32 acp to .44 spl. and .22 Hornet through .300 WSM with it. It is still as tight and smooth as the day I bought it. The OP has explained his storage and use of the press - both of which are most likely less than ideal. The Lee classic cast single stage press is a fine piece of equipment and a joy to use. It is perfectly capable of reloading a wide range of cartridges. If used as intended and given a little care and lubrication at regular intervals it should last a lifetime.

[Whiterabbit]

IMHO, Lee is a genius for incorporating a "weak" link into the design. I have more than one Classic press, I keep a few new extra parts on hand, like the broken part shown in OP.

Lee use to send out parts like that, free of charge, and shipping on their dime...and they may do that here as well. But it seems more recently that they quit doing that, in favor of offering the part for free, but ask you to pay for shipping. If that is the case, I'd ask for a few other spare parts at this time, if you are paying shipping anyway. parts I'd suggest, if you use the Lee saftey prime, get a couple springs for that as well as a spare large primer arm assembly, they get dinged up easily and a tough to straighten out. If you use a Turret press, get a couple index ratchets. If you use the Pro-Auto-Disk measure, get a couple elastimer wipers. If you use their universal deprimer die, get a extra decap pin. There is more, those are just the things right off the top of my head.


a genius for making it weak hmmm. a smart guy would have built it to handle the stress of sizing big cases, and built in a little safety margin.

Never liked the use of shear pins, hmm?

Anyways, I agree with the first statement, sort of. I don't know if it's an intentional weakness incorporated, but mine broke once too. I am glad it was a $5 part and not a $50 precision ground hardened shaft or something that failed.

I hate when my $300 TV tube protects my 10 cent fuse by blowing first.

[country gent]

Having used several Lee presses over the years, They are good tools one thing I would like to see is thicker linkage bars. On the presses as the holes tend to wear egg shaped faster. Other wise they are good tools my little c bench press was under 30.00 and lasted for a lot of years before I retired it. This little press did a lot of full length sizing of .308, .243, .223, 30-06, 38-55, 40-65,45-70, 45-90 and handgun calibers as well. I also did some bullet sizing on it.

[jetinteriorguy]

I find it interesting that no matter how hard the Lee bashers try, Lee is still around and probably doing better than ever. Must really bother some people. I've also noticed that people who use Lee products tend to be quite loyal customers, even though they also use other companies products. I have a lot of Lee products, some RCBS, some Lyman, and some Hornady and like them all. I have had a couple of dogs from Lee, but by and far have been more than happy with them and am always impressed by their innovation.

[lefty o]

I find it interesting that no matter how hard the Lee bashers try, Lee is still around and probably doing better than ever. Must really bother some people. I've also noticed that people who use Lee products tend to be quite loyal customers, even though they also use other companies products. I have a lot of Lee products, some RCBS, some Lyman, and some Hornady and like them all. I have had a couple of dogs from Lee, but by and far have been more than happy with them and am always impressed by their innovation.

lee will be around as long as Americans buy the cheapest junk they can. just like all the chinese **** that comes into this country, it wont stop because the average American is a cheapskate.
and as long as lee bashers are around, we'll have those people who feel the need to bash the lee bashers.

[mdi]

lee will be around as long as Americans buy the cheapest junk they can. just like all the chinese **** that comes into this country, it wont stop because the average American is a cheapskate.
and as long as lee bashers are around, we'll have those people who feel the need to bash the lee bashers.
There will be Lee fans around as long as there are intelligent, open minded, knowledgeable folks reloading. Personally, I don't know anybody that buys any tools based solely on how cheap they are (the tools and the buyer). It's just tiresome to read biased "reports"/complaints from those that can't even use a hammer work correctly...

[jcwit]

I lube ALL my cases before sizing! Why, it just makes it easier for an old man with arthrits. What do I lube the cases wirh? Just a spritz with silicone in a tub full of cases, it only takes second or two to do it.

[dragon813gt]

lee will be around as long as Americans buy the cheapest junk they can. just like all the chinese **** that comes into this country, it wont stop because the average American is a cheapskate.
and as long as lee bashers are around, we'll have those people who feel the need to bash the lee bashers.

Really? So I'm a cheapskate even though I can afford to buy any brand I please. I could easily took up w/ all Redding products for the twenty two cartridges I reload for one in one swoop. That means buy all the tooling at one time. You can't paint everyone w/ such a broad brush.

