44 Magnum rifle. Work up Unique or switch to 2400/296/AA#9...?

[SquidBilly]

I'm having success with 10.5 gr. Unique as an accurate upper end target round. But this is as far as I've loaded 44 Magnum. My SBH and 1894 haven't done much more than punching paper.


I have found my pet loads of 7.5, 9.2 and 10.5 gr. of Unique under a 245 gr. RNFP.

But I've been contemplating getting use out of both guns for hunting this fall. Mostly the 1894 as a good deer/hog 100 yard brush rifle. So I've been mulling over what to do with working up a stouter and acceptably accurate round.

Going to a 2400 would be no big deal. My lgs carries it regularly and I can always go pick some up.

In my data I've seen that some Unique loadings are not getting much less velocity than 2400 loadings.

But with Unique how far can I realistically push it and keep good results? And at what point does a switch to a slower powder become necessary? I've heard the saying that 2400 takes up where Unique leaves off. But I'm also curious at what does power and accuracy suffer with upper end Unique loads that are fewer grains and only 50-100 fps slower than a 2400.

Lyman 2nd Edition Cast Book shows max for 240-250 gr. @ 12 gr. Unique

Lyman Popular Revolver Book is all over the place but shows max for #429421 over 13 gr. Unique @ 1147fps 4" bbl

#429421 with 2400 max of 20.6 gr. @ 1248fps 4" bbl

Would I get a decent hunting round by even trying to build up to 13 gr. of Unique? Or should I just go buy a lbs. of 2400 or No.9?

[Markopolo]

First of all, lots of folks hunt with that lee 310gr boolit. Much heavier, and I like to drive it a bit faster then unique allows... but unique works fine with the 310, as my wife shoots it in my 44 with 10g unique. If your gunna shoot hogzilla, that 310 bullet will work wonders... I use 2400 or H110 for full on 310g loads in rifle. With H110, I am running 22g... and that is a smoking rifle load for me.. 13g of 2400 is a sweet spot as well, but not as fast as the 110, it runs around 1100 FPS...

Marko

[Larry Gibson]

Unique will probably give the best results with the PBd 429421 in the rifle also. That has been my experience with several 44 rifles. Best accuracy at top end has been with GCd bullets over 2400, 4227, Blue Dot or H110. GCd 240 - 275 gr bullets always performed best for me.

Larry Gibson

[Char-Gar]

Unless you are going after elk, moose or big bear your 10.5/Uniq should do you very well.

[SquidBilly]

Thank you for all of the responses.

Looks like Unique has the consensus.

I'll work up some Unique loads between 10.5 and 12.5 and see what I get. Might find me another sweet spot.

[Outpost75]

Your Unique load with #429421 will very closely approximate the performance of Keith's original .44 Special loads he developed with SR80 back in the 1930s, which he writes about in his book Sixguns. I use loads of similar power in my .44 Magnums and in the .44-40, except I use 7.2 grains of Bullseye with the Accurate 43-230G bullet in my Ruger revolvers and Marlin 1894S levergun with Microgroove rifling. I use wheelweights for range work, and 1:30 tin-lead from Roto Metals for hunting loads.

Side-by-Side comparisons fired same day with .44 Magnum “Medium Velocity” loads
fired in two Ruger Vaqueros using the same .44 Magnum cylinder, 20" Marlin 1894S for comparison:

Ammunition assembled in Remington New Factory Primed brass with Remington 2-1/2 primers.

Load Description_________Ruger 5-1/2"______Ruger 7-1/2"____Marlin 20”__Remarks

-------------------------------Cyl.Gap 0.008"-------Cyl.Gap 0.008"------Solid barrel

43-230G 1:30Sn/Pb 7.2BE___978, 18Sd________1044, 21Sd_____1178, 7Sd___1.59” OAL crimped top groove

199448

[quilbilly]

Although I do not have a 44 mag, I do have a 444 Marlin which is basically a 44 mag on steroids. I use two Unique loads, one for a plain base 265 gr SWC which is 12.4 gr for 1350 fps and another for the Lee 310 gr GC boolit which is 14.5 gr for 1490 fps.

[Kosh75287]

I might expect Unique and 2400 to give similar performance in a revolver-length barrel, but I would THINK that 2400 might give somewhat better velocities in a rifle-length barrel. I guess superior performance is in the eye of the beholder, but I suspect that switching to 2400 in the longer barrel will gain you 300 f/s or better over a 10.5/Unique/245 load. H110 or 4227 will probably give you max performance, but I find 2400 a lot easier to work with. The 4227 isn't so awful, but I avoid H110 whenever possible.

[longbow]

I'll advise that you test out the 429421 as it has a long nose and is longer than allowable OAL if crimped in the crimp groove. Apparently some guns don't care but some do and mine was one.

