40-60 out of 45-70?

[randyrat]

I'm inquiring for a friend, that has a 40-60 Win and would like some ammo. He has a few empties for reference. Can it be done? Can dies be found for this? Any info would be appreciated.

I noticed Lee makes limited production of these

[country gent]

If you can give case drawings or good pics of both it will be easier to help. If like the 40-65 the 40-60 is a spin off of the 45-70 and a resizing to the new taper and trimming are all that should be needed. If this is the case 40-65 cases would possibly only need a minor sizing and trimming also. I have found that sizing 45-70 to 40-65 takes a pretty solid strong press to do it one pass with out backing out lightly relubing cases and turning cases. You also end up with thicker necks and in your case the shorter case length will have a little more due to case wall tapers. I doubt it will be enough to cause problems but watch loaded round diameters on the new brass. A light reaming or turning may be required. Actually a light turn or ream may be desirable if neck walls thickness isn't concentric also. Some dimensioned case drawings will help

[John Boy]

The Parent Case for conversion to 40-60 is the 45X3 1/4" Sharps

[Cheshire Dave]

Ouch That' going to be spendy.

[country gent]

Why 45 3 1/4 case the 40-60 should be under the 2.1 length of the 45-70 and 40-65 with the same rim and solid head section. Dosnt sound quite right there

[Mk42gunner]

My eighth ed. of Cartridges of the World says it can be easily formed from .45-70. Case length of 1.87".

CH-4D has the dies.

Robert

[country gent]

Then 40-65 should be doable also. And maybe even a little easier as theres less sizing and the same trimming required. Be just over .280 to trim down a form and trim die could be made to remove the most of it with a fine jewelers saw. Then a light trimming. 45-70 and40-65 are both 2.1 long cases but the 40-65 will require much less sizing. The re tapering of the 40-65 wont have as much lengthening or thickening also.

[bob208]

I use the common easy to get .45-70. have used them for years in my 76 win, size 41 mag bullets down to fit the bore. midway has a three die set for $43.

[EDG]

You should exercise some care picking the right 45-70 brass to form the cases.

The 40-60 Win (and the 40-65 longer Win) can be formed from 45-70 brass if you pick brass that has smaller head diameters. Original rifles sometimes have chambers that are too tight for .45-70 brass right at the rim.

My Win .45-70 brass is about .500 to .502 diameter on the head in front of the rim. My RP .45-70 brass is about .498 to .500 diameter on the head in front of the rim.

Your buddy needs to check the back end diameter of his chamber. If it is .500 or so he will need to start forming with smaller brass.

If his chamber is smaller than .500 he may need to form the cases and then turn the head diameter down slightly to get it to chamber.

I have a set of RCBS form dies designed to form 40-60 Win from 45-70. For a while the cheapest reloading dies around for the 40-60 were made by Lyman or Lee. The forming dies are very rare unless you place a special order with RCBS or CH. I could provide you with a few samples from my RCBS 40-60 trim die or he could send me his brass and I could form it.(at no cost) I have a few 40-65 cases that are newly formed from 45-70. They have case mouth defects that I could form and trim to 40-60 leaving the cases as new and unfired.

This would provide him with brass to check his chamber diameter. He will still need reloading dies. Most likely his original barrel is going to be around .406 groove diameter so he will need bullets about that size or a few thousandths larger. Since his rifle is probably an 1876 he will need light weight (240 to 260 grain) bullets and they must be FLAT nosed for the tube magazine.

If you use lots of patience you can probably form cases using a 40-60 FL sizing die.

I posted about forming 40-65 Win brass in another thread. Most of the information posted about 40-65 Win will apply to the 40-60 forming process too. The main difference is the .40-60 is a bit shorter but the forming process is about the same.

The following was posted in one of the 40-65 threads here at cast boolits. There are several threads and most of what applies to the 40-65 also applies to the 40-60 except for case length and maybe bullet diameter.

Use new brass without the cannelure
Use perfect brass with no dent or nicks on the upper half of the case.
Expand any case mouths that are dented or out of round so they are round and will not notch when sized. (A dented case will form a notch in the case mouth).

Use a very small amount of lube on the bras and do not size deeper than 1/2" at a pass.
You may be able to size more than this but start out shallow. Wipe the accumulated lube off between
passes so you do not crease or lube a case.

There are many ways to size this brass. I have started with a 45-70 die and I have also started with a
.375 H&H die. The main thing is to not size to far without wiping the case off.

To properly fit the chamber cut a few junk cases to length if you have them. Then size only enough to push the body taper back so it permits chambering.

[randyrat]

It is a 1876 Win and I have not touched it, I'm not taking this project on but will encourage him to take it on if he intends to shoot this rifle. Wouldn't that be cool to have a 1876 Winny with a die set and couple hundred bullets ready to load sitting right there next to the rifle.
If mine, i would put it in a nice Oak box (plexi glass front) with a small write up on the history and load recipes (Black and smokeless)
It would make hours of conversations while sipping on a coffee or a beer.

Thank you all for the info!

[Chill Wills]

EDG's post is full of good information about 40-60 Win., and the principles apply to converting many other brass calibers as well.

I have made brass for a lot of obsolete rifles and that post sums up my experience. As an example, the Remington brass is smaller just ahead of the rim, and for rifles with small chambers, 45-70 and others, may only except Remington brass. Sounds strange but I have two such rifles.

[EDG]

The 40-60 form die and the 40-60 trim die are both a little smaller at the base than WW 45-70 brass. Maybe .001 to .002 is all.

The rim diameter for the 45-70 is smaller than the 40-60 Win. I think all the rounds for the 1876 Win have some what larger rims than the rounds for the 1886 Win. Since I do not have an 1876 Win you will need to verify your rifle will work with formed 45-70 brass.

[Mk42gunner]

One thing I will add is that when doing radical case forming; you need a solidly mounted press, preferably with compound linkage.

One time I bought a .40-65 forming die, from Redding I believe, and just had to try it out. Since I had one of the hand held Lyman presses sitting next to the desk it got the first try. I don't think the incredible Hulk could do it with that light press. When I finally gave up and switched to the bench mounted Rock Chucker, everything went smoothly and it was fairly easy to reform .45-70 into ..40-65.

Robert