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View Full Version : Welcome to the place to discuss your deep ideas



Preacher Jim
06-27-2017, 09:16 PM
Keep it civil and remember this is a test of new area for chapel.

Bzcraig
06-27-2017, 09:43 PM
Thank you Jim & Robert!

Preacher Jim
06-27-2017, 10:27 PM
BZ you ask now you help keep it up to standards

Bzcraig
06-28-2017, 12:12 AM
BZ you ask now you help keep it up to standards

But, but, but..........you bet!

Wayne Smith
06-28-2017, 07:20 AM
I assume you will be moving some of the existing threads here?

Preacher Jim
06-28-2017, 07:24 AM
Wayne I expect you all to bring your discussions here. You all asked for this so I trust you will switch to this place. I will move any asked to move here

Pine Baron
06-28-2017, 08:39 AM
Thanks Jim and Robert, for your sincere attempt to accommodate serious discussion. My prayer is that we can all learn from each other without contention. Go in Peace.

Wayne Smith
06-28-2017, 08:53 AM
My Choosing a Church may or may not be moved, it is practical rather than theological in intent but thread drift happened. My Creation vs Creationism ought to come over here.

Blackwater
06-28-2017, 06:19 PM
Jim, my sincere thanks to you and Robert for this space. I believe we can almost all of us keep it civil and scholarly. This is a very crucial part of our lives, so it's natural to care about our beliefs tenaciously. There's little more edifying than a good, round-table discussion of the things that we don't understand, or simply need further illumination on.

We've got WAY too much knowledge, good will and studious folks here to let them go to waste! Thanks, and we'll do our best to make you and Rob proud of us.

Preacher Jim
07-09-2017, 10:50 AM
Please read this before you decide to post something that will cause argument.
I will issue points for name calling, arguing, or just plain causing the deterioration of this place to non Biblical debates (denominational not biblical) .
Thank you

versa-06
07-16-2017, 02:20 PM
Brothers; I have noticed that most disagreements in ref. to the "Word of God" comes from an understanding which has been gathered from outside sources and not from the word itself. God has given us instructions in the "Word of God" directing us to HIS understanding. Would any of you like to tell us where God put these instructions, and how they must be received. I live in southwest Va. and have never found a preacher in this area who knows these instructions and our Father says it "must" be this way to receive knowledge & wisdom. Please take this as a trivia question and not as a stab at your intelligence, and or pride!. Jim

Thundarstick
07-16-2017, 03:15 PM
I wanted to put this in its own thread, but since it's your thoughts I didn't.

Ickisrulz
07-16-2017, 04:29 PM
Brothers; I have noticed that most disagreements in ref. to the "Word of God" comes from an understanding which has been gathered from outside sources and not from the word itself. God has given us instructions in the "Word of God" directing us to HIS understanding. Would any of you like to tell us where God put these instructions, and how they must be received. I live in southwest Va. and have never found a preacher in this area who knows these instructions and our Father says it "must" be this way to receive knowledge & wisdom. Please take this as a trivia question and not as a stab at your intelligence, and or pride!. Jim

How are we to understand the Bible?

First we must read it or hear it preached. Jesus said those who really wanted to know God would understand that his words were from God. This did not mean that his followers would be given complete understanding though. Often times even Jesus' disciples were totally clueless. In my judgement, this would broadly apply to the entire Bible.

One of the Holy Spirits' roles is to remind people of Jesus' words and provide insight. Of course in order to be reminded or given insight, we must already be familiar with what the Bible contains. Endeavors of God and man are often slow and can be subtle. Man must do his part before God will do his. Consider raising food in a garden. We must plant and care for the garden--then God will cause it to grow. In other words, God generally does not "miracle" biblical knowledge into people.

God gave officials to the Church in order to strengthen and build it up. Included in these are teachers. Teachers understand things that their students do not due to a lifetime of study and natural talent. At one time the teacher would probably only be found within the walls of a church. In today's world the teacher can pass his information on to us in a variety of media. The one we are most familiar with is the book. Teachers who have studied their entire lives write commentaries and other scholarly works that can help us understand the Bible.

