7.5 Johnson/22 Spitfire

[abunaitoo]

Anyone load for this????
Friend has one.
I'm making shells and some reloads for him.
I've read that some of them have bad head space.
Need to size the shells head space to the chamber.
Also read that the bore are not all the same diameter.
Some .223 and some .224.
Need to slugg the bore.
All I have on hand are 45gr 223.5 Sierra.

looking for some load data.

[dale2242]

You must mean 5.7 Johnson/Spitfire.
There are 2 loads on the Ammoguide site...dale

[lightman]

A friend that I bought a few molds and some lead from gave me a tub full of old ammo for my collection. There were several of these in there. These were made from various years of military carbine cases.

[Larry Gibson]

I loaded for one back in the early '70s, a friends. Wasn't difficult but I did adjust the FL die for headspacing to the chamber. Loads with 55 gr bullets shot ok....2 moa....but because of violent ejection the velocity wasn't much better than 22 Hornet. He D&T'd the gas port (not into the bore) and put a plug between the cylinder and bore. We then worked up a load with H4227 or H4198 getting 1.5 - 2 moa with the 50 gr Hornady SX at 3000 fps. Pressure seemed ok. He then drilled the smallest hole with the smallest # drill through the plug and test for function. Had to enlarge with just 2 or 3 next size larger drills untill function was 100%. He was very happy with it and was still using it last Iknew.

If i recall correctly we used 221 Rem Fireball start loads minus 10% as start loads for the Spitfire. Were I loading for the Spitfire (14" or faster twist) today I would use Lil'gun powder under a 50 or 55 gr SX starting at 13 gr and work up watching for pressure signs and violent ejection.

Larry Gibson

[abunaitoo]

Formed some cases today.
Had the form and trim dies, so was easy.
I formed the neck to set the head space.
Used a washer over the shell holder. Sanded it thinner until I got the head space I wanted.
Found a problem with the die set.
Seems they were made from cut down .223 dies.
Problem is no crimp.
I made a dummy for testing.
All I had was 55gr and 45gr bullets.Both 223.5 diameter.
I've read that 224 bullets may be to big.
I'll have to slugg the bore to find out.
The 55gr had to be seated so far in that it has to have a crimp.
The 45 looks like it might work without crimping, but I'm not sure.
I think a Lee 218 Bee factory crimp die can be made to work.
Will try shooting it single load until I get the crimp die.
Don't have any Lil'gun, so I'll use I4227

[abunaitoo]

Back again.
Fixed some problems with the rifle.
Seems they were having problems with cases blowing up.
Erratic extraction.
The piston was broken. Replaced the piston and had problems with the nut backing out.
Seems the threads are holding in only at the bottom.
Also noticed a crack at the hole.
Tried different ways to keep the nut in.
Finally I just had to weld it on.
Not the best solution, but last resort.
Seems to have solved the problem.
I've been using Sierra .40gr 223 Hornet bullets. 2400 powder.
11.3, 11.5, 11.7. Primers flat. 11.7 primers starting to back out.
Accuracy is best at 11.5.
Suggestion on weather to go faster powder, Blue dot, or slower powder, I4227?????

[TD1886]

I loaded for one back in the early '70s, a friends. Wasn't difficult but I did adjust the FL die for headspacing to the chamber. Loads with 55 gr bullets shot ok....2 moa....but because of violent ejection the velocity wasn't much better than 22 Hornet. He D&T'd the gas port (not into the bore) and put a plug between the cylinder and bore. We then worked up a load with H4227 or H4198 getting 1.5 - 2 moa with the 50 gr Hornady SX at 3000 fps. Pressure seemed ok. He then drilled the smallest hole with the smallest # drill through the plug and test for function. Had to enlarge with just 2 or 3 next size larger drills untill function was 100%. He was very happy with it and was still using it last Iknew.

If i recall correctly we used 221 Rem Fireball start loads minus 10% as start loads for the Spitfire. Were I loading for the Spitfire (14" or faster twist) today I would use Lil'gun powder under a 50 or 55 gr SX starting at 13 gr and work up watching for pressure signs and violent ejection.