I got poor feeding with the 429421 due to length which was sort of solved by crimping over the front driving band but the SWC nose also had feeding issues. I have worked on the carrier and now have the gun feeding the H&G #503 pretty well. I do not use my 429421 in this gun as it casts undersize for Marlins which have fat bores (SAAMI spec for rifle is larger than for handgun). I also modified the cartridge stop to handle longer OAL which also worked well.

My gun likes and always liked RNFP designs and feeds the Mihec 434640 (Lyman 429640 clone) very well.

As for powder, the Unique load may suit your needs but I started with Unique then tried H110 then IMR4227. My go to powder for the .44 Marlin is IMR4227. I got a lot better performance than with Unique though maybe more than you need, top end loads do kick a bit in that light little gun. I have not used 2400 so can't compare there.

Different strokes.

Longbow

[Shuz]

If Unique is hard to obtain in your area, you may wanna try Green Dot with your 429421. 8.6g behind my 429421HP at 235g, gets 1084 fps from a 5" S&W Classic DX, with an SD of 18. On a day when this old phart "found an acorn", I shot a .703" 5 shot group with this load from a bench rest. Distance was 25 yards. Oh, and the revolver wears a 4X Leupold EER.

[kobeinu]

Sounds like lots of good answers. I couldn't get anything but H110 for weeks so that is what I stuck with for load development. I got holes touching holes at 50yds and very respectable "hair over MOA" at 100yds. Nothing I've shot with the 300gn GC'd Wide Flat Nose goes far.

When I finally get some 2400....

[MT Gianni]

I like AA9 for the 44 top end loads. Not much difference between any of them but it shoots very well for me.

[rintinglen]

In my Marlin CB, 2400 was more accurate than Unique. 18.5 grains was the accuracy champ with a ,432 boollit--429-421.

[Rick R]

I found that I get better accuracy in my pistols and rifle with 2400 or W296/H110 than with Unique. Less muzzle blast with 2400 than W296. So I use 2400 in my hunting ammo, Unique in my plinking loads and W296 in my .300 Blackout.

YMMV

[Jack Stanley]

Actually 10.5 of Unique is my standard .44 magnum load with two hundred forty grain bullets . It gives about a thousand fifty feet per second in the four inch revolver a bit more in the six and just over thirteen hundred out of my twenty inch carbine . It is comfortable and accurate to use even loaning the carbine to the kids for deer season . Bullets leave an entrance an exit on any critter shot so far and none have made it past twenty yards yet .

Jack

[DougGuy]

Thank you for all of the responses.

Looks like Unique has the consensus.

I'll work up some Unique loads between 10.5 and 12.5 and see what I get. Might find me another sweet spot.

You may find yourself WAY BEYOND the pressure ceiling for Unique in the 44 Magnum!

Unique is NOT a magnum powder to be used with heavy boolits. Above 10.0gr in 45 Colt it can become spiky and unpredictable, and the 44 mag case is even smaller? NO.

Time to switch to a slower burning magnum powder like 2400, LilGun, AA#9 for slightly less than max loads, and H110 for full house magnum loads.

[waco]

^^^^^^I tend to agree^^^^^^

[Wayne Smith]

Given recent history I would want to have a couple powders in line. Both Unique and 2400 were unobtainium for quite a while. Now they are back on the shelves, but to have another option might be nice.

[ironhead7544]

My standard WW296/H110 44 Magnum load with the Keith 250 gr 44 bullet goes over 1700 fps from a 20" carbine. This bullet feeds perfectly at 1.70 in my 1894 Marlin.

If you are happy with the velocity and accuracy of your Unique load, then I see no problem using it. I use a 200 gr RNFP with Unique at 1330 fps for practice. This about duplicates the original 44-40 load. The original 44-40 load has killed a lot of game, so your load should work, too.

[yeahbub]

In big cases, I like to use 2400 with a 240gr, partly because it's bulkier and fills the case better. Max loads are close to 100% load density. If I need to get more power yet, I use LilGun.

[randy_68]

I load for my S&W 629-2 6" and my Henry Big Boy brass. For my 629 after lots of tria l and error I've settled on 8.5 gr Unique with the RCBS 44-250 swc for general shooting and 9.5 gr for hunting. Book it alloy is acww with touch of tin. For my Henry the load is a NOE 432-265 wfngc over 21 gr H110 for 1700 fps and t he alloy is 50/50 ww/pure lead and 2% tin. My goal this year is to get my first handgun deer kill with my Smith.

