New to me Marlin 1894SS 44 mag/44 spl

[lpel]

So I recently purchased two Marlin 1894s. One in 357 the other in 44 mag.

This post is about my 1894SS JM made in 2003 it's the 44 mag. I have been reading as much as I can as I am new to lever actions. I do want to cast for them both as I have most of the equipment already. The rifle came with a bunch of loaded rounds in 200, 240 and 300 Hornady XTPs. The 200 and 240 shoot very well in stout loads of H110. I have not shot the 300s yet. The rifle came equipped with Skinner peeps. It also shoots very well the loads I have been using in my H&R Model 155. That load is 22 gr of H110 using a plated Campro 240 gr bullet. To date all of my shooting has been at 50 yards. The loads will put 3 of 5 shots all touching and the others out of that a bit. I would say about 3".

I have a chance to purchase a Lyman 4 cavity 429421 mold. Which I understand is a 250 gr Keith design non gas checked. I have asked the fellow to see what the cast diameter is.

I understand my bore will likely be around 430-432 and a mould casting 433-434 would be most desirable. I have not slugged my bore to date but will do so soon. I have an RCBS Luberisizer and am wondering where I would get a 434 sizer for it? I understand I could modify a Lee to this diameter but am unsure how to do this and I would prefer not to use Lee Liquid Alox. I will be using WW lead.

Failing the above noted mold any recommendation for a Lee TL mold or steer clear?

I also have no idea if the rifling on this rifle is Ballard or Microgroove despite all my research. How can I tell? Sorry to ask such a dumb question.

Am I on the right track with this project? Do not plan on using it to hunt. Mainly paper punching and steel gongs. Any advice appreciated. Thanks for looking.

[bpatterson84]

Look down the barrel, lots of trists or just a few? Lots is micro, few are ballard. Also, I've hear the Keith boolit doesn't feed great in the '94.

[joatmon]

I have also heard the 429421 may give problems in a lever gun.
Aaron

[slohunter]

429421 works well in my Marlin when I use .44 special cases.

[lpel]

Ok just a few twists so it's a Ballard. Thanks for the tips.

[buckshotshoey]

Take the time to slug the barrel before you start thinking of a mould. Also check the twist rare. If it's a 1 in 38, you might have to stick to common pistol bullet weights. The 300's may or may not stabilize. You won't know for sure till you try.

[kungfustyle]

Slug the bbl with soft lead. I have a Rossi in 44 mag. This is where the adventure begins. On this side of it, I wish I had made another choice. Problems:
Reloading die are set up for pistol sammi specs at .429 and rifle specs are to .432 Wisky Tango Foxtrot (sorry little venting) use a "O" press because anything that flexes will put offset the bullet seating/crimp.
Second no one sells a size die at .433 except bufflao arms they run about $50, or noe has the push true so you can pan lube great option sucks when its the only one. I've tried the 429421 and 429244, both too small. Powder coated the 429244 and it works well. Tried to beagle the 429244 and it won't feed, 429421 won't feed the nose is too long. Look at NOE's Ranch Dog mold and their 290 g fn (I have this one and it is a fantastic round) but a PITA to reload (have to seat with my 45acp die and crimp with the 44 mag die)
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=37_203&osCsid=g3udhij1cj5hfllo7cvrj8j935
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=37_478&osCsid=g3udhij1cj5hfllo7cvrj8j935
the RD looks like it will solve the problem the end of the ogive is .427 so it should fit into the reloading die and crimp.
third option is http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc
at 13c/round its hard to pass up on some good jacketed projectiles.

[lpel]

Oh boy what have I gotten myself in to. OK I'll hold off on the mold till I do more homework. The twist is 1/38. I am ok with being limited to pistol bullets weights. So bullet weights will be between 200-240. I'll slug the barrel before going any further.

You guys are a wealth of information.

[OverMax]

Neither rcbs or Lyman make a 433 -434 lube sizing die in my search. Although you can ask a Vendor Sponsor on this site by the name of
Lathesmith who will gladly make either size RCBS fitting Lube-sizer 2 die for you at a reasonable price.