Larry Gibson

I just found this thread. I have to make some statements about the load Larry posted. First one of my best friends actually made the Johnson Spitfires along with a fellow worker. I learned much about this rifle and cartridge. BTW he said they tested them to 58K. The initial manufacture request was the rifle was to be on a military stock and also have the bayonet lug. There was a possiblity these were going to Vietnam. Later on the company making them started putting them out in a Monte Carlo sporter stock without the bayonet band. Okay we loaded up some Speer 50 grain Varminters. New cases were use. The first round fired blew the case and blew the extractor off. After putting the parts back together, as there was no damage to the rifle and BTW the action was fully locked up, the next one we fired we had to pound the action open with a brass hammer. The primer was flat as could be and the case had a little mini belt around the base. These were with 13 grains of Lil Gun. I would recommend starting much lower then the 13 grains mentions and work up and watch for pressure signs as Larry suggested. Mind you all not all Johnston Spitfire chambers are the same. Why that 13 grain load was an overload in our rifle we don't know. One more thing in shooting this rifle before this incident it was capable of 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards after some work on the trigger. It does have the slower twist. Fun little rifle.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I was hoping this thread was about outboard motors :(

[racepres]

I have been shooting the 22/30 Oreskey for about 20 years, in my contender...uses basically 218 Bee loading data.. damn thing is wonderfully accurate with j-word Bullets sized 222...Not 223... Hornet bullets if you will... neat little round, But Not even close to a 222, for Boolits!!!

[TD1886]

For those of you with Quickload punch Larry's load of 13 grains of Lil Gun with a 55 grain Hornady SX and see what you come up with.

[SSGOldfart]

I was hoping this thread was about outboard motors :(

me too:popcorn:

[farmerjim]

I had a 7 1/2 HP Johnson way back then.

[ulav8r]

Dad's 5.5 Johnson is still hanging in the shop. It usually started on the first pull even when it had not been used in months, or even years. It ran real smooth, would idle very slow, but not push a boat very fast. Probably needs a different prop. Our neighbor had a 3.5 Evinrude that was much faster. It would plane a 14 foot jon boat with his wife sitting on the very front. Dad's motor in a 1959 model. I hope to get it out and running in a couple of years

[GregLaROCHE]

I remember those engines. At te time we thought the horsepower was adequate.

[Larry Gibson]

...........If I recall correctly we used 221 Rem Fireball start loads minus 10% as start loads for the Spitfire. Were I loading for the Spitfire (14" or faster twist) today I would use Lil'gun powder under a 50 or 55 gr SX starting at 13 gr and work up watching for pressure signs and violent ejection.

Larry Gibson

On further discussion and research I do not suggest 13 gr of Lil'Gun as a "starting load". It appears, for some reason, Lil'Gun seems to increase pressures somewhat faster in this diminutive case. Again, a caution to start at probably 9 gr and work up. I also suggest, if the rifle has a 16" twist (as were the original Johnson's) then a 40 gr bullet would be preferred.

[TD1886]

On further discussion and research I do not suggest 13 gr of Lil'Gun as a "starting load". It appears, for some reason, Lil'Gun seems to increase pressures somewhat faster in this diminutive case. Again, a caution to start at probably 9 gr and work up. I also suggest, if the rifle has a 16" twist (as were the original Johnson's) then a 40 gr bullet would be preferred.

I'm glad we got together on this Larry. You are correct that Lil Gun does build pressure somewhat faster in this diminutive case. It acts almost like Bullseye. I'm at the present going to test Lil Gun in my 22 Hornet, another diminutive case, and see how it reacts in that.

Thanks for posting this Larry.

TD

[abunaitoo]

Never used Lil Gun, so never thought of trying it.
I like slower burning powders.
Less strain on the rifle.

[Johnch]

Good luck
I bought a used and abused 22 Spitfire in the late 80's
It grouped at best about 8" at 100 yards
Also there was a slight problem in the trigger group
So it would fire about 90% of the time I pulled the trigger
I sold the rifle , dies and 50 pieces of brass
Told the guy about the problems
He tried to Bubba it and then complained when he got a case stuck as he sized the brass

I smiled

John

[TD1886]

Good luck
I bought a used and abused 22 Spitfire in the late 80's
It grouped at best about 8" at 100 yards
Also there was a slight problem in the trigger group
So it would fire about 90% of the time I pulled the trigger
I sold the rifle , dies and 50 pieces of brass
Told the guy about the problems
He tried to Bubba it and then complained when he got a case stuck as he sized the brass

I smiled

John

John that's interesting what you said about the guy you sold that rifle to getting a case stuck while sizing because for a peek squeak little case it is one of the hardest to size with very good case lube. Here I thought I had a sizer die problem.

BTW my rifle shoots much smaller groups at 100 yards. She wants to hover around 5/8th inch group.

[TD1886]

Never used Lil Gun, so never thought of trying it.
I like slower burning powders.
Less strain on the rifle.

I agree with you and Lil Gun acts like Bullseye! Look up pressure problems with Lil Gun and the internet see what you come up with!!!!