Alloy based on bullet cast weight and size..

[mac1911]

Ok so Lyman mold size and weight is determined by Lyman #2 alloy correct?
Currently I cast with clip on wheel weights and the size is smaller than what the mold says.
I have 3 Lyman molds and all drop smaller than what they say with this alloy.
Currently my 314299 will drop .312" @ 205 grains. If I add tin by means of 60/40 solder do I just add until I get a 314" and 200 grain bullet? Will that be Lyman #2 at that point. Also on my lyman thermometer will I know I'm closer to Lyman #2 by the "scale" on the thermometer?

[Bzcraig]

To get to Lyman #2 use the alloy calculators just search it using that term. Don't think you'll get .002/.003 fatter boolits adding tin, I'd contact Lyman about the mold. Don't use a Lyman thermometer so can't answer that question. You can always powder coat and make fatter boolits.

[mac1911]

To get to Lyman #2 use the alloy calculators just search it using that term. Don't think you'll get .002/.003 fatter boolits adding tin, I'd contact Lyman about the mold. Don't use a Lyman thermometer so can't answer that question. You can always powder coat and make fatter boolits.

Thank you but I have all but given up on the alloy calculator. I for what ever reason get "read only" format and can't imput data.

[hermans]

mac1911, PM in bound

[Lloyd Smale]

like Bzcraig said ive never notice any significant difference in bullet size by adding tin or alloying ww. You might see a tiny difference between #2 and pure lead because the #2 will shrink less when cooling but if your testing them right out of the mold your probably not even going to see a measurable difference between pure and #2. Heck ive got a couple doubles in lyman molds that are the same bullet and cast different sizes. Most likely you just got a small mold. About your best bet is to try to lap it out a bit. Or maybe try a couple coats of pc.

[Guesser]

I use my Cabin tree tester to get my alloy correct. My lino and my pewter, WW and soft lead are all cast into 1 and 1/2 # Lee ingots and I have a digital scale to weigh them with. I can formulate a particular alloy quite easily by using these tools.
My pewter is modern industrial pewter....92.5% tin, 6% antimony and 1 & 1/2% copper. Makes it easy, just a matter of keeping records, which I was never good at, but it works.

[Larry Gibson]

mac1911

Ok so Lyman mold size and weight is determined by Lyman #2 alloy correct?

Most of the newer rifle moulds are. Exceptions are ML, BP and some handgun bullets which are cut for a binary alloy of lead/tin.

Currently I cast with clip on wheel weights and the size is smaller than what the mold says.
I have 3 Lyman molds and all drop smaller than what they say with this alloy.
Currently my 314299 will drop .312" @ 205 grains. If I add tin by means of 60/40 solder do I just add until I get a 314" and 200 grain bullet?

If your COWW alloy is from WWs having 97/2.5 - 3/0 - .05 composition. The larger amount of lead in the alloy is why the bullets come out smaller. Adding 2% tin to your alloy will improve it because the % of tin will balance with the % of antimony forming the submetal SbSn. That SbSn will mix into solution in the lead and stay there during solidification which produces a better alloy giving better bullets. It will also increase the fill out giving bullets of nominal diameter. You must also cast correctly with the alloy temp around 710 - 715 degrees, get the alloy into the mould as quick as possible and pour a generous sprue. A weak pour into the cavity will result in undersize bullets.

Will that be Lyman #2 at that point.

No, Lyman #2 is 95/5/5. If your COWWs have 97% lead/2.5 - 3& antimony/ .5 % tin and you add 2% tin your alloy will be, maybe, 95/ 2.5 - 3/2 - 2.5. That is a decent alloy for probably 95+% of a bullet caster needs. You can also WQ the bullets out of the mould or HT them. If done correctly your COWWs + 2% tin will have a BHN of 18-19 +/-.


Also on my lyman thermometer will I know I'm closer to Lyman #2 by the "scale" on the thermometer?