[TCFAN]

I had Lathesmith make me a .4345 Lyman style lube /size die for my lyman 450 lube sizer.I have a Accurate made mold that drops at .434 and weighs 230 grains cast with COWW.I lube in my 450 with the .4345 die and then size with a Lee push through sizer at .433. It works for me in my Marlin 44 Mag. Cowboy.

[lpel]

Good information so far.

Slugged my barrel today and surprisingly it came out at .429".

[kungfustyle]

YOU ARE A LUCKY DOG!!!! You have just dodged a massive bullet. the 429667 or the like should be right on for you. H110/2400/4227 and you'll be shooting them out at about 17 to 1800fps. Look at the Lee and RCBS molds too. Enjoy that rifle, you got a grate one.

[lpel]

So kf what Lee or RCBs molds would you recommend?

[cainttype]

The NOE push-through system works in a standard 7/8"x14 reloading press.
Tumble lubes are probably used much more than pan-lubing in these set-ups. Making your own lube is possible, but White Lable Lubes offers 45-45-10 at a great price (if LEE's mule-snot is to be avoided easily).
Al currently offers an adapter for the Star lubri-sizer to use the same $10 bushings. Maybe he could be persuaded to offer adaptors for RCBS, Lyman, or Saeco... never hurts to ask.

After slugging your rifle's throat/bore and deciding on your diameter, check out NOE's selection. They will probably have exactly your size in stock.
Adding additional diameters for $10 each is a great option. Your 357 carbine might benefit from the versatility.

[Duckiller]

Lyman 429421 may give you a boolit the is too long to feed in your gun. COAL of about 1.710. Std is 1.610" The Lyman makes boolits that can be used a a single shot in the rifle and is great in Super blackhawks. If you find a mold that gives boolits that havean OAL of 1,610 please let me know. Others are probably interested.

[lpel]

I think I'll pass on the 429421 mold at least for now and look for something in the 200-240 gr weight. Neglecting the 44 mag as I concentrate on getting my 357 to shoot.

[kidmma]

I have the same rifle, Marlin 44s. It is Micro groove and needs at least 430 or 431. It is best with a FRN bullet to feed reliably. I've only used these with about 8gr Unique. All j word boolits have worked fine. Cast 429 diameter has tumbled on me so keep that in mind. ;-) 429667 yes!
Enjoy!

[kungfustyle]

Your best bet would be the 429667. Been looking at https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0004482156/double-cavity-rifle-bullet-mould-number-429-240-sil-429-caliber-point430-240-grain-silhouette
However, I don't know for sure if this one will feed.
I know for sure that the https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-precision-reloading-equipment/lee-molds/bullet-molds/44-special-44-mag-4440/lee-6-cav-mold-429-200-rf- Works well, chambers, feed and fires great. However, you may have to visit pat marlins to get a plane base gas check. And yes, they work great.
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-precision-reloading-equipment/lee-molds/bullet-molds/44-special-44-mag-4440/lee-6-cav-mold-tl430-240swc Works well, chambers, feed and fires great. I've used this one in my Rossi did great. Cast it with the right alloy and lube it with 45/45/10 alox or ben's new alox/johnson's paste wax combo.

[lpel]

Thanks for the tips kid and kung. I am leaning towards trying the two cavity Lee 240 TL mainly for simplicity. I know I can get them easily up here. As for Lyman in sure I can source one eventually. Just curious if the 429667 comes w/o gas check or can be shot as is? Gas checks will be difficult to locate and I'm not really looking to shoot a steady diet of magnum loads anyway.

I did read up on Bens Red yesterday and may have to try that. Unfortunately I cannot recall the las time I have seen Johnston Paste wax anywhere! Almost a thing of the past.

Not familiar with 45/45/10 but will see what I can find.

Would the Lee Liquid Allox work with the Lee TL till I can find/make a replacement?

Thanks again fellas.