I hate that people feel the need to bash them more than anything. I don't care what brand tools you use. It's the people that insist on bashing a product they don't use that bothers me. I don't comment on Lyman tools I don't have. Same goes for the other brands. Lee isn't going anywhere because they produce products that allow you to load accurate ammo at a good price. I could post my results showing I have less run out w/ Lee dies but the detractors won't believe it anyway.

[jcwit]

lee will be around as long as Americans buy the cheapest junk they can. just like all the chinese **** that comes into this country, it wont stop because the average American is a cheapskate.
and as long as lee bashers are around, we'll have those people who feel the need to bash the lee bashers.

Let us all know just where you buy all this non-Chinese products.

[lefty o]

a few of you need to untwist your panties. i didnt point out anyones name , its up to you to judge what you are, what you use to reload etc. i cant do it for you. all the while you guys bash those that you say bash lee...................... pot, meet kettle!

[sghart3578]

You mean like the chinese made RCBS Turret that I bought used? The one with so much slop in the heads that I have to shim them with arbor shims from Granger?

And I want to second Hannibal's comment about Cabela's case lube.

I tried a bottle because it was half the cost of RCBS lube. (I guess that makes me a cheap American).

It was a bad choice. I took the lube back and it took me over half an hour to convince two knuckleheads to refund my money.

So much for Cabela's satisfaction guaranteed warranty.

[lightload]

Since I neither swage or case form, the Lee Classic Cast would out last me. Probably, most others are in the same category as I. If I performed either task, I'd use an older Rockchucker or CH Champion. If I did swage and form cases and used a Lee press, then I'd have on hand those parts subject to breaking. Even the big Redding Ultra Mag--according to its maker--is not rated for swaging.

[jetinteriorguy]

Interesting to compare buying Lee products to buying cheap Chinese stuff when you consider all Lee products are made right here in the good old USA.

[abunaitoo]

I've never tried to swage on this press.
Didn't think it would take it.
I did form cases on it.
Some took lots of force.
Probably not designed for amount of force I'm putting on it.
I still like it.
Nothing wrong with Lee products.
Kind of like Craftsman vs. Snap-on tools.
Snap -on is a beautiful tool, but Craftsman will take the nut off just as well.

[lefty o]

Interesting to compare buying Lee products to buying cheap Chinese stuff when you consider all Lee products are made right here in the good old USA.

the association was made to reference the fact that most americans are CHEAP, and thats why the vast majority of anything bought in this country was made in china.

[Recluse]

The OP may have just saved me some money.

I was seriously considering a Lee Classic Cast as a replacement for my aging Rock Chucker. All the reviews give it high marks and the primer disposal is good in my opinion........HOWEVER.........I was under the impression that the part in the pic was steel like the linkage, not cast iron. Although it can be argued that it is an overstress safety feature, it's still a cast part and not up to repeated cycles evidently.

I'll give it some more thought, but that really shook my faith in Lee design.

I replaced a Rock Chucker probably six or seven years ago. It was a toss-up between the Redding Big Boss II and the Lee Classic Cast. I bought the Classic Cast on the recommendation of a number of folks here who were happy with theirs. But when it arrived, it was rougher than hell when working the ram--so much so that I sent it back to Lee.

And that was when the problems started. I was told by a (young) Lee family member that there was nothing wrong with the ram and that the "roughness" wasn't rough and they couldn't hear or feel anything. It felt like 50 grit sandpaper rubbing every time you operated the ram. Long story short, I told Lee to keep the SOB and to keep my money and that I was done with them. A week later, they send the press back to me and they had smoothed out the ram. This was not a new/different press because I'd made some discreet etching marks on the base. They had re-machined the ram and openings. It is as smooth as smooth can be and I honestly don't have any complaints about it--but that back and forth experience infuriated me.


lee will be around as long as Americans buy the cheapest junk they can. just like all the chinese **** that comes into this country, it wont stop because the average American is a cheapskate.
and as long as lee bashers are around, we'll have those people who feel the need to bash the lee bashers.


the association was made to reference the fact that most americans are CHEAP, and thats why the vast majority of anything bought in this country was made in china.