In my understanding of Scripture, my observations and experiences I believe a more full knowledge of the Bible comes from reading it, instruction under competent teachers and the ministry of the Holy Spirit. If any of these components are missing the biblical student will be lacking.

claude
07-16-2017, 05:41 PM
Would any of you like to tell us where God put these instructions

Try these scriptures on for size;

from whence cometh wisdom and understanding?

Job 28: 20-28

Psalm 111:10

Psalm 119:33-35, 72-74, 97-104, 124-128, 130, 144, 169

psalm 147

Proverbs pretty much the entire book.

Isa 11: 1-5 40:10-15,

Jer 3:15

Luke 24:45

Eph 1:16-23, 5:17,

Col. chapter 2

2Ti 2:7

1John 5:20

If you would avail yourself of a Strong's concordance, you would be able to search these answers up for yourself, and do your own homework, This is a sampling of verses covering "understanding" and from whence it comes.

Enjoy

versa-06
07-17-2017, 04:50 AM
Thanks for the responses guys! Remember originally stated HIS understanding, and the words "must" be this way, please take another moment and put a little more work along with your faith. Pull out your KJV and read Isaiah 28;9-14 and tell us what you get. Your responses are carrying this discussion. Thanks! Jim.

Thundarstick
07-17-2017, 05:51 AM
I was reading that last night. How it's like building something a piece at a time. Precept on precept, a little here and there.
I know I've been reading and studying since I was old enough to read, and I'm still learning, growing, and finding new revelations. The only thing that makes that possible is striving to be humble (I fall short).

Ickisrulz
07-17-2017, 08:03 AM
Thanks for the responses guys! Remember originally stated HIS understanding, and the words "must" be this way, please take another moment and put a little more work along with your faith. Pull out your KJV and read Isaiah 28;9-14 and tell us what you get. Your responses are carrying this discussion. Thanks! Jim.

"Line upon line. etc." is meant to mimic babbling. God was only able to speak to this generation of Israel through drunken priests and prophets and conquering invaders from Assyria.

Isaiah 28:7-8 is a criticism of the incompetency of the priests and prophets who were attempting to instruct Israel during this time period. They were accused of being drunkards. Verses 9-10 responds to Isaiah's preceding comments arguing that even though the priests and prophets sounded like drunken babbling teachers (line upon line, etc.); God spoke to his people through their instruction. The passage goes on to tell of how God will speak to his people through a conquering force, the Assyrians (verses 11-13). This is necessary since they haven't learned from any other methods. The Assyrian's foreign language will sound like babbling to the Israelites, but the message will still be received.

I understand the sentiment that "line upon line, precept upon precept" might describe a Christian student's learning process. But, in context, this passage doesn't present the ideal, easiest or most efficient methods of learning from God.

Thundarstick
07-17-2017, 09:30 AM
True, it's not in context.

claude
07-17-2017, 10:22 AM
Verse specific games, disregarding the more rounded concept, re-iterated in a different manner in the second post, to what purpose? I would suggest when you seek a specific passage, chapter and verse, you do us the courtesy of stating that in the OP.

I hope you took the time to read the list of passages provided for the benefit of those interested, as they come straight from "the horses mouth" so to speek.

