Do we have a paper patch picture thread?

[Michael J. Spangler]

Do we?

Of all the picture thread out there I think a paper patch one would be pretty cool.

http://i.imgur.com/u7UCVUAl.jpg

[wmitty]

Good looking patching job!

[303Guy]

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-210F_zpsvwcdgddk.jpg (http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/MVC-210F_zpsvwcdgddk.jpg.html)

25/303
Something like a 125gr smooth sided boolit.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-404F_zps4wzy6byy.jpg (http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/MVC-404F_zps4wzy6byy.jpg.html)http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-311F_zpsy8knzzr5.jpg (http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/MVC-311F_zpsy8knzzr5.jpg.html)
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-402F_zpsx0laxhto.jpg (http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/MVC-402F_zpsx0laxhto.jpg.html)

[Michael J. Spangler]

Good looking patching job!
Thanks!


http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-210F_zpsvwcdgddk.jpg (http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/MVC-210F_zpsvwcdgddk.jpg.html)

25/303
Something like a 125gr smooth sided boolit.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-404F_zps4wzy6byy.jpg (http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/MVC-404F_zps4wzy6byy.jpg.html)http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-311F_zpsy8knzzr5.jpg (http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/MVC-311F_zpsy8knzzr5.jpg.html)
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-402F_zpsx0laxhto.jpg (http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/MVC-402F_zpsx0laxhto.jpg.html)

Nice! What alloy was that recovered one and what did you recover it from?

[Michael J. Spangler]

http://i.imgur.com/qseTCVhm.jpg

[303Guy]

Thanks!



Nice! What alloy was that recovered one and what did you recover it from?
I don't remember the alloy but it was quite soft. It looks like it was fired into water saturated wool padding.

[Huvius]

Should probably be in a spot to cover bothe Black Powder and smokeless.
Never the less, here's a lineup I've been working on lately.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/Huvius/Mobile%20Uploads/1352D89C-5F8D-4F85-9756-F6226DF630A1.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/Huvius/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1352D89C-5F8D-4F85-9756-F6226DF630A1.jpg.html)

[Michael J. Spangler]

Beautiful!
What cartridges are they?

[KenH]

This could be a GREAT thread....... "IF" it had all the photos! Somebody be nice, go back and re-load photos for your posts.... someplace other than photobucket!

[Huvius]

Beautiful!
What cartridges are they?


L to R
450 3-1/4" BPE
450/400 3"
458 Win. Mag.
577/500 No.2
500/450 No.2
50/110 Win.
360 2-1/4" BPE

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/0FDEA25C2215222/standard.jpg

577-450, Lee 405gr PBFN

http://www.fototime.com/259673ADE90A4AA/standard.jpg

.43 Remington Spanish. Left Mountain moulds 420 gr, right RCBS 43-370 F

http://www.fototime.com/F5B2831828DBFE3/standard.jpg

Swaged 530gr cup based HP for use in a .451" Whitworth MLer

http://www.fototime.com/881261E4534FC9E/standard.jpg

38-55 FBHP Swaged slugs 290gr

...............Buckshot

[Butler Ford]

My first PP cartridge:

200398

BF

[KenH]

good photos..... I guess we could call this "PP Porn"?

[Michael J. Spangler]

All beautiful pics. Now we're on a roll.
Anyone have pics of recovered boolits? From game, test media or the berm?

[Edward]

Most of what I shoot is paper patch ,here"s a couple /got lucky findin the 700 yd !200404200405200407

[303Guy]

All beautiful pics. Now we're on a roll.
Anyone have pics of recovered boolits? From game, test media or the berm?
I do - from test medium - but photobucket ..... !? Solutions?

[Michael J. Spangler]

Most of what I shoot is paper patch ,here"s a couple /got lucky findin the 700 yd !200404200405200407
Nice! I've been thinking of getting a .451 or so PP mould. Any suggestions? Is that the BACO one?


I do - from test medium - but photobucket ..... !? Solutions?

Switch to IMGUR for posting pics. Super easy.
All you have to do is click on the picture you want... click on what size in the bottom right section (i usually do large thumbnail) then click not the copy button near the bb link code.
Paste in the text box here and press post.

[KenH]

I do - from test medium - but photobucket ..... !? Solutions?

Can you still download from your PhotoBucket acct to your computer?