[MyFlatline]

20.5 of 2400 is stout and accurate, avg. 1650 fps with a 250 cast PC GC

[Patthehandyman]

I have used H110 for years, til I found out that H110 doesn't like temps below freezing. Just switched to Lil gun, and my cold weather test yielded good results. 240 jacketed from 18" breech loader @ 1800fps 1.5moa.

[NorthMoccasin]

The Lyman cast bullet handbook lists 13.0 to 12.2 grs of unique as max for the 429421 245 gr and the 429244 255 gr respectively. I would NOT exceed these levels. 10.5 gr should be a more prudent every day load. Use 2400 for heavier loads. H-110 and 296 are not good choices for less than full throttle loads. The acceptable load range is rather narrow for these 2 powders.

[PHyrbird]

I'm more of a 45 kinda guy. The 45 WM, 454 Casull really like Bluedot. In a Ruger single six the Bluedot got my first deer at 41 paces. (45WM) The longer barrel of a rifle & bullet weights over 250g calls for slower burning rates. A Super 14 barrel will make cloverleafs at 50yds if you can hold it still. I would lean more to RL7, 4227, or some of the newer magnum powders. I too avoid 296 & H110 because even the factory avoids charges less than 90% of max. Hot spherical powders can over pressure. For my purposes it's not worth taking that chance. Also the slower powders that are great in rifles will make a large "watermelon" if you put them in a short barrel. Makes everybody leave at range when you arrive.
I just wish the Mfgs would come out with a nice rifle repeater for my 460S&W babies. I like 45-70 but 460 is in a class by itself.

[Norske]

Both my SBH revolvers and my Marlin 1894 prefer 2400 powder above all others. 20 gr 2400 and a jacketed bullet in the Marlin is very accurate, but the revolvers prefer cast bullets. It's a difference in groove diameter and twist rate.
When I'm in a black bear ground blind, the SBH on top of my day pack is loaded with the Lee 300+ gr cast bullet and a nearly max charge of 2400. I like the look of that wide nose and slightly concave (not really flat) nose.
For pleasant practice, it's a cast 245 gr bullet and 7 gr of Unique.

[Three44s]

Unique vs. 2400/H110?

How about Unique vs. HS6 vs. 2400/H110?

Three44s

[onelight]

I pick the powder that gives the lowest pressure in the velocity range I want while still giving acceptable accuracy.
Maximum loads (based on pressure not velocity ) go in new or once fired cases , and consideration has to be given to the particular demands of the gun they will be fired in , all guns are not created equal.

[Norske]

I corrected my "pleasant load." That 12.5 gr Unique was a brain f--t!

[JoeJames]

I have always thought of Unique as in the moderate to fairly heavy load category, and when you get up a bit hotter, then 2400 would be my choice. If I remember right Elmer Keith was using 2400 in his maximum 44 Special loads. But I have not tried very hot loads. For my 5 pound Rossi, I use 7 grains of Unique with 240 grain swc's for a very moderate, pleasant, and accurate 44 Magnum load = 1150 fps in my Rossi.

[Norske]

Elmer also complained that Unique melted and deformed the bases of his non-GC cast bullets. My recovered cast bullets have shown that to be true.

[djryan13]

Thread is from 2017...... guessing OP got his answer.

[JoeJames]

Thread is from 2017...... guessing OP got his answer.

Lord, I hope he has by this time!

[bluejay75]

My standard WW296/H110 44 Magnum load with the Keith 250 gr 44 bullet goes over 1700 fps from a 20" carbine. This bullet feeds perfectly at 1.70 in my 1894 Marlin.

If you are happy with the velocity and accuracy of your Unique load, then I see no problem using it. I use a 200 gr RNFP with Unique at 1330 fps for practice. This about duplicates the original 44-40 load. The original 44-40 load has killed a lot of game, so your load should work, too.

PM your 296 250 grain load please. JB.

[Tripplebeards]

Here some of my load data and results with a couple of sub MOA results...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?365538-More-testing-with-my-ruger-77-44-and-the-Lyman-devastator

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?362842-More-testing-with-the-Lyman-devistator-and-my-ruger-77-44


I see the post is from 2017 or I wouldn’t of added to it.

[yeahbub]

For hunting with a SBH, I used gas checked Lyman 429215 cast of air cooled WW's driven at 1100-1200 fps. I never recovered a boolit with complete penetration so far. A 200gr+ boolit gets the job done within 60 yards or so. Easier to shoot comfortably, as well. For the carbine, intending to stretch the ranges at which I could comfortably tackle deer, I switched to 2400 and settled on 21gr. I played with the heavies for a time, but found they were unnecessary. For bigger game, I have a limited run Lee 265gr RNFP TL which paper patches beautifully. Maybe someday, if I'm a good boy (someday), I'll go for elk, bear or hogzilla with that one over Lilgun or 300MP.