20ga. to 9mm crack barrel is good to go.

[Shingle]

:razz:I used a H&R 20ga. and installed a 16" barrel liner,drilled and tapped barrel for a mini-red dot. Test fired and zeroed it just now it is water bottle capable at 25 yds. Once the liner is epoxied in place and dried I will post pics.:p

[3leggedturtle]

Sounds nice. Thought NEF missed alot of sales by not offering their singleshots in 9mm, 40s+w and 45auto. Hope your range report comes soon and goes well. Todd3/leg

[GhostHawk]

Pistol caliber carbines are IN. Cheaper to shoot, less recoil, less noise, ideally less cost to buy.

I have a stub job in a Handi rifle in 9mm. A 16" .45acp chamber adapter I hope to play with one day soon. Thinking about a .45lc either barrel or chamber adapter, long, I found zero accuracy in short ones.

We'll see how the .45acp does.

Have also been considering picking up the last Hipoint carbine I don't have. Again in .45acp. I have the dies, the mold, good recipes, no reason not to have another gun able to shoot those rounds. I even have a 25 lb box of .45acp brass to load if I ever get ambitious.

[Shingle]

I have found a load that it really likes a 115gr. lee hollowpoint over 5.5gr. BA-7.5. It shoots 1" at 25 yds. at 50 yds. a tad over 2". Thats better than my ar9's and camp carbine. It cost a total of $200 including the gun.

[Ateam]

Shingle,
Sorry to zombie thread this one, but where did you get your liner? I just picked up a topper for a song, with a 45acp conversion in mind.

[marlinman93]

Shingle,
Sorry to zombie thread this one, but where did you get your liner? I just picked up a topper for a song, with a 45acp conversion in mind.

Doubt you can use a true "liner" for this. Need to find a barrel and turn it down to fit. Liners don't normally come large enough to fill a 20 ga. bore.

[Whiterabbit]

I have a 20ga ultralite, and did NOT want to sacrifice lightness.

Therefore, I kept the 20ga barrel.

I did though, have a 5" piece of .357 barrel that I cut off a 357 mag barrel.

I profiled the back like a 3" 20ga shell, turned the front to well clear the barrel in front of the chamber, crowned it, then chambered in 9mm.

GTG. Like having a 9mm carbine, but none of the weight.




Anyone that owns a 357 handi rifle knows you can't get it much down under 8 lb. my 20ga ultralight is like 5.5.

[Whiterabbit]

idea number two is to do a stub job with a 5 inch barrel. Massive SBR. To fix that, I could take some electrical conduit, strip off the zinc coating and solder it as a 16" sleeve over the 3 inches of barrel tat stick out in front of hte stubb.

Would be even lighter than the shotgun still, with one HECK of a flash hider :)

sure wish I could still find H&R barrels for cheap. Seem to be made of unobtanium these days.

[Ateam]

Doubt you can use a true "liner" for this. Need to find a barrel and turn it down to fit. Liners don't normally come large enough to fill a 20 ga. bore.

If my maths are correct a 20ga bore is .615, and the barrel liner I am looking at (track of the wolf) is 5/8 (.625) OD. Leaving me to subtract a hundredth from one of the two pieces. The only part that has me slightly concerned is the chamber area which I might just devcon and be done with it. Silver solder will not fill a gap that big (.04) unassisted, been considering trying some de-soldering wick to fill the gap, when it is saturated it will be a solid bond. Anyone ever tried this? Probably some No2 (.030 thickness) or No5 (.060 thickness) depending on actual measurements taken with a pin gauge after fitting is completed. Sorry for the ramble.

[marlinman93]

You could thread a sleeve internally and then thread the OD of the liner to make up the chamber area. A cross pin and epoxy or Loctite might also work. Then turn the sleeve down to chamber dimensions.

[Ateam]

Interesting idea, i could just use a cut off portion of the 20ga barrel to locktite on the liner and turn it down to chamber dimensions.

[Ateam]

A slightly off topic question; Is it wise to make the barrel 16'' (rifle minimum), or 18'' (shotgun minimum)? The reason I ask is, if I locktite the thing together it is possible to remove the liner with some heat. Leaving you with an illegal shotgun. Anyone have any knowledge on this? I am leaning towards 18 anyway, as it looks like it will balance better, and avoid an possible legal headaches.

[GhostHawk]

I have a 9mm barrel for a handi rifle that started as a shotgunbarrel.