[Baja_Traveler]

My first attempt at paper patching...

200452

[KenH]

Hey Baja - those look good.

[NyFirefighter357]

You should be able to recover some or all your pics then upload them to http://imgur.com/

[KenH]

I sorta like this place (https://imgbb.com) because it's so clean. BUT - I know nothing about how long lasting it will be:

There is also https://postimages.org/ which seems to be pretty good.... and simple

[303Guy]

Testing postimages. This is a random patched boolit for my pig gun.

https://s19.postimg.org/jdto22cxr/TAILLESS_PATCH_005.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/jdto22cxr/)

Ok - it works just fine. Ummm .... The rotate function won't work. :confused:
This is a tail-less patch.

The reason for tail-less is shown in this image. https://s19.postimg.org/a2lutplhb/MVC-875_F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/a2lutplhb/)

[303Guy]

https://s19.postimg.org/e4yn46uin/214gr_IX_TAILLESS_UN-FIRED.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/e4yn46uin/)https://s19.postimg.org/teyibdq0v/214gr_IX_TAILLESS_FIRED.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/teyibdq0v/)https://s19.postimg.org/ehzol88hr/MVC-544F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/ehzol88hr/)https://s19.postimg.org/xs1n7jo5b/MVC-153F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/xs1n7jo5b/)

What that bore looked like when I got it. https://s19.postimg.org/oocvhyi9r/Rusted_303_bore_007.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/oocvhyi9r/)

And after fire-lapping. https://s19.postimg.org/3mcw3mcxr/Pig_Gun_Bore_008.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/3mcw3mcxr/)

That gun has no hope of ever shooting a jacketed bullet with any success. Enter paper patching!

[303Guy]

Recovered patched boolits.

https://s19.postimg.org/dw5ns073z/MVC-137F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/dw5ns073z/)https://s19.postimg.org/5hq13x62n/MVC-238F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/5hq13x62n/)https://s19.postimg.org/hibh4ndhb/MVC-232F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/hibh4ndhb/)
https://s19.postimg.org/6zbhfhatb/MVC-451F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/6zbhfhatb/)https://s19.postimg.org/gxwg1yk8v/MVC-452F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/gxwg1yk8v/)

That patch is what happens when the powder charge is too low to disintegrate the patch.
The nose section is too small too but with a soft enough alloy and enough powder the nose expands to fill the grooves.

[303Guy]

More images - postimages is fun, quick and easy!

https://s19.postimg.org/830nok1rz/MVC-535F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/830nok1rz/)https://s19.postimg.org/i7zbe4kcf/MVC-468F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/i7zbe4kcf/)https://s19.postimg.org/epnbhqjgf/MVC-490F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/epnbhqjgf/)
https://s19.postimg.org/3xpr2n3zz/001.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/3xpr2n3zz/)https://s19.postimg.org/884ey8933/Base_Ring.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/884ey8933/)https://s19.postimg.org/vauxxeakf/MVC-116F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/vauxxeakf/)https://s19.postimg.org/4yul5iadb/MVC-795F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/4yul5iadb/)

Those last three are obviously progressively increased powder charges. The patch disintegrates just fine at higher velocities. Somewhere I have a pick of a fired patched boolit still wearing it's patch!

Found it!
https://s19.postimg.org/4px0fkxkv/Patch_Base_on_Fired_Boolit.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/4px0fkxkv/) This is after it was washed in water. And another. https://s19.postimg.org/skusrosn3/Untitled.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/skusrosn3/)

This latter is very accurate in my pig gun with something like 5 gr (or less?) As30N (Bullseye equivalent).

[Michael J. Spangler]

Testing postimages. This is a random patched boolit for my pig gun.

https://s19.postimg.org/jdto22cxr/TAILLESS_PATCH_005.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/jdto22cxr/)

Ok - it works just fine. Ummm .... The rotate function won't work. :confused:
This is a tail-less patch.

The reason for tail-less is shown in this image. https://s19.postimg.org/a2lutplhb/MVC-875_F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/a2lutplhb/)

Awesome pics! I guess I'm not getting the reason for tail less? Please educate me.
What alloys and velocities were you pushing some of these?