versa-06
07-17-2017, 12:56 PM
Sorry for the delay; Note verse 7 is an inclusive (they also) continuing indulgence in excess. Verse 8 concludes the status of the situation which ends the disclosure of the situation. Verse 9 starts new direction. 9) Whom shall he teach knowledge? (He God) and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? (Answer) them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. (Now I don't know about you but I want this to be ME!!) Heb. 5:13 for everyone that useth milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. Verse 10 precepts are commandments per Strong's #6673, and each commandment is a Topic.- #6957 line; a cord, Comp #6978;( in the sense of fastening) stalwart ,Strong binding. Note in vs 10 precept MUST be upon precept and continued---. That word "must" makes it clear that his word has to be received this way. Line upon line is the cord that ties ( fastens) the verses together. Now pick a topic, marriage, divorce, re-marriage, law, sabbath, alchohol, etc. We've all noticed how God gives bits and pieces on every subject all over his word, maybe several places in old and new test. But unless we diligently search his word and put all of his direction together and fasten it together we will never come to a full knowledge of the truth on any topic. Basically no one verse stands alone and explains everything. Verse 11 #3934 Stammering lips: a foreigner and another tongue (different language) will he speak to this people. Verse 12- To whom he said, this the rest (Rest #4496 peacefully fig. consolation, (spec. matrimony)(the bond of the church) hence, (concr.) an abode, quiet resting place.) wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the re-freshing (invigorating). yet they would not hear. Verse 13- Repeating the oration to signify serious signifigance as to how his word should be received, and the end of 13 clarifies that if it is not received in this manner they will be broken snared and taken by Satan. Verse 14- Note the word scornful (a scorner-a teacher that teaches according to his translation and not the rightly divided word of truth). And touching Verse 15- the falsehood comes from the teachings. 16- The stone, Jesus, The Word of God!! 17-end description of last days & end of times and judgment. Example II timothy 3:1-7 (vs1 last days, vs7 Ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Sound like a congregation you've sat in?? Jim

versa-06
07-18-2017, 05:38 PM
OK, Seems this hasn't started much of a discussion or raised any more comments, would you like me to continue, or would you rather I remained quiet? Jim

Ickisrulz
07-18-2017, 05:59 PM
OK, Seems this hasn't started much of a discussion or raised any more comments, would you like me to continue, or would you rather I remained quiet? Jim

You didn't engage in a discussion. You asked a question and then ignored the responses.

Just so you know, your last post on the issue was hard to read because there are no breaks. Many readers will skip posts that disregard paragraph breaks or omission of capitals. I also avoid overly long posts (not that yours was too long).

I read through your post and had a few thoughts, but didn't post them. Mainly because everything I have to say about the passage you selected from Isaiah I had already stated.

claude
07-18-2017, 06:40 PM
would you like me to continue

To what end?

versa-06
07-18-2017, 09:08 PM
I can end now if you prefer. Thanks Jim

versa-06
07-18-2017, 09:22 PM
Just one more thing before I close. What had already been stated was what appeared as a direct negative from my point of view. The disclosier I left was a 100% "Positive" direction from God, though "they" would not hear, But I Will!!! I Have been on castboolits.gunloads.com quite a while and don't say much because I sense a lot of sarcasm and a touch of self esteem with many responses. I know thin skinned right? No respect for others in a brotherly way, God Judges The Heart Remember!! Love Ya Like A Brother!!! Jim

Ickisrulz
07-18-2017, 09:44 PM
Just one more thing before I close. What had already been stated was what appeared as a direct negative from my point of view. The disclosier I left was a 100% "Positive" direction from God, though "they" would not hear, But I Will!!! I Have been on castboolits.gunloads.com quite a while and don't say much because I sense a lot of sarcasm and a touch of self esteem with many responses. I know thin skinned right? No respect for others in a brotherly way, God Judges The Heart Remember!! Love Ya Like A Brother!!! Jim

So your intention was to preach rather than have a discussion? And you feel those of us who might disagree with you refuse to hear from God?

I'm sorry you think this way.

Preacher Jim
07-24-2017, 09:32 AM
I have pondered this and other threads here and what I see is a lack of using the wisdom of the Holy Spirit to give you the word in relation to you. the Bible says, "no scripture is of private revelation". I see a great need to study 2 Timothy 2 before instructing others. I ask a serious question, are we straining at nats and swallowing camels with much of what I read.
if I were a lost person and reading what you fellows debate trying to decide if I need Jesus or want to attend church would I be drawn to Christ by your debates or decide there is more fighting in the churches than the street and turn my back on Salvation and resist the draw of the Spirit.
enlightening discussion helps them, debates run them away.