The guy that built mine cut a square edge where it touches the shortened shotgun barrel.

The breech end has a nut that tensions it correctly for headspace, and was welded into place.

As far as the short shotgun barrel, as long as it is not still chambered for a shotgun shell I think you would be ok. As it is not complete without the liner. Can't be used as a short shotgun.

Where if you used a chamber adapter you had best leave the shotgun barrel at 18 + inches. As it is capable of shooting a shotgun shell.

DAMM BATF makes all this stuff on purpose to make us criminals I swear.

[Good Cheer]

A slightly off topic question; Is it wise to make the barrel 16'' (rifle minimum), or 18'' (shotgun minimum)? The reason I ask is, if I locktite the thing together it is possible to remove the liner with some heat. Leaving you with an illegal shotgun. Anyone have any knowledge on this? I am leaning towards 18 anyway, as it looks like it will balance better, and avoid an possible legal headaches.

People being people 18" would avoid the inevitable (someone with legal authority stupidly making your life hell). Not slamming people in enforcement positions; it's just that in decision making nobody knocks it out of the park every time. A moment of wrong thinking on the part of a person adopting enforcement responsibilities can mess up your life so keep the two inches and don't force someone having a bad day to make a decision.

[Good Cheer]

Meanwhile, isn't it surprising that someone isn't commercially producing .45ACP inserts with extractors that one would permanently JBWeld into 12 Ga. single shots? What would be optimum, maybe 10" or 12" length?
But then would an enforcement person be faced with deciding whether you have an integral suppressor without having purchased permission?

[skeettx]

http://mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm

[marlinman93]

A slightly off topic question; Is it wise to make the barrel 16'' (rifle minimum), or 18'' (shotgun minimum)? The reason I ask is, if I locktite the thing together it is possible to remove the liner with some heat. Leaving you with an illegal shotgun. Anyone have any knowledge on this? I am leaning towards 18 anyway, as it looks like it will balance better, and avoid an possible legal headaches.

That would not be a legal issue for you or anyone else. It would only be a legal issue for the person who did so. Just like someone cutting their shotgun barrel shorter than minimum length. If you epoxy in a liner or barrel, then you've made it permanent by law. Whatever someone did to modify the barrel later is the criminal.
But I'd personally want my barrel as long as I could, just for balance and sight radius. I love 30"-34" barrel, and lean towards the 34" when I'm building single shots.

[Ateam]

I found another liner source, but the stated twist is 1:12. I have only ever seen a 1:16 for the 45 acp. Anyone ever see this twist rate? Any idea how this will affect ideal boolit weight?

[Ateam]

well I went and ordered the unknown ebay barrel here

http://www.ebay.com/itm/45-Cal-Rifled-Barrel-Liner-Chambered-Flush-for-45-ACP-21-1-4-Long/122317992926?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

for 40 bucks it was hard to say no. I slugged the bbl and chamber, and every dimension came out to what were advertised (bbl) or sami spec (chamber).

I also cut the topper bbl to 21 1/2 to use the full liner length. I may loose a few fps on standard 45acp pistol loads, but if I want to develop a dedicated rifle load with a slower powder, I think the extra length will come in handy. I looked through my "box of open sights", and found some off a savage SML, williams fiberoptic, which fit the bbl contour well. How far do I need to set them for the best sight picture? Any ideas on making an easy peep sigh like my xs peep?

I am going to turn .025 of the liner and see how it fits today. wish me luck.

[marlinman93]

I always try to get my iron sights as far apart as I can. But also don't push the front sight too far forward. I like 1" to center from the end of the muzzle. In order to get even longer sight radius, and better sights on my Buffalo Classic, I inletted a brass base into the wood at the wrist, and D&T for a vernier tang sight. It really made the gun a better, more versatile rifle for longer range shooting.

[rking22]

Ok depends on your vision. Set the rear sight on the barrel and slide it fore and aft till it gives a good sight picture with the front. Many old guns show remnants of the long time owner moving the rear sight forward as he aged and eyes became troublesome.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Curious about your extractor. Is the original tall enough to eject the pistol cartridge, or did you modify it?

[Kosh75287]

DAMM BATF makes all this stuff on purpose to make us criminals I swear. Can't argue with THAT.

[Ateam]

Curious about your extractor. Is the original tall enough to eject the pistol cartridge, or did you modify it?

I have not gotten to the extractor (actually an ejector) yet. Though i will likely just tig weld on an extension.

