Cast Diameter for 44 magnum SBH and Marlin 1894

[Bazoo]

This is a two fold question Im sure this has been hashed out somewhere else but I aint found it.

So, I have a sbh in 44 magnum as many will recall from several previous threads, Throats are .433 and bore is .430. According to what i've read, and what others have told me, .431 is a good diameter for me to size my boolits. Is there any reason that I should or shouldnt try .430 sized boolits?

Im looking for zero leading and 6" or less groups at 50 yards with this gun, But I dont wanna fool with something that most likely aint gonna work.

Now... the second part of the question. I think I am wanting to get a 44 magnum lever action later on when I have the money. As far as pistol caliber lever guns go, I like marlin 1894s. How consistent are the marlin rifles groove diameters and what about their chambers? What should I expect, or look for?

When It comes time that I get the marlin, I will want ammo that will work best in the rifle, and acceptable in the handgun. Can I expect to have both guns, and have only 1 diameter bullet that will work in both?

Thanks for the help,

~Bazoo

[Outpost75]

Size .432 for both Marlin and Ruger. ALWAYS to THROAT size.

IGNORE groove diameter of the barrel!

[curator]

Size to .432f id you can. This might also work for your anticipated .44 mag rifle. Most .44 mag pistols have a groove diameter of .429-430 (Chamber throats may be larger as you have see) Rifle grooves usually run .432 to .433 (SAAMI specs) Keep in mind that the "older" .44 Mag rifles have a twist rate of 1 in 36" or worse, not exactly what you may want for your .44 Mar rifle with cast boolits. Look for something with a rifling twist rate of 1 in 18 to 1 in 22 for best results.

[fecmech]

I had the same situation with my SBH(.433-.434 throats). It always shot well with max loads of 296 and 429421 (2.5-3"@ 50 yds) but always with light leading with .430 bullets. I believe the bullets bumped up from pressure. When I tried shooting specials @800 fps I got a real lesson in throat size. Barrel leaded like crazy, accuracy was non existent. "Beagled" the mold to .434 and sized to .433 and voila, leading disappeared and accuracy with both mags and specials in the 2" range@ 50 yds. I would not worry about the size in the rifle as long as you can chamber the round. I shoot .359 sized bullets in my two Rossi rifles with .3565 grooves into 3 moa@ 100 yds.

[quilbilly]

I have a Marlin 444 which ought to be the same size bullet (I emphasize ought). Strangely enough, it likes my plain base and gas checked CB's at .429 and I am getting no leading of the 260 gr. plain base SWC's at 1350 fps.

[mdi]

Throats .433"? Size bullets to .433". Whenever you fire a bullet that is smaller than the throat or barrel, you will get "blow by" of hot gasses and leading. With an undersized bullet you would get leading at/in the throat and prolly on the forcing cone and beginning of the barrel. You might get by with bullets on the soft side obturating (bumping up) to fill/seal the the throat but it's best to start with the proper size...

[W.R.Buchanan]

I ended up with two different boolits for my SBH and my Marlin. My SBH barrel is .429 with .430 throats. my Marlin barrel is .431

I shoot the 429421 with 8 gr of W231 almost exclusively in the SBH sized .431.

My Magnum Loads use 429244 which is a gas checked boolit. This eliminates any possibility of leading in either the Rifle or the Revolver, however they mostly get fired in the rifle and this is my standard full power load for the .44 Magnum.

With the throats of the revolver being .430, sizing a .432 boolit down .001 on a side isn't going to amount to any change in how it shoots. Then it goes into the barrel just like it would if it had been .431 in the first place and only been sized .0005 by the throats.

We are definitely splitting hairs here.

SAAMI Spec for Pistol barrel groove dia. is .429 +/- .002 ,,, Rifles are .431 +/-.002.

Randy

[fredj338]

You rarely go wrong going bigger. I size to 0.432" for all my 44mags. As long as the cyl throats are not too tight & the round chambers, you should be good going 0.432".

[Bazoo]

Thanks everyone for this advice. A 444 marlin is not out of the question, but not as likely as the 44 magnum. And neither of them for a while.

[Bazoo]

You cannot get an H&I die in 432, that I can find. I'll have to get a 431 I suppose.

[ubetcha]

I could not fine a .432 sizing die either , so I contacted Buckshot and ordered one from him. This was a couple of years ago. Is he still with us? I haven't noticed any recent posts from him.