No. I suggest you ignore the scale and go by degrees. Keep the alloy between 710 and 725 when casting your alloy of COWWs + 2% tin.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

I seldom disagree with Lloyd but will here. I seriously doubt you got a "small mould". You are just using the wrong mould. A few years back a member here swore he had a new Lyman 454190 that would not cast to nominal diameter with COWWs. He was getting bullets of .451 - .452. After some discussion he sent the mould to me and a few of his cast bullets. His bullets did indeed measure .451 - .452. I cast some with COWWs +2% tin....they cast to .454+. I offered to buy the mould but he now wanted it back......go figure......:shock: Here is the bullets with micrometer measurement that I cast;

198490198491198492198493

I have a relatively new 314299 also. It casts .312 bullets with plain COWWs, .3135 - .414 with COWWs + 2% tin and .3145 - .415 with #2 alloy. All moulds, even from custom makers will show the same disparity of as cast diameters with the different alloys. Ternary alloys with a higher % content of lead and lower % content tin will shrink more as the alloy solidifies thus will cast smaller diameter bullets.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

After thinking it over I may have done a slight injustice to Lloyd; I may have slightly misinterpreted what mac1911 was wanting.

If mac1911 wants his Lyman 314299 bullet to cast .314 with just COWWs then Lloyd is absolutely correct; the Lyman mould is indeed too small. It that's the alloy mac1911 wants to use then I would suggest selling the Lyman mould and getting the NOE version which is cut for COWW alloy use. My apologies to Lloyd.

Larry Gibson

[EDG]

Start out with a certified alloy if you can. If you can't buy a certified alloy do the best you can with pure lead and tin added to wheel weights. Verify the hardness. You diameter has to be large enough to work and the proper hardness. The weight can vary from the book. Just keep the weight consistent ever if it is high or low.
Lyman molds are not calibrated. They vary all over the place in diameter, weight and roundness.

Don't give up on the alloy calculators. They are nothing but Excel spreadsheets and they are excellent to use. Get some help to fix the read only issue.



Ok so Lyman mold size and weight is determined by Lyman #2 alloy correct?
Currently I cast with clip on wheel weights and the size is smaller than what the mold says.
I have 3 Lyman molds and all drop smaller than what they say with this alloy.
Currently my 314299 will drop .312" @ 205 grains. If I add tin by means of 60/40 solder do I just add until I get a 314" and 200 grain bullet? Will that be Lyman #2 at that point. Also on my lyman thermometer will I know I'm closer to Lyman #2 by the "scale" on the thermometer?

[OS OK]

198525

This should give you an idea of what to expect out of the different alloys...

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thank you but I have all but given up on the alloy calculator. I for what ever reason get "read only" format and can't imput data.
Larry has given you some real good advice.

But if you are math-challenged, let me help you a bit, as it is fairly simple.
Now this is just some guesstimate math, right off the top of my head, so it's not super precise.
Lyman #2 is 90-5-5 (5% tin)
COWW is 97-2.5-0.5 (0.5% tin)
If you have 60/40 solder, you'll need about 1.75lbs in a 20 lb Lee pot to get near the 5% tin content of Lyman #2.
But you are not only NOT adding antimony, you are diluting the 2.5% by adding the solder.

Personally I'd take Larry's advice and try COWW +2% tin (about 0.75 lbs of your solder in a 20 lb Lee pot) and see what size you mold makes 'em...you can always add more tin.

[Lloyd Smale]

you sure don't have to apologize for disagreeing with me Larry. Your opinion means just as much as mine here and I'm far from right on every opinion I have.
After thinking it over I may have done a slight injustice to Lloyd; I may have slightly misinterpreted what mac1911 was wanting.

If mac1911 wants his Lyman 314299 bullet to cast .314 with just COWWs then Lloyd is absolutely correct; the Lyman mould is indeed too small. It that's the alloy mac1911 wants to use then I would suggest selling the Lyman mould and getting the NOE version which is cut for COWW alloy use. My apologies to Lloyd.

Larry Gibson

[mac1911]

After thinking it over I may have done a slight injustice to Lloyd; I may have slightly misinterpreted what mac1911 was wanting.

If mac1911 wants his Lyman 314299 bullet to cast .314 with just COWWs then Lloyd is absolutely correct; the Lyman mould is indeed too small. It that's the alloy mac1911 wants to use then I would suggest selling the Lyman mould and getting the NOE version which is cut for COWW alloy use. My apologies to Lloyd.