[303Guy]

In the above photo one can see the folded over tail impressions in the boolit base. That in itself is not an issue but notice how the the trailing edge has been 'sharpened' and become uneven?

https://s19.postimg.org/3xpr2n3zz/001.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/3xpr2n3zz/)

Well, the idea was to prevent that from happening. Here is a tail-less patch boolit.
https://s19.postimg.org/bdy7fx6gv/214_Pig_Gun_20gr_2205_Dacron.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/bdy7fx6gv/)

The theory is that a distorted trailing edge is bad for accuracy.

The alloy was a fairly soft copper alloy with who knows what else in it. It was a lead sheeting alloy which rang when tapped but quite ductile. The stuff held together when fired into fine sea sand. It was quite hard after firing and turning inside out.

https://s19.postimg.org/ewa7cb7cv/MVC-618F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/ewa7cb7cv/)

Those first two were fired into rubber grounds.

No idea of velocity. Probably in the region of 1800 fps. Maybe less.

I had a load for the pig gun that drove a 194 gr boolit to 2040 fps. That's in a 14.75 inch barrel mind you, with a full case of H4350 (44 grs). The recovered boolits I have been showing were loaded with H4227 or light loads of W748 or Trailboss.

[Michael J. Spangler]

In the above photo one can see the folded over tail impressions in the boolit base. That in itself is not an issue but notice how the the trailing edge has been 'sharpened' and become uneven?

https://s19.postimg.org/3xpr2n3zz/001.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/3xpr2n3zz/)

Well, the idea was to prevent that from happening. Here is a tail-less patch boolit.
https://s19.postimg.org/bdy7fx6gv/214_Pig_Gun_20gr_2205_Dacron.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/bdy7fx6gv/)

The theory is that a distorted trailing edge is bad for accuracy.

That makes sense for sure. No leading either right?

[303Guy]

Here is a tail-less patch boolit with a wad to protect the boolit from powder kernel peening.
40gr H4350 under a 192gr boolit.

https://s19.postimg.org/3mhhhd2bj/40gr_192gr_no_filler_WAD.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/3mhhhd2bj/)

Here is one without the card wad.

https://s19.postimg.org/40itgymf3/001.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/40itgymf3/) Double click on the image for a close-up view.

[303Guy]

Patch too far over the ogive.

https://s19.postimg.org/atj6d8d8f/1917_SMLE_205gr_5gr_002.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/atj6d8d8f/)

This is a light load of 5gr Bullseye equivalent. I don't remember how I recovered the patch. Sometimes I put a catch cloth over the catch medium. That way I can tell if the patch comes off quickly or not.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Patch too far over the ogive.

https://s19.postimg.org/atj6d8d8f/1917_SMLE_205gr_5gr_002.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/atj6d8d8f/)

This is a light load of 5gr Bullseye equivalent. I don't remember how I recovered the patch. Sometimes I put a catch cloth over the catch medium. That way I can tell if the patch comes off quickly or not.


Did you find accuracy issues with the bullet wrapped that way?

[303Guy]

Did you find accuracy issues with the bullet wrapped that way?

These are all test tube recovered boolits. Just playing around to see what happens. If I can find my test tube photo's I'll post them, otherwise I'll go downstairs and take some new ones. I'm off work sick at the moment - hence all the time to play! :mrgreen:

Oh yes, I have tried boolits wrapped over the ogive and they shot great in one particular gun. With open sights i was shooting palm sized groups at 100 m! I lost the pics of those groups and the gun has been dismantled but I have a replacement action for the barrel that i want to assemble but the threads were a bit tight. The bore is very worn but not rust pitted. It is actually a Martini 303 carbine barrel which does not screw all the way up in a Lee Enfield action. It shot great anyway!

P.S. This Postimages is great! So quick and easy! I haven't tried https://imgbb.com yet and just might not since Postimages is working for me. I suppose I should though.

[KenH]

Good photos and good explanations. Thanks. There's LOTS of info for BP paper patching, but seems to be less for smokeless.

[303Guy]

Thank you.

The 'test tube' https://s19.postimg.org/z13rhs16n/MVC-558_F_edited.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/z13rhs16n/)https://s19.postimg.org/ut8z90zr3/MVC-556_F_edited.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/ut8z90zr3/)

That inner tube holds the rubber grounds or whatever medium I choose - that picture shows an opened beer can packed with saturated wool furniture padding. Great test medium to simulate bullet performance on live flesh.

