BP more accurate than smokeless?

[nekshot]

on the average, does BP produce better accuracy than smokeless powders in these large caliber cartridges? I am really struggling to get smokeless to give better groubs than black. I have no problem with the black as that is my preference but wondering mind makes me wander around to the other side of the hill, if you know what I mean. I get bored really fast but I do like stable consistancy in my loads. This 50-90 mauser is definitely not a bean field rifle but it is average for what it is. When I exhaust all the possibilities then I will be satisfied and record it in book and forget it real fast and move on to next project! It really has been a blast and a learning experience.

[sharps4590]

As much as I prefer BP in the old cartridges I believe I'm going to say no. 300 yards and in I think a good smokeless load will shade a good BP load but not by much. As the range increases I also think the tables get turned, that BP is the more accurate. I think the problem is finding an accurate smokeless load in the really big cases. I base that on fairly limited experience with white powder loads in the big cases. Those with greater experience with white powder in the big cases are opinions that need be given greater credence.

[nekshot]

after the dust settled unique is the powder to use(for this gun) if not black. Suits me as unique is a good powder for me in a lot of applications.

[sharps4590]

Same here nek, I use a pile of Unique but mostly for reduced cast loads in more modern cases. I don't recall I ever used it in any of the big ol' BP cases.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Here's 3 shots at 550 yards in less than 6 inches with black powder yesterday, I'll say black powder is more accurate. Brooks 550 gr. cast 20/1 lubed with SPG over 65 gr. Swiss 1 1/2 Shiloh Sharps 30" 198838

[nekshot]

thats good shooting in my book. I really don't want to know how this gun would do at 500! I can get 3 inch groubs for 100 yards but it is better than a smooth bore!

[country gent]

I find as the cases get bigger ( I'm currently working with 38-55, 40-65, 45-70 (2) and 45-90) black shows better than smokless. If this is due to airspace, or some other reason I'm not sure. My Extreme spreads and Standard deviations are lower with BP also. While this shows consistency in the load and its ignition it dosnt always show up on targets at closer ranges. Finding the right combination of powder make, granulation, compression and neck tension all contribute to this. Like a lot of things it takes some testing and experimenting nothing is normally cut and dry. One other thing Ive found with BP is when everything is where it needs to be velocity seems to drop right in the correct range for these cartridges.

[M-Tecs]

As soon as semi-smokeless and smokeless powders came on the scene target shooters started moving away from black. Duplex loads or smokeless ruled the day. In cast bullet benchrest how much black is being used? Each has their advantages and disadvantages.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

BPRC NRA rules prohibit the use of duplex loads.

Black powder cases are larger because black is a volume powder. Along with smokeless came smaller cases, newer barrel steel, higher velocity and jacketed bullets, and flatter trajectories. Black is more accurate at a given distance however black isn't suitable where we are not sure if the target is 150 or 200 yards away. Smokeless rules in this environment.

[M-Tecs]

I use both in competition out to a 1,000 yards. I have shot some very nice groups with black but holding 1 1/2 MOA consistently day in and day out with black is a real challenge. With smokeless not a problem at all. That holds true for me with the 45/110 and smaller. Never played with anything larger.

[rfd]

AA5744 is a good smokeless that's meant for large capacity brass. i had really good results with it and greasers. SR4759, too - but i think that's out of production. smokeless is just easier and faster in every manner from loading to cleanup. looking at the winners of quigley 2016, most were using smokeless - be curious to see the gear rundown for this year. in spite of all that, some of us are just too set in our black powder ways to not shoot any of the white stuff ... and some are even more stubborn by going the paper patch way. going black and ppb just ain't easy. but sometimes easy is just no challenge, or no fun.

[Gunlaker]

In my BPCR rifles I've only very rarely shot smokeless, which might be why I find back powder much more accurate. I just haven't spent any significant time with smokeless.

I have experimented with smokeless in my schuetzen rifles in .32-40 and can say that when shooting them from a benchrest, smokeless is very obviously superior. I still prefer shooting BP in these rifles though. I'm not certain why :-)

Chris.

[Bent Ramrod]

I am embarrassed to say that in my .40-3-1/4" Hepburn, smokeless loadings have been more consistently accurate, range session to range session, than black powder loadings, which will give a promising group one time and be "there or thereabouts" the next time out, with a big batch of the same "good" loads as the last time.

But, like the 40-year-old hippie, with 200 acid trips under his belt--all of them bummers:

"I ain't giving up!" :mrgreen:

[25ring]

While I can get equal accuracy between BP and Smokeless,I've not been able to get the low SD's with smokeless as I can with black.Doesn't mean it can't be done though.The Quest continues.

[M-Tecs]

Until you get past 600 yards low SD's have very little effect on group size and in some cases loads with poor SD's group are the best.

[kokomokid]

The very fact we have this post says something for black powder.
Last week my shooting partner was testing a black powder load on his 40 inch gong at 1000 yds. I had my scope set well to the side of all the stinky smoke as he fired his fifth shot onto the target I counted the seconds and said 4 inches left of center . His smile said more than words.

[.22-10-45]

While not the first caliber to come to mind when talking BPCR...I have found Swiss 3FG more accurate than smokeless in my original Ballard No.2 .25-25 Stevens. The rifle has a cast action..either iron or steel so I am only using real black. I did try a few smokeless powders, but could never achieve the accuracy black powder gave. If I blow tube between shots, groups of 1" at 50yds. If I run 1 barely damp patch thru after each shot, it will group them in 3/8". I did try du-plexing & found PB to be best for this..bore looked like a straight smokeless load had been fired, However, I still needed 1 patch thru for match accuracy..though this time I could use a dry patch. Figured it wasn't worth the hassle of using two powders & went back to straight black.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

199349199350199351
Yesterday at 550 yards with black power. Two (2) targets with 3 shot groups and one (1) target with 6 shots.

[EDG]

Are these the best groups? What do the worst groups look like?


199349199350199351
Yesterday at 550 yards with black power. Two (2) targets with 3 shot groups and one (1) target with 6 shots.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Are these the best groups? What do the worst groups look like?
That's for you to decide.
These are all of them from last Friday.
I don't know what you mean.
I placed first in the BPRC match yesterday.

[Chill Wills]

Yesterday at 550 yards with black power. Two (2) targets with 3 shot groups and one (1) target with 6 shots.

Looks looks that load holds elevation at 500 meters.
That is what I look for at that range. The horizontal spread I don't worry over so much when testing a load, if any wind is blowing, that is not the load.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Would you believe my thumb was rotating the windage knob during recoil? There was no wind to speak of that day though, light overcast.