Well, I'd be curious to know what kind of computer you're typing on right now. I, as a cheapskate looking to buy the cheapest junk I can, am typing on a Macbook Pro Retina with all the horsepower Apple could build into this particular machine. Three iPads, along with two iPhones and a monster iMac G5 upstairs in our office rounds out the computer ensemble here in the house. More Apple products out in my reloading shop as well as in my airplane hangar.

Speaking of which. . . we're building a new airplane (RV9) and for the (instrument) panel, going all Garmin premium for both the MFD and GPS/coms. Could've gone with Dynon or another brand and saved some money, but I guess we just weren't feeling all that "cheapskate" looking to "buy junk made in China." In fact, we did the same thing for our Cessna and installed a completely refurbished Garmin 530W system. Could've been cheapskate and just used the least expensive handheld possible, but we take off and arrive in instrument conditions now and then and "cheapskate junk" wasn't/isn't approved for IFR.

I've got enough different colors of reloading brands and equipment on my bench and in my shop to make any gay pride rainbow logo proud. I see flaws and weaknesses as well as strengths and advantages in every piece of reloading equipment I own. I make my purchase decisions based upon the substance of my need versus the amount of value I wish to invest in against the job I'm asking the tool/equipment to do.

I don't consider that "cheapskate" but rather being fiscally intelligent.

:coffee:

[lefty o]

it was made as a reference, get over it! some of you guys are rediculous.

[Hannibal]

I made the mistake of complaining about a 'Premium' barrel on another forum, and am currently being 'dragged behind the bus' over there. Oddly enough, I did not even disclose the manufacturer of the 'tomato stake'. Seem that matters not.

It appears that complaining about anything, in general, will draw the continual ire of forum members. Particularly if you do not wish to 'out' the manufacturer, and simply plan to cut your losses.

And no amount of apologizing will stem the onslaught.

Sign of the times, I guess.

(Sigh.)

[EDG]

Apparently you are very uninformed about the guts of all your electronics. All most all chips and discreet components come from Asia.

199766


I replaced a Rock Chucker probably six or seven years ago. It was a toss-up between the Redding Big Boss II and the Lee Classic Cast. I bought the Classic Cast on the recommendation of a number of folks here who were happy with theirs. But when it arrived, it was rougher than hell when working the ram--so much so that I sent it back to Lee.

And that was when the problems started. I was told by a (young) Lee family member that there was nothing wrong with the ram and that the "roughness" wasn't rough and they couldn't hear or feel anything. It felt like 50 grit sandpaper rubbing every time you operated the ram. Long story short, I told Lee to keep the SOB and to keep my money and that I was done with them. A week later, they send the press back to me and they had smoothed out the ram. This was not a new/different press because I'd made some discreet etching marks on the base. They had re-machined the ram and openings. It is as smooth as smooth can be and I honestly don't have any complaints about it--but that back and forth experience infuriated me.





Well, I'd be curious to know what kind of computer you're typing on right now. I, as a cheapskate looking to buy the cheapest junk I can, am typing on a Macbook Pro Retina with all the horsepower Apple could build into this particular machine. Three iPads, along with two iPhones and a monster iMac G5 upstairs in our office rounds out the computer ensemble here in the house. More Apple products out in my reloading shop as well as in my airplane hangar.

Speaking of which. . . we're building a new airplane (RV9) and for the (instrument) panel, going all Garmin premium for both the MFD and GPS/coms. Could've gone with Dynon or another brand and saved some money, but I guess we just weren't feeling all that "cheapskate" looking to "buy junk made in China." In fact, we did the same thing for our Cessna and installed a completely refurbished Garmin 530W system. Could've been cheapskate and just used the least expensive handheld possible, but we take off and arrive in instrument conditions now and then and "cheapskate junk" wasn't/isn't approved for IFR.

I've got enough different colors of reloading brands and equipment on my bench and in my shop to make any gay pride rainbow logo proud. I see flaws and weaknesses as well as strengths and advantages in every piece of reloading equipment I own. I make my purchase decisions based upon the substance of my need versus the amount of value I wish to invest in against the job I'm asking the tool/equipment to do.

I don't consider that "cheapskate" but rather being fiscally intelligent.

:coffee:

[lefty o]

I made the mistake of complaining about a 'Premium' barrel on another forum, and am currently being 'dragged behind the bus' over there. Oddly enough, I did not even disclose the manufacturer of the 'tomato stake'. Seem that matters not.