The inner tube sits on top of this. https://s19.postimg.org/5bv6367en/Bullet_catcher.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/5bv6367en/) It is made from 4140 steel and has a thick base and that in turn sits on a thick plate in the bottom of the main tube. No bullet has ever dented it. They have rubber rubber between then to kill noise.

Two test cans, each with a different loading through it. https://s19.postimg.org/4nmbk88ov/MVC-572_F_edited.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/4nmbk88ov/)https://s19.postimg.org/rqcujea67/MVC-580_F_edited.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/rqcujea67/)

Real life confirmed the results of those tests. I went so far as to place more than one on top the other for penetration tests.
https://s19.postimg.org/hhkddkm4f/MVC-898_F_edited.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/hhkddkm4f/)

But those were not patched bullets! [smilie=1:

Or were they? https://s19.postimg.org/umzvjofzz/MVC-128_F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/umzvjofzz/)

[OverMax]

Lol
Now you did it. Opened a whole new pandoras box.[smilie=s:

[303Guy]

The idea of 'patching' the hornet bullets was to hold the bullet in an unsized case (my brand new sizer set disappeared!). I load a ridiculous charge of Lil'Gun, compress is down to seating depth, cut paper towel strips, use a device I made to position them and press them home with a rod, then seat the bullet onto the powder, trim off the 'petals' with an upturned case mouth, dip the bullet and neck into molten waxy-lube which soaks in, wipe off the excess and set down to cool. Those are 55 gr .224 bullets being driven down a rust damaged .223 bore. No copper fouling and no rusting. Very fast and very accurate and no case elongation - indefinite case life but I do lube the cases to eliminate case to chamber wall grip.

So in theory the bullet is being patched to take it concentrically into the generous throat (from reaming away the rust damage). thereafter the patch surely gets wiped away after having done its job. There is no sign of patch impression on the recovered bullet. Oh yes - velocity 2740 fps! Pressure right up there too. R-P cases with higher capacity and a larger than normal chamber - and the chamber is rough from reaming.

https://s19.postimg.org/nmfncyupr/MVC-134_F_edited.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/nmfncyupr/)https://s19.postimg.org/hge7680sf/MVC-129F_edited.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/hge7680sf/)https://s19.postimg.org/kbrad34sf/MVC-130F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/kbrad34sf/)https://s19.postimg.org/lfbep1pfj/MVC-131F_edited.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/lfbep1pfj/)https://s19.postimg.org/umzvjofzz/MVC-128F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/umzvjofzz/)

[Michael J. Spangler]

The idea of 'patching' the hornet bullets was to hold the bullet in an unsized case (my brand new sizer set disappeared!). I load a ridiculous charge of Lil'Gun, compress is down to seating depth, cut paper towel strips, use a device I made to position them and press them home with a rod, then seat the bullet onto the powder, trim off the 'petals' with an upturned case mouth, dip the bullet and neck into molten waxy-lube which soaks in, wipe off the excess and set down to cool. Those are 55 gr .224 bullets being driven down a rust damaged .223 bore. No copper fouling and no rusting. Very fast and very accurate and no case elongation - indefinite case life but I do lube the cases to eliminate case to chamber wall grip.

So in theory the bullet is being patched to take it concentrically into the generous throat (from reaming away the rust damage). thereafter the patch surely gets wiped away after having done its job. There is no sign of patch impression on the recovered bullet. Oh yes - velocity 2740 fps! Pressure right up there too. R-P cases with higher capacity and a larger than normal chamber - and the chamber is rough from reaming.

https://s19.postimg.org/nmfncyupr/MVC-134_F_edited.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/nmfncyupr/)https://s19.postimg.org/hge7680sf/MVC-129F_edited.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/hge7680sf/)https://s19.postimg.org/kbrad34sf/MVC-130F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/kbrad34sf/)https://s19.postimg.org/lfbep1pfj/MVC-131F_edited.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/lfbep1pfj/)https://s19.postimg.org/umzvjofzz/MVC-128F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/umzvjofzz/)


That's super cool. I read about similar style patching methods for muzzle loaders but never thought of applying it to a cartridge.
how's the accuracy with them?