[kungfustyle]

If you have a home depot nearby you have Johnson's paste wax. Yellow tin. Heat up a pot, outside and melt the past wax mix in an equal part of alox, turn off the burner and add in some mineral spirits just to get it back into its liquid state ( the last 10%) it will keep forever and you may have to reheat it to get it pooring again but it makes the best tumble lube out there. Ben made the same mix but used liquid johnson's wax 50-50 with alox. I haven't tried it but Ben knows what he's doing. LLStuff sells the 45/45/10 already mixed and ready to go. http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=47&zenid=7573cbe29ea3d6a3becfa16927939339 that 16 oz er will last a long, long time.

[kungfustyle]

Yes, the Lee's alox will work but it's nasty stuff. As for the molds you can shoot any thing as long as it matches the pressure. With the pb mold's keep them under 1400 fps and your alloy about 14 or 15 bn and you should be OK. Any faster and you'll need to harden them up or GC them. I bought 1000 gc from http://gaschecks.castpics.net/ for about $30 or you can get a gas check maker from Pat Marlin for about $85. As long as you drink soda's or beer you be in gas check supply. By the way Pat Marlin gas check makers can make pb gc. A real bonus. They really work and you can just slap them on a plane base cast boolit.

[CIC]

I love alox for bullet lube. I typically thin mine a bit with mineral spirits and give them two light coats. I also use JPW but I use it unaltered. Just a small glob in a ziplock bag and work it around. The OP mentioned the Lee 240 TL. That is what I use in my rossi and it is a real good shooter. I did have to lap my mold to get a larger diameter bullet but that was no big deal.

[buckshotshoey]

Ben come up with an alternative to the Johnsons wax. It is Lundmark liquid paste wax I believe. He posted it here somewhere.

[buckshotshoey]

Found it..... post number 12.....it is his recipe for BLL, not Ben's Red.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?323216-Ben-s-Liquid-Lube-is-the-Best-Lube-Ever!

[Shuz]

I have experience with several Marlin 1894's in .44 mag, a Winchester 1894 in .44 mag and a Rossi 92 in .44 mag. THE best boolit design for feeding lever action .44's is a RNFP like the Lyman 429667,or the Lee 200RNFP. These two designs worked well as far as feeding goes in all rifles, but accuracy wasn't there in the Marlins due to my bbl's requiring .433+ boolits, so I sold those rifles. I wish now I had tried fatter boolits in them. You are indeed fortunate to have a Marlin Ballard bbl that slugs .429". I suggest that you buy a Lee 6C in the 200RNFP. You will turn out a pile of boolits in a hurry, and whether you size them or tumble lube them, you will have a great time! Good luck!--Shuz

[longbow]

Take notice of the comments about the Lyman 429421. I went that route when I got my .44 Marlin and had poor success. Accuracy was poor, leading was substantial and feeding was... well, let's say problematic.

The 429421 is too long for OAL and I found fed poorly. My mould also cast at 0.429" using wheelweights and it turns out the groove diameter is 0.4315" so undersize boolit. I now have moulds that cast from 0.433" to 0.435" and they work very well. If it'll chamber it'll shoot.

You can seat the 429421 boolit deeper and crimp over the front driving band but for my gun, feeding was still poor. I modified the cartridge stop to handle longer OAL and modified the carrier to get decent feeding with SWC boolits but I recommend using an RNFP design.

The 1:38" twist will work with boolits of up to 270 gr. or so in my experience. I could not get reliable accuracy past 100 yards with heavier boolits. Some do but I couldn't. I shoot a lightweight plinker of 165 gr. and up to 270 gr. with good results. The gun has been a challenge though and still is in some regards. I am now suffering from the "feeding two through" though the usual causes don't seem to be present. I will be checking rim diameters and mag stop shortly to see if there is an issue there.

Oddly I still like the gun.

Longbow

[lpel]

All great information so far as I read and reread each post. I will not rush in to buying any mould right now. So far it has shot very well with the loaded rounds I got with the gun. Albeit at only 50 yards. I will try it out soon at 100.

I have shot Speer and Hornady bullets weighing 200, 240 and 300 and they all shoot fine as far as I'm concerned. I do not have any cast bullets to try with it yet.

[longbow]

I found that mine shot pretty well with 240 gr. factory loads but when I tried Hornady 300 gr. TC bullets they did okay at 50 yards but were sideways by 100 yards. Much the same with cast PP 300 gr. boolits as well. Good accuracy at 50 yards but somewhere between 50 and 100 yards they lost stability and key holed.