[Ateam]

Ok depends on your vision. Set the rear sight on the barrel and slide it fore and aft till it gives a good sight picture with the front. Many old guns show remnants of the long time owner moving the rear sight forward as he aged and eyes became troublesome.

I think I am going to contact williams and see if they will sell me just the peep portion of the rear sight. I like the long sight radius of the peeps. My eyes are very good, and I could move the sight (fiber optic) most of the way to the rear of the barrel, but it seems like the perceived gap (notch) gets too large for good precision.

[olafhardt]

I have made several peep sights out of L shaped pieces of metal. To keep them from flopping I put a little spring washer on them. You can drill and tap the top of the shot gun chamber to bolt the scope on. Drill whatever size apeture hole you want. I drill and tap a hole close to the muzzel and screw in a nylon screw for a front sight. This screw can be trimmed to adjust for elevation. The little L shaped rear sight can be moved tangentally to adjust windage. The rear sight can be drilled and tapped for a set screw. I make the rear sights out of 1/8×1/2 or 1/8×3/4 flat steel or old hack saw blades with the teeth ground off. Of course you can use a black or stainless steel or brass screw in front. I like nylon and it is tough and highly visible in the woods but might be a problem in the snow. If I wanted to carry extra front sights, I would drill and tap holes in the stock. A nut can be twisted on the front sight to act as a stanchion. I have used this type of sight on a variaty of rifles and shotguns for years and they work.

[rking22]

I have a 357 Handi setup with the Williams converted to a peep. Parts came from my friendly neighborhood gunships junk box. Seems most people like scopes , so there are some loose parts for free !
I had to open the radius of the base, used devcon to then get a perfect fit, just takes a tiny bit.

[kywoodwrkr]

I have not gotten to the extractor (actually an ejector) yet. Though i will likely just tig weld on an extension.
Does the Topper share extractor/ejector dimensions with the Handi ?
Thanks.

[Ateam]

Does the Topper share extractor/ejector dimensions with the Handi ?
Thanks.

I am not sure about interchangeability, try the search function, it yielded lots of info on turning an ejector into an extractor.

[Ateam]

I went ahead and ordered this peep. Gotta lover numrich.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/530190

I am not sure it will fit the radius of the topper quite right, but that is what bedding with devcon is for...

[kywoodwrkr]

I am not sure about interchangeability, try the search function, it yielded lots of info on turning an ejector into an extractor.

Thank you.
I have analyzed the Handi conversion, and have made both replacement extractors and ejectors.
Wondered what design changes there were in the two, Handi and Topper.
Thanks.

[Texas by God]

The old Topper had a rebounding hammer. When H&R became NEF/H&R 1871 they went with the transfer bar system. So "Toppers" can be found both ways. Pardners are only transfer bar. The other parts are the same as far as I know.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[BAGTIC]

I have a 20ga ultralite, and did NOT want to sacrifice lightness.

Therefore, I kept the 20ga barrel.

I did though, have a 5" piece of .357 barrel that I cut off a 357 mag barrel.

I profiled the back like a 3" 20ga shell, turned the front to well clear the barrel in front of the chamber, crowned it, then chambered in 9mm.

GTG. Like having a 9mm carbine, but none of the weight.




Anyone that owns a 357 handi rifle knows you can't get it much down under 8 lb. my 20ga ultralight is like 5.5.

Does that big empty 20 gauge barrel contribute to diminishing muzzle noise?

[Texas by God]

I am currently making one like yours except in .32 acp. I'm using the muzzle end of a cutoff Rem 788 .308 barrel.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Multigunner]

Does that big empty 20 gauge barrel contribute to diminishing muzzle noise?

I've considered making a .32 S&W Long insert for a 12 gauge single shot using a section of new condemned .303 barrel cut off at the rear sight cross pin hole. It occurred to me that one might fit baffles and end wipe to the shotgun barrel making it into an integral suppressor.

Slender tie rods could be threaded into the shell sized chamber insert section and baffles mounted onto these using spacers, the end cap with wipe then being secured by counter sunk nuts. Even without a wipe it would be very quiet.

The larger bore flare guns people have been converting to pistol calibers would be another candidate. The shorter barreled ones could have tube extensions telescoped into or over the barrel.

It seems so obvious I can't imagine that it hasn't been done before. The British practice of using integrally suppressed small bore shotguns with full length cans to dispose of vermin without scaring horses and cattle gave me the idea.