It appears that complaining about anything, in general, will draw the continual ire of forum members. Particularly if you do not wish to 'out' the manufacturer, and simply plan to cut your losses.

And no amount of apologizing will stem the onslaught.

Sign of the times, I guess.

(Sigh.)

i let em all ramble a bit. seems when ever you bring up cheap the whole where is your computer from just has to come up. what they fail to consider is your computer was made in china because Americans dont want to pay for made in the USA. dont bother me if they get themselves worked up.

[Tracy]

Can't totally agree with your assumption of Lee designs/engineering. Most reloading press designs have issue that should have been caught prior to their introduction. A few examples; RCBS's useless primer catcher on their latest Rockchucker, a good example of a bad idea, Lyman's cam-over issues with their T-mag & Crusher presses, CH's use of "aluminum" for their 4 die platforms, Redding's known ram alignment issues/problems, and last but not least, as for "getting it right", have you ever noticed how many redesigns the Rockchucker has had since introduced...count 'em.

My life's expertise has been in quality control and engineering design issues, and I found that most products have issues at some level, some worse that others. In my 50+ years of reloading I've seen many problems with various tools used in this industry, Lee's are no different than the others.

Now that's funny right there, considering that I have never seen nor heard of a broken Rockchucker in all the decades they have been making them. Hearing about and seeing photos of broken Lee presses though, is fairly common.

Here's the thing, though: I like some of Lee's products and don't have a problem with their lightweight presses, especially the hand press. They have their place. But Lee publicly heaped ridicule on manufacturers and buyers of heavy presses, back when they didn't make a heavy press. Now they do make a heavy press, so any ridicule they receive when that press fails is richly deserved, in my book.
Especially when it fails under use that the presses they used to poke fun at, shrug off on a regular basis.

The Rockchucker was designed to swage bullets as well as reload. That's what I want (and have) on my bench; not something that is designed to look the part but can't deliver.

[Recluse]

Apparently you are very uninformed about the guts of all your electronics. All most all chips and discreet components come from Asia.


Not the least bit uninformed. But I'd hardly call $40K worth of avionics "Chinese made junk" or "fit for a typical American cheapskate" when it is the industry standard. And the day I find a PC/tablet/device that will last as long as any Apple product I've had--which goes back to 1987 when I got my first one--that can give me the same ROI, I'll do it.

I get weary as hell of the holier-than-thou alpha-hotels who call others here "cheapskates" or "junk collectors" based on said member's preference of brands and think that because they own/prefer blue or powder green equipment, that they themselves are somehow economically and fiscally superior to those who chose different colors and thus attempt to position themselves as such.

I've sent Dillon equipment back to Arizona and was never called a "cheapskate," but let someone send Lee or some other brand back for a problem, and they're a cheapskate.

:coffee:

[lefty o]

. But Lee publicly heaped ridicule on manufacturers and buyers of heavy presses, back when they didn't make a heavy press. Now they do make a heavy press, so any ridicule they receive when that press fails is richly deserved, in my book.
Especially when it fails under use that the presses they used to poke fun at, shrug off on a regular basis.

The Rockchucker was designed to swage bullets as well as reload. That's what I want (and have) on my bench; not something that is designed to look the part but can't deliver.

nailed it!!

[Ozark Howler]

Now that's funny right there, considering that I have never seen nor heard of a broken Rockchucker in all the decades they have been making them. Hearing about and seeing photos of broken Lee presses though, is fairly common.

Here's the thing, though: I like some of Lee's products and don't have a problem with their lightweight presses, especially the hand press. They have their place. But Lee publicly heaped ridicule on manufacturers and buyers of heavy presses, back when they didn't make a heavy press. Now they do make a heavy press, so any ridicule they receive when that press fails is richly deserved, in my book.
Especially when it fails under use that the presses they used to poke fun at, shrug off on a regular basis.

The Rockchucker was designed to swage bullets as well as reload. That's what I want (and have) on my bench; not something that is designed to look the part but can't deliver.


