Quick Test of Lub and Lub Grooves

[MGySgt]

I have been working up a load with a new mold from MM. 450Gr GC for my 1895 GG.

There was another post by RVPilot asking about lub groove and size, number or, etc.

I was having a problem after a few shots where the group opened up from 1 - 1/4 to 3 plus. We were discussing over lubing (too much lub).

I loaded 10 rounds each of both lub grooves and one lub groove. Here is the results:

Note one on the left is both grooves filled. I also have to clean the lead out now as only one lub groove - lub failed!

[Bass Ackward]

Drew,

Startin to spearamint I see.

Those are damn respectable 200 yard groups if you ask me.

[RayinNH]

Geez, I recognize the needle when I read it :lol: ...Ray

[felix]

Dead beer cans at 200! No flies on that round/gun/shooter. ... felix

[45 2.1]

What size does the bullet cast to?

[MGySgt]

Bass I wish they were 200 yard, but alas they are only 100! But they are still within MOE (minute of Elk).

And I am still working the load - going to try some heavier today, why I don't know these kick the dog s@## out me now.

Velocity is about 1550 right now. Should get close to 1650 by the time is all said and done. But if I can't go any higher - so what, I don't think anything in the good old US of A could stand up them them now out to 200! Including beer cans!

Ray - Needle noted - But Bass is allowed as he is getting up in years. We have to be nice to our elders!

Felix - easy to shoot those off a solid bench and with the bench rest I have set up, scope helps too.

45 2.1 - They drop from the mold at .462 in WW. I am using a softer alow (about 10 BRN) and they come out 461+)

Cleaned the lead out last night, it wasn't as leaded as bad as I initially thought, so back to shooting today! No more one lub groove only for this bullet in my 45/70's! Maybe with the Sharps with the lower velocity!

Drew

[Bass Ackward]

Drew,

You might be able to get away with just one lube groove, but that would mean the front groove would need to be filled. The farther up the bullet that you can get lube, the less of it you actually need. That is or was part of the argument that I wanted Kevin to see against a single lube groove which is normally centrally located.

But again these tests are difficult to draw conclusions from because they depend on so many variables. Things like quality of the lube. Amount of it or the size and location of your lube grooves. The length of barrel you are shooting it in. Powder choice. Temperature is my killer.

If you drop temperature, you might just see that one lube groove start to work like a champ. Or .... you might just drop to NRA 50/50 lube and fill all grooves and work like a champ at these temperatures. This is why one guy swears about lube A and someone wants to be burried with a tube of lube Z.

Trying to find a lube that isn't quantity sensitive, works across a broad pressure spectrum without change, and is consistent in performance at all temperature ranges is down right impossible. Especially in large bore, straight case, cartridges. Bottlenecks have less issue with this, but it is still there.

[45 2.1]

Drew-
Try a larger size like unsized at 0.461" in the softer alloy and try Lyman Blackpowder Gold with all grooves lubed.

[MGySgt]

Drew-
Try a larger size like unsized at 0.461" in the softer alloy and try Lyman Blackpowder Gold with all grooves lubed.

45 2.1 - can't go any larger they won't chamber! I normally size to .460 and there was too much restance in chambering with the lever. Went to .459 (didn't have anything smaller) and they still slightly jam in the lead/throat near the rifling but they don't reach the rifling. The Marlin must have a slightly cone shape throat/lead, didn't notice that when I did the chamber cast and the lead has been re-melted. Guess I will have to do that one again and take GOOD notes on the chamber, both at the case mouth and just as the rifling starts.

Bass - I just did the little bit of exmeriment to see if the lub was causing my groups to open up after 2 or 3 rounds - wasn't it - I increased the powder charge .5 grains and that problem went away!

I am going to do some more tests after it gets cold this winter. Put the rounds and my rifle in my shooting shed over night when it is down right cold and shoot a group in the morning, leave the target up and after the sun has warmed everything up (at least above freezing) and shoot another group in the same target. May do 3 or 4 sets that way - 2 or 3 rounds 4 times during the course of a day.

When I run out of this Lyman Super Moly I might try some other lubs. Right now I am on the look out for another sizer or 2. Would have to be RCBS or Lyman as I already have one of each set up. If I find another one I will start playing with different lubs and maybe even try a few of the home brewed lubs.

Load development is just about complete for this bullet and the guide gun and initial tests with the Ruger #1 - I might even be able to have just one load for both guns - Gotta have some thing this winter to give me fits and frustrate me might as well test some different lubs in cold weather!

Drew

[45 2.1]

First 4570 i've heard of that wouldn't take a 0.461" bullet. Try seating a larger one deeper and crimp lightly over the front band on the nose.

[MGySgt]

First 4570 i've heard of that wouldn't take a 0.461" bullet. Try seating a larger one deeper and crimp lightly over the front band on the nose.

I trimed some WW casees to 2.06 and they shot ok, about the same as the .459 do with out triming them and makeing them only for the GG.

Since I had the problem with it starting to throw a few rounds out of the group, I increased the powder charge by .5 grains and the problem has completley gone away.

I still get a few in a 10 shot string that are about 3/4's inch from the others. Normally within the first 2 or 3 rounds after running the bore snake down the barrel a few times. I will start a test next weekend to see what happens when I shoot it and come back a few hours later (completley cold barrel) and see where the first few rounds go. Then let it go for about a week and see what happens.

I think the load development is done. 44.5 grains of 3031, cases at 2.085, OAL 2.522, about 1550 FPS according to Quick load, havent shot them over the sky screens yet to see what Mr. Oler says. My shoulder is a little sore after 40 rounds of that one - so it can wait until next weekend. Besides I have to prep brass again for it.

Then I get to do it all over again for my Ruger #1 - What JOY!!!!

Drew