[ubetcha]

I could not fine a .432 sizing die either , so I contacted Buckshot and ordered one from him. This was a couple of years ago. Is he still with us? I haven't noticed any recent posts from him.

I apologize to Buckshot. I see he just visited here yesterday.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Definitely Buckshot. He makes nice Lyman style dies in the odd sizes we want.

Randy

[Wayne Smith]

Buckshot is retired (again) and has respectfully asked not to be bothered! There are several machinists here who will do it. Check the Vendors section.

[mehavey]

see
https://www.buffaloarms.com/432-custom-bullet-sizing-die-for-lyman-rcbs-lubrisizers-bac432

[Bazoo]

I bought a .433 die off a member here.

I made a dummy cartridge with a .433 sized bullet, and it just barely chambered. It dropped in, but with no room to spare. That aint the problem though.

It doesnt look right. It is bulged pretty dang bad, so bad that it looks like a mistake. I didnt have a good feeling about it so I didnt make any to try.

I have an RCBS carbide set of dies. If I had dies that sized on the larger size it would probably be okay.

Thoughts appreciated.

[17nut]

User "Lathesmith" will do odd sizing dies.

[fecmech]

Thoughts appreciated.
I would not worry about it. What you have is a size die that is working the case too much. Even if you had .430 bullets your case will still expand to chamber size. All that .433 bullet is doing (along with being correct for your chambers) is giving you an actual visual off how much you are working your brass. I have a Lyman carbide sizer that does that in .357 mag with .359 bullets, doesn't hurt anything as long as you can chamber.

[W.R.Buchanan]

A lot of people talk about the possibility of overworking their brass? Strait walled cases don't get worked very much in any event. Some cases like 38-40 or 44-40 will die quicker than say a .357 or .44 Mag case. This is because the brass is thinner and more susceptible to deformation, not because it is being over worked. Opening a case neck an extra thou or two isn't going to show up as over working.

If you're worried about overworking 9mm cases? You really need a reality check. There are thousands laying around at every range in existence.

You can also anneal them to take the work hardness back out, and that will increase the life of your cases if you really feel you must. Are your cases really that valuable?

The end result or really the question is how many times do you want to reload a given cartridge. I have 100ea .308's that have been loaded 9 times as I speak. I have never annealed them and don't intend to. But I also have 1000 more waiting to be put in service and they probably never will be. But if any of the originals give up it really isn't a big deal.

I have .44 Mag and Special cases I bought new in 1978 and I have no idea how many times they've been reloaded. They always get heavy roll crimps everytime they are loaded, and are not showing any signs of failure at the neck. I also have back ups for them that I bought in 1978 that are still in their boxes. But I have never lost even one to work hardening.

All my .45 ACP brass came from ranges and I picked up so much I had to buy a .45 Auto Pistol to shoot them. I have thousands of them and if any get reloaded more than once or twice it is shear luck that I found them, even so .45 ACP cases typically can be reloaded indefinitely because there isn't much stress placed on them during firing or reloading. Point being the expander opening the case back up and then flaring it after the sizer squeezes it down really doesn't hurt the brass any significant amount and if it did,,,

There's plenty more where they came from.

I average about 50 new ones per trip to my range. I now only pick up .45's and .223's and any oddballs like Weatherby's etc.

Now if you are loading cases that are $5 ea.,,, then I can see worrying about it.

Randy

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the replies. I maybe am over thinking it some. I would like to have die that sizes less.

[jeff100]

NOE molds sells .432 dia molds.

[CIC]

I stopped resizing my straight walled brass and I use it as a guid to tell me what size bullet I need. What I do is just slightly bell the mouth of the case to remove any residual crimp. Then find a bullet diameter that snugly fits in the case. That will be the bullet diameter you need.the bonus is you will not have any bulge in the brass and the tight fit you get when shoving a big bullet in the tight brass will not resize your bullet. Hope this helps.

[mehavey]

http://i59.tinypic.com/21dlz45.jpg

'Nuff said. :drinks:

[Duckiller]

Lyman's kieth SWC at 250+/- gr works greatin my SBH however it is 1.7+inches long Too long for my Marlin. Your biggest problem is finding a mold that gives a std COL that will work through your Marlin.