My comment regarding the RCBS Rockchucker (which I owned a few) was referring to the ongoing redesigns within the model series. Usually when a product is redesigned it is either to improve the product itself, or improve the profit margin (Marketing 101 teaches you that new and improved usually equates to cheaper made and more expensive). From what I've seen of RCBS lately, is that the margin seems to be the target, not the product (Chinese casting, ?). The current Rockchucker Supreme (?) is quite a shift from the original A series, or RC models which were great presses, the newer line appears (IMO) to fall short of it's heritage. As for using the current Rockchucker for swaging, you will need to purchased a model that RCBS has specially designed for that purpose, the off the shelf model is not up to the task.

The whole point of this thread has kind of fallen off the mark, a 4 dollar part broke on a Lee press and everyone's is trashing Lee (big deal), spend a few bucks, replace the part and get on with reloading!. As a note to the wise, the Lee CC is also used to FL resize 50 BMG rounds, checkout Midway's review from 50 cal. users, they seem quite happy with it's performance. Lee's competition doesn't have much to offer in that area, unless your willing to take out a mortgage on a new press.

Let's move on........

[EDG]

The inside of your electronics came from the same place all the other stuff comes from.
All of it will wind up in the trash in about 2 years when the next big deal is released.
Buying top of the line electronics keeps you at the leading edge about 2 to 3 months and then your hot shot electronics will be surpassed by something else.
You may have paid $40K for something worth $5K now.
Everyone knows that if it is for a boat or a plane it cost 10 times what it costs on the consumer market.
You can go examine your nearest local Alpha Hotel in the mirror remind yourself of how you appear to others.
I think Brian Schul mentioned you asking for a ground speed check in Sled Driver. jajajajajaja

You are sawing your own limb off to claim any ROI on consumer electronics. You don't make money with them they are toys. The only people that need a top of the line PC are folks running solid modeling programs and those playing graphics intensive games.


Not the least bit uninformed. But I'd hardly call $40K worth of avionics "Chinese made junk" or "fit for a typical American cheapskate" when it is the industry standard. And the day I find a PC/tablet/device that will last as long as any Apple product I've had--which goes back to 1987 when I got my first one--that can give me the same ROI, I'll do it.

I get weary as hell of the holier-than-thou alpha-hotels who call others here "cheapskates" or "junk collectors" based on said member's preference of brands and think that because they own/prefer blue or powder green equipment, that they themselves are somehow economically and fiscally superior to those who chose different colors and thus attempt to position themselves as such.

How about just staying on the subject? Admit your Apple stuff is not made in the USA.

I've sent Dillon equipment back to Arizona and was never called a "cheapskate," but let someone send Lee or some other brand back for a problem, and they're a cheapskate.

:coffee:

[Traffer]

For all you guys who are chiming in on Lee presses, this is a Lee Classic Cast. I broke the very same part the first time I used mine. I over-tightened the through bolt that held the handle in place. It literally cracked the part so it broke with almost no pressure. Now here is what I wanted to add to the thread. My brother has an old Lee "O" style press that looks exactly like my Classic cast. He berated mine all time, even when I told him that his only LOOKED LIKE my press. I finally took my press to his house so he could see it in person. His jaw hit the floor. His and mine look exactly alike in pictures. Mine is 10 times stronger, bigger and heavier. The Lee Classic Cast press HAS NO ALUMINUM ON IT, not one part is aluminum. It is all steel. The body is made from melted down railroad tracks. All other parts are steel. I fixed my brothers old Lee press for him. Lee made an all steel upgrade for it. It is still a little toy type thing but at least now he can use it for normal reloading.
I use mine for swaging 22lr. I have a screw type press for case forming entire cases with those old hammer type dies. Even with a big screw "like a screw jack" those shells are very hard to size in those dies. I could see where even a Lee classic cast would have trouble with something like that. With that said. I have put a lot of pressure on mine. To the point where I thought I was bending the heavy hardened steel handle. But it did not bend. I would say that the handle would snap before that part would break UNLESS YOU OVER-TIGHTEN it like I did. For those of you who think that the press that is being spoken of here is that old toy aluminum Lee that looks like this one...This is the same press that is the Lee 50 BMG press. It handles 50 bmg with no problem. Again, there are absolutely no aluminum or pot metal parts on it. It is all steel and cast iron.
Now talk.

[Traffer]

nailed it!!

I have heard several folks who own both rock chucker and classic cast say that the classic cast was a better press...even though it is 1/4 to 1/3 the price.

