Options for 45cal rifle bullet swaging

[tiger762]

Cartridge Length Rim diameter / body diameter
---------------------------------------------------------------------
44 magnum 1.285 0.514/0.457
45 win mag 1.198 0.476/0.476
44 special 1.160 0.514/0.457
44 colt 1.100 0.483/0.457
44 russian 0.970 0.515/0.457
45 acp 0.898 0.476/0.476

So the question is, do you want to shear off a rim, or draw down the whole body diameter? I made up some 458's this morning from 44 special brass. Was using Walnut Hill press and 458 jacket maker set. Shearing off the rim was no joke. Had to adjust the punch about five times to finish the operation but then the rest of the body is perfect diameter for 458. Still requires drawing down to 0.455" but it was a breeze compared to the rim shearing. I have also used 45 Win Mag brass. There, one starts with a smaller diameter (0.473) but has to draw down the whole casing to that diameter. Both are about equal work. When shearing the rims, I ended up with a stack of thin brass rings at the base of the punch.

Enter the 44 Colt. Perfect body diameter (0.457) but a smaller rim diameter of 0.483" !!!

Going to order some from Starline to see how they do. Will definitely be easier than 44 Special. Grafs has it in stock and with FFL discount they're about twenty cents each. Off-topic, it slays me how much people ask for unknown condition fired brass that they think is rare, when Starline regular stocks it. Saw a lot of lowlifes trying that especially during Obama...

Here is a 450 grain that fills lead right to the tip of the 44 Special, with a tiny bit protruding. The overall length of the bullet is 1.192"

[Zbench]

Seems like a lot of work. Why not just use a real jacket?

[Pipefitter]

why dont you try some 10mm brass? A 40S&W will make a good 350gn bullet, 10mm should go even heavier without having to draw down.

[tiger762]

I did buy a butt-ton of 45cal jackets from RCECO back when he was making them. One December he had a sale where everything was 10% off which was the 10,000 quantity discount if I remember correctly. So I bought 20,000 of the 0.58". They are thin-walled for 45acp but I have made some 325's out of them. The copper jacket just barely makes it to the ogive which really is all that is necessary. For heavier work, I would need a 1". When I got the 458 set from a regular here he threw in 200 thick-walled jackets about 1.4" long (maker was someone named Butch Hairfeld?). Dave Corbin's prices are not realistic, notwithstanding marketing BS terms like "match grade"



Seems like a lot of work. Why not just use a real jacket?

[tiger762]

I have used 40S&W for 44cal. Just a bump up from 0.424" to 0.429". The d@mn things still come out egg-shaped. I do not like having such a shallow angle between bullet and barrel. At point of ignition the gas gets wedged inside that and will cut. One thing that does help with the use of cartridge cases as jackets is to put them on a mandrel and turn the rim down on the lathe, leaving a neat boat tail. The core seat was a little more capable of swelling out to finished diameter but then that adds the step of turning rims. I'm just exploring all options..


why dont you try some 10mm brass? A 40S&W will make a good 350gn bullet, 10mm should go even heavier without having to draw down.

[PWS]

Don't know if it helps you any but the vast majority of the slugs I swage for my .458WinMag are made with drawn .308 or '06 based cases, usually range scrap. I'm able to draw them from .478 to .455 in one draw.

The first step is a quick cleaning and then trim to length (taking into consideration the slight lengthening during drawdown). Then thoroughly anneal in a LEE MagDipper pot set at "8" for 45 minutes and covered with a lid of sorts of many layers of aluminum foil. At this point, I like to wet tumble the jackets then draw them through a tapered die. It took some monkeying around to get the punch thin enough that the walls didn't bind and fat enough that it gives maximum support to keep the cases close to square. A little centering tit on the end of the punch helped a lot too. After that, it's core seat and onwards. Typical slugs will group into 2-3" at 100 yards.

Main reason for using 308s or '06 based cases, primarily the .308s, is that there's a huge Coast Guard base in town and the Coasties burn up a lot of Federal American Eagle ammo in their MSRs and leave the brass.

[tiger762]

Roger that. I have used a Harbor Freight mini chop saw to cut down crappy 308 brass. I have not been able to draw in one pull of the handle. I have to keep adjusting the height of the punch until it makes it through the die. How I annealed one batch was to stand them up on a burner on the stove for 15 minutes on high. Annealing needs time and temperature. I like the idea of the Lee lead pot. I could also use a toaster oven I originally got for powder coating.

[uncle dino]

Tiger.. RCE makes a 2 step punch holder to maximize leverage on a hand press for drawing. You just 1/4 turn punch to change leverage while drawing ..saves screwing die in and out.. Or a steel dowel of the right diameter to set on draw punch..if you look on RCE website, you will see dowel sitting next to his cartridge draw dies.. D

[tiger762]

Hi Dino, the 458 draw die I got has a knurled surface on the bottom of the punch. What I have started doing is set the die high in the top plate, so that the punch barely gets the brass to start the draw. Then using that knurled surface, unscrew the punch a little bit. I have a 1.5" block of steel (3"x3") that I put under the punch to push the brass through the die. I think that accomplishes what you're describing with the steel pin. In retrospect, I recall not getting the pin with my set but I'm not sweating it :D

Going to see if the 44 Colt is a viable option. My experience with Starline brass is that it is already annealed. I never get the fold-over after point forming like I do with fired brass. Shearing off that rim though ;)

[BLASTER62]

Butch Hairfield is a good guy knows his stuff,

[Zbench]

Would these work? I drew them with the draw set I got from Dave Corbin. 1.640" long, .065" thick walls and 285 grains. I intend to use them to make bonded bullets for hunting bear and other critters. :)

199556

[M.A.D]

Those are a thing of beauty....

[Huvius]

I've used 45acp for mine.
Once annealed, they size down quite easily.
They are pretty much free too...

[RED333]

I have been using .308 brass, swag it down to .452 or so. Have not loaded any yet, the first I have made with lead comes out at 350 grans. Not gona try them in a Uberity. Waiting on a Ruger SBH in 45 Colt.

[Huvius]

Here's my post on my .458" boolits

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?265350-458(ish)-from-45ACP