270 gr. was as heavy as I could get good stability with out to 200 yards.

I have been told that WFN designs at 300 grs. will shoot well past 100 yards if pushed hard. I haven't tried those designs as the 270 gr. is as heavy as I need for anything.

My Mihec H&G #503 shoots very well out of my gun and weighs in at 258 grs. IIRC solid. The Mihec 434640 also shoots very well from gun and is at about 270 grs. solid. The RNFP designs like the Mihec 434640 feed very well.

[lpel]

So Longbow today I shot the 44 at 100 yards with the loaded ammo I got with the gun. It shot the 200 and 240 gr XTPs very well. 2 1/2 -3" with Skinner peeps. So I was happy with that.

As you said it did not shoot the 300 XTPs or Speer very well. They did not keyhole but groups opened up to about 12" and 6". All groups were 3 shots.

So it looks like 200-240 gr bullets are what I should consider looking at.
Keeping in mind none of the were cast, they were all jacketed.

Oh I meant to ask. Did you order your molds direct? And no problem shipping to Canada?

[lpel]

Well some things are starting to come together. Looks like my Marlin will shoot either 200 or 240 gr boolits reasonably well. So thinking of Lee 200 TL or 200 RNFP as was recommended here or 240 TL.

Been reading up on powder coating. Just wondering of your experiences or recommendations or not on this process.

To be honest looking at simplifying process as much as possible. Even though I am retired! Time seems to be an issue. Try it or stay away?

[Pirate69]

Very true. I can get them to stabilize at 75 yards but they start to yaw at 100 yards, Still good enough for a woods gun.



Take the time to slug the barrel before you start thinking of a mould. Also check the twist rare. If it's a 1 in 38, you might have to stick to common pistol bullet weights. The 300's may or may not stabilize. You won't know for sure till you try.

[kungfustyle]

If you are looking at simplifying the process use what you already have. Powder coat is cool because it is easy to clean up, however, it does take about three extra steps and you will have to decide weather its worth it. I powder coat for my revolvers because it only take three patches to clean up. However, the Rossi 44 with the correct fitting boolits and Randy Rats tack 1 clean up is only about 4 patches or so anyway. Pan lube, go for it. If you tumble lube stick to it. If you have a lyman/rcbs sizer use it. All methods work and no seance adding to the mix. IMHO.

[kungfustyle]

By the way if I don't get 2" groups at 100 yards with cast boolits, I sell the gun. I still have my Rossi. I just gc the boolit and Lube with Randy Rats tac 1. Load it over H110 with Winchester or CCi LPP. My 300 G boolit I have to seat with my 45 ACP die and crimp with my RCBS crimp/seating die.

[longbow]

The moulds I have ordered were no problem at all. I have two NOE moulds, 3 Mihec moulds, an Accurate Molds mold and 3 or 4 Lyman moulds that were ordered and shipped no problem. Moulds aren't considered reloading components so are okay. bullets/boolits, brass, primers and powder are a different story.

If you want a heavier boolit, you should be good to 265/270 gr. but again, I'd stick with RNFP so feeding isn't an issue and check nose length to make sure loaded rounds aren't longer than listed max. OAL. The 429421 has a long nose after the crimp groove so rounds are longer than max. OAL.

Longbow

[Ramjet-SS]

I think the Accurate 44 mould WFN 270 grain is great compromise for the 44 and being GC it can be driven pretty darn fast. It is accurate even from a 1:38 when driven moderate or higher. [URL="http://http://www.accuratemolds.com/img/bullets/detail/43-270L-D.png"]

[lpel]

Similar to my 357 Marlin post I have decided I will try the Lee 6 cavity 240 gr TL mold and I will Powder Coat these. I am hoping not to have to size but if I do I will use the Lee sizer in 430 to start and open it up if required.

[historicfirearms]

Look into the ranch dog boolits at NOE. I've got the 240 and 265 grain versions and they are accurate and feed well in my lever guns and semi auto Ruger. Love that rifle too, wish I would have picked one up when Marlin was still making them.