[abunaitoo]

"[QUOTE=Recluse;4101175]I replaced a Rock Chucker probably six or seven years ago. It was a toss-up between the Redding Big Boss II and the Lee Classic Cast. I bought the Classic Cast on the recommendation of a number of folks here who were happy with theirs. But when it arrived, it was rougher than hell when working the ram--so much so that I sent it back to Lee.
And that was when the problems started. I was told by a (young) Lee family member that there was nothing wrong with the ram and that the "roughness" wasn't rough and they couldn't hear or feel anything. It felt like 50 grit sandpaper rubbing every time you operated the ram. Long story short, I told Lee to keep the SOB and to keep my money and that I was done with them. A week later, they send the press back to me and they had smoothed out the ram. This was not a new/different press because I'd made some discreet etching marks on the base. They had re-machined the ram and openings. It is as smooth as smooth can be and I honestly don't have any complaints about it--but that back and forth experience infuriated me."

That's the same thing that happened to me when I first got it.
Really tight and gritty.
They sent me some new parts, and it was smooth a silk.
Until it broke.
I still like this press.

[jmort]

I have heard several folks who own both rock chucker and classic cast say that the classic cast was a better press...even though it is 1/4 to 1/3 the price.

Yes
Correct
Exactly

[EDG]

They did not have a Lee Classic Cast for $35 or any other price in 1971 when I bought my press.
Whoever gets to the market first often gets a big advantage. In 1971 Lee was still marketing whack a moles.



I have heard several folks who own both rock chucker and classic cast say that the classic cast was a better press...even though it is 1/4 to 1/3 the price.

[Recluse]

My brother has an old Lee "O" style press that looks exactly like my Classic cast.

I bought a Lee Challenger press back in '88 and loaded thousands of rifle rounds and magnum pistol rounds with it with exactly zero problems. When Lee came out with the heavier steel assemblies for the handle and ram movement, I bought a kit for the Challenger press. It now serves duty as a sizing press for my cast projectiles via the push-through sizing dies after the Hi-Tek coating is done, as a de-priming and priming press, and for use with my Hornady bullet-puller.


I have heard several folks who own both rock chucker and classic cast say that the classic cast was a better press...even though it is 1/4 to 1/3 the price.

I don't like the word "better" when comparing most presses. Rather, "preferable" makes more sense to me. I grew up with a Rockchucker and for a long time, I really liked that "cam over" travel on the handle when I was doing all my loading single-stage.

All reloading equipment produces the same finished product--a loaded round. Some do it in ways and via mechanical movements that are more preferable to others, less so to the rest. The Dillon 550 has an almost cult-like following in the progressive crowd, even though it is a manual indexing press--and the manual indexing drove me up the wall. I prefer the 650. But it doesn't make the 650 "better," but rather more preferable for my purposes and preferences.

:coffee:

[greenjoytj]

I broke this same part on my 2006 LEE Classic Cast press this summer. I was neck sizing 22 Hornet with the LEE collet neck sizing die, your supposed to apply 25lbs to the press handle to close the collet, I suppose I was pulling too hard. I ordered replacement part online plus a spare.
I now consider that free replacement part a safety fuse that blows to protect the rest of the press.
Still love this press I have no complains about its quality or durability.

[MT Chambers]

Yeah well that's nothing, I traded a Ponsness Warren loader($1000) and a Spolar loader($2000) for a Lee Load-all 12 gauge!

[Ed in North Texas]

I have both a Chuck and a couple of Classic Cast single stage presses. One Lee is used for depriming large amounts of brass, the other for reloading chores. I form .270 to a slightly long 7x57 for my 1910 Roller using a trim die without any problems (use Imperial for all case forming). Annealing is after, not before. I can punch an "unbreakable" primer stem in a deprime die through the head of a Berdan case with the Classic Cast. The Chuck can do the same. Both fit the large .577 die sets. The Lees cost me just over $100 new, delivered. The Chuck cost me quite a bit more quite a while ago when I was still using my Lyman Spartan and Spar-T (the youngest son has those and they still are going strong). In doing bulk work I miss the set screw seating of the case holder, the spring allows them to slip around instead of staying in exactly the same spot (I push the finished case out with the next case, drops into a big plastic bin on the floor).

I don't use the press to prime, so pulled the roll pin for the primer punches out of the ram so the primers wouldn't hit it and bounce out the cutout for the primer punch.