Ickisrulz
07-24-2017, 06:31 PM
I have pondered this and other threads here and what I see is a lack of using the wisdom of the Holy Spirit to give you the word in relation to you. the Bible says, "no scripture is of private revelation". I see a great need to study 2 Timothy 2 before instructing others. I ask a serious question, are we straining at nats and swallowing camels with much of what I read.
if I were a lost person and reading what you fellows debate trying to decide if I need Jesus or want to attend church would I be drawn to Christ by your debates or decide there is more fighting in the churches than the street and turn my back on Salvation and resist the draw of the Spirit.
enlightening discussion helps them, debates run them away.

Differences of understanding and opinion are one thing. It is easy to respect someone who says, "This is what I believe and why." But when members post that others who don't agree with them and their revelations are refusing to listen to the voice of God...that is a little too much.

Thundarstick
07-24-2017, 07:52 PM
As I said in another place, everybody's got an ax to grind, but I've gained insight from some different angles. This form is to discuss differences and keep it out of the chapel. I know of no one personally who believes even the church they attend has all the doctrine rite, much less differences in a forum. Yes, it's been taken a little far at times, but if or reads I think they will see most have about the same ideas about salvation.

Blackwater
08-01-2017, 11:59 PM
Amen, Tstick! I've had many of my own church members confide that they believed something quite different than what was heard from the pulpit, but they always sat mute, and just kept believing what they felt was true, and didn't make a scene or argue with the preacher. And I suspect that there are few churches whose members believe or even adhere strictly to ALL facets of their own church's doctrinal system. We humans are just too diverse a group, with differing experiences that tend to color all our understandings, or what we call our "understanding." I believe, basically, that we ALL "see through the glass darkly," but that some of us see a bit more clearly than some of the others. I just try to learn from anyone who'll discuss these matters with me, irrespective of their own sect or beliefs. If nothing more, at least I get a greater understanding of other believers' views, and that can NEVER be a bad thing, can it?

Understanding is something we all claim more of than we probably have a full, complete right to. After all, Christianity is about BELIEF, and not "certainty." None of us will really be certain until we've crossed the veil over into that next realm, where most all of our questions will be answered definitively and with authority, and all our misconceptions will be righted. And I also suspect that none of us will have it ALL down pat, and escape having some of our beliefs corrected, and some of them affirmed.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou SHALT be saved" is about as definitive a statement as one could possibly ask or hope for. Within this, the denominational thing and differing imaginings of priorities and doctrinal divergences are really "small potatoes." And really, if everyone, or even a simple majority of folks in any land or realm, simply believed in Christ, they OUGHT to be able to get along, and discuss their divergences without fisticuffs being a threat! Fisticuffs and demeaning others is NOT the way Christians are supposed to deal with each other, no matter what the nature of the disagreement! I'd think that should be abundantly clear to all of us. It's easy to forget in a moment's passion, though. And there's very little humility seen here sometimes, of the sort needed to come back and say "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that, or at least said it the way I did. Please forgive me. I try to be a better Christian than that." If we err, it's up to each of us as individuals to own up to our errors, and at least try to make recompense for them. No groveling. Just straight up acknowledgement and a simple apology. It really works wonders when it's applied! Honest! It really does. And it surely shows the depth of one's belief and faith, for SURE! If we can't do that, then we'll remain more of a hate-filled group than what Christ intended for us to be. And if there's anyone here who's never erred, or never said anything in haste or anger that they've later regretted and thought better of, it's CERTAINLY not ME!!!! So being chief among sinners, I recommend to all that we simply apologize when we go beyond what Christ clearly intended for us to do and be in discussing important and interesting theological matters.

Nobody's likely to be changed, but all will almost certainly be edified by a good, round and free discussion of some of the most important aspects of our faith. And too, if we can't even get along among ourselves, what kind of example are we setting for the non-believers? Are we not giving them yet MORE reason to stay away from belief when we act like we sometimes do here?

C'mon, folks! Are we REALLY Christians, or ..... just pretenders???? Christianity is the most challenging thing a person can do. Always has been. Probably always will be. But it's always worth it ..... isn't it?

Good Cheer
05-28-2022, 09:19 PM
Those were good words. My oh my how the world has changed since then.

Good Cheer
06-28-2022, 07:55 AM
This forum could use some deep theological discussions.
:)