Larry Gibson

this is what i just might do.... although i love how the bullets come out adding that 2% more tin its just not worth is for the 200 yard cmp match shooting i do with these bullets. My mosin is on the larger side of bore dia. slugged at .3135. When i can get my mold to drop .314ish... previously had to run the COWW really hot to get them to fill out larger... Its to much effort casting this way to only get a handful of "larger" cast. I have yet to try beagling a mold. My one attempt did not work out so well.

[Larry Gibson]

mac1911

you may want this mould then.....life would be a lot easier with it.....:drinks:

198577

Larry Gibson

[mac1911]

mac1911

you may want this mould then.....life would be a lot easier with it.....:drinks:

198577

Larry Gibson

yes... I might have to hit the scrap yard and cash in some "?" lead to get some cash for the mold.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

mac1911

you may want this mould then.....life would be a lot easier with it.....:drinks:

198577

Larry Gibson
Mac,
you said you slugged your Rifle and the groove diameter is .3135 but what is the bore diameter?
I had this exact mold...It is a bore rider.
I bought it for a 30-40 Krag with a worn throat and a large bore/groove (.314),
The Mold dropped a .317 boolit using COWW, the issue I had was the nose of the boolit was .307
which was too large, even for that gun's worn throat.
The machining technique that NOE uses to make the 311-202, 312-202, 314-202, 316-202 all using the same Cherry, means that the nose get's progressively larger in proportion to band size.
ANYWAY, I sold the mold, but I assume I have some sample boolits laying around, some that were sized, and maybe some that weren't????maybe??? let me know if you are interested in samples and I'll search through my stash and see if I can find them.

[mac1911]

little up date:
So i took some COWW alloy 20lbs and some 60/40 solder (12oz the scale is not that accurate so it could be off a bit)
What came out of the 314299 is 200 grain bullet (this mold is out of round and I might send it back to lyman) and measures .315 on the fattest side and 313 on the smaller side.
The lee 175 grain .324 is a nice .325+ and weighs 172 grains. didnt get a lot of time at the pot but ran it around 720'F and the molds where warmed up on top of the pot...
http://i.imgur.com/OohyKAV.jpg (http://imgur.com/OohyKAV)

[mac1911]

Mac,
you said you slugged your Rifle and the groove diameter is .3135 but what is the bore diameter?
I had this exact mold...It is a bore rider.
I bought it for a 30-40 Krag with a worn throat and a large bore/groove (.314),
The Mold dropped a .317 boolit using COWW, the issue I had was the nose of the boolit was .307
which was too large, even for that gun's worn throat.
The machining technique that NOE uses to make the 311-202, 312-202, 314-202, 316-202 all using the same Cherry, means that the nose get's progressively larger in proportion to band size.
ANYWAY, I sold the mold, but I assume I have some sample boolits laying around, some that were sized, and maybe some that weren't????maybe??? let me know if you are interested in samples and I'll search through my stash and see if I can find them.

went looking fro the slug,,,,think it made its way back into the pot. Any way with the current alloy I mixed up the weight is closer to what lyman says and I get bullets closer to .314-.315 but as I said this mold is out of round compared to all my other molds.
I tested some rounds with the mosin with 16grains of 2400....nothing magical happened little over 4moa. I think this rifle is going back to straight WW or even scrap and trail boss for 50 yard milk jug hunting.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

hey, I had that problem with the alloy calculator too, first go through and highlight, delete each number, and hit enter after every one. then you can put in your own numbers ( remembering to hit enter after every entry)
also , when trying to put a decimal in, I have had problems with it saying 3.00 when I put in .003, I found it fixes that if you enter the number and put the % sign in yourself, then hit enter. it should then show up correctly. good luck, and I hope that made sense, im not great at explaining computer stuff!-Travis

[mac1911]

I basically gave up. Between the cost to ship the Lyman back and the wait time.
I decided to just go back to COWW alloy and for now run the 314299 as dropped with COWW in the mosin until I find the cash for the 316299.
I will use the Lyman 314299 for my .310"-312" needs for now.
I will save the tin for future use or scrap for the mold money.