[303Guy]

100m https://s19.postimg.org/y1qezmha7/MVC-604_F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/y1qezmha7/)https://s19.postimg.org/hpbrw5dkv/MVC-606_F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/hpbrw5dkv/)

At 200m it was still hitting beer cans pretty well. That first 'group' was in a cross wind. The second was into a head wind of varying intensity. Could that cause flyers? Generally anything aimed at in calm conditions was history.

[Dan Cash]

303 Guy, I hate to say it but your picture posting does nothing for me as I can't open any of them. That is a great disappointment, especially when it is your pictures of your bullets.

[Randy C]

The pictures opened up for me, I'm not a fan of the advertisement on the postimage.org sight, but you cant control that.

[303Guy]

Damn. It all worked so easy for me - no adverts, nothing. Now I'm back at work with no excuse to spend time sorting it out. Not that I know what to do about it. I can't even upload photos directly to cast boolits. Mind you, I've had it where I can't view posted pics as well.

[KenH]

As of 5:30pm CST, Aug 1st here in USA I can see photos just fine. Looks like they're hosted by https://postimages.org/ which seems to be a good site.

[Michael J. Spangler]

303 pics still look good to me.
My buddy is going to let me borrow his HOCH nose pour 550 grain and his Lyman Postell mould. Can't wait! I'll have some pics and info up when I get them.

[Buckshot]

............I don't have any photo's because back then I didn't have a camera:-) I had cast pure lead Lee 457-405 slugs and used 20# (.004") paper to patch them in my MkIV Martini. Using my favorite load in the 577-450 which was 38.0grs of IMR 3031 + dacron they gave right at 1300 fps. One slug I recovered from the dirt backstop looked like one of those Easter eggs that you could look in the back off and see a whole scene inside. The lead slug had peeled back beyond the base. Looking inside, you could see the base of the slug down there inside the slug.

..............Buckshot

[oldblinddog]

.338-06 with 240 gr. Accurate bullet. (32-220B at .331" wrapped to .340" with green bar paper.)
201752201754

[Thundarstick]

Are those gas checked and paper patched??

[oldblinddog]

Yes! They shoot very well too.

[303Guy]

Looks like a well proportioned cartridge! Nice boolits.

[Thundarstick]

Am I mistaken in thinking that paper patching negates the need for had checks? I'm confused!

[oldblinddog]

Am I mistaken in thinking that paper patching negates the need for had checks? I'm confused!


There are many ways to skin a cat. This one works for me. I tried patching them without the checks and had mixed success (mostly none). I have patched like this and also with the patch over the check and twisted but that way is not better than this way with the check exposed. This way is easier. Think of it as a composite jacket.

Yesterday I had five in 3/4" loaded over 46 gr RL15.

Those are .32/8mm checks, btw. The alloy is 8 1/2 lbs 40-1 with 1 1/2 lb of hardball added to stiffen it up to about 10.5 bhn.


Looks like a well proportioned cartridge! Nice boolits.

Thanks!

[303Guy]

I have pictures somewhere of boolit base feathering. I'll see if I can find them. Not only that but boolit base damage from powder kernel impact and patch impressions. I'd say a gas check would be beneficial.

[HABCAN]

202065

LEE .303 Brit.

[edwin41]

my 6.5x55 mm , lyman " loverin style " 140 gr noseriding design , coresize 6,50 mm and powered by 19,5 gr AA5744.
the brass is reloaded for some 30 times now , great and economical cartridge to shoot !

first foto is the parts that make up the boolit ... note the tiny round paper " disc " , as it is my thinking this is the key thing here .
its the punched out part that comes from the perforators in the office and such.
it is the correct size for the gascheck shank bottom , and I wet the disc and stick it to the bulletbase.
then I wrap my patch and tear of the exess paper , the little overhang at the base I tap with my finger to the bulletbase... so the base is protected by the paper disc and no lead is exposed.

the finished patch , when dry , is tough enough to go trough the lyman lubrisizer , where the patch is ironed out
to one smooth and tough jacket !

[Tom W.]

I am thinkingbof venturing into this aspect of our hobby. My question is can I use the same boolits that I cast for my .30/30 and .30-06 ai? I have a single shot Ruger and a NEF...

[Michael J. Spangler]

I am thinkingbof venturing into this aspect of our hobby. My question is can I use the same boolits that I cast for my .30/30 and .30-06 ai? I have a single shot Ruger and a NEF...

Should be fine.
Just read up on the proper sizing and you should be good.