Lee full length sizer

[megasupermagnum]

A few months ago I got a rifle in 6mm Remington, and tried a handful of loads. It didn't take long to find the winning combo of a 58gr V-Max and IMR 3031 powder. Every other load grouped around 1.25 MOA, some a little bigger. I've tried this rifle half a dozen times from sand bags shooting that combo, although it mostly gets shot sitting from a bipod. From a sandbag, I've never shot a 5 shot group bigger than .75 inches, and the smallest was .6 inches at 100 yards. The throat is worn to the point that I can't touch lands, even with 100+ grain bullets, and the only time I shot that particular load over a chronograph, the extreme deviation was almost 70 fps! Yet is shoots tiny groups, and I have shot it out to 700 yards on steel and it seemed to shoot straight. I only plan to shoot at steel for fun and practice, and hunt coyotes with this gun. Its fine the way it is, but I wonder if I could shrink the groups even more by making superior ammo. I am shooting Hornady brass, purchased new, and my current batch is on its 4th loading. I am using the Lee 3 die kit, and loading by their instructions, with the occasional trimming. I also crimp using the lee factory crimp die. This round, I want to try a primer pocket-uniformer, and de-burr the flash holes. Most importantly, I want to reduce runout. So far I have been fiddling with my Lee full length resizing die, but can't get neck run-out below about .004"(some as high as .006"). This is checked mid neck. I haven't even tried with a seated bullet yet. I have been trying to loosen, and tighten the expander ball in an attempt to get it to self center in a fired case, which has very little run-out with no success. I have been thinking of trying different dies. Everyone talks about neck sizing, and I am willing to try it, however, full length sizing is important to me. I have read lots of guys swear by the Lee neck sizing/Redding body sizing combo, and both are made in 6mm Remington. My question is, what would happen if I just pulled the expander ball/de-capping pin out of my lee die, and body sized with that? I don't need to de-prime brass, I use a universal die for that and ultrasonic clean my brass.

[tazman]

The neck on your resized case would be undersized an might be difficult to seat a bullet into. Possibly even crushing the case at the mouth.
I use the lee neck sizing die and every third reload I full length resize as the case as it gets a bit tight to chamber.
Using the neck sizer, I get many more reloads from my cases.

[megasupermagnum]

Why would the neck be undersized if I body sized first, then neck sized? Would the Lee FL die size the neck down too far to then neck size? What about drilling the neck of the die out so the neck is not touched with the die?

[tazman]

The reason there is a sizing button inside the die is so after full length sizing, the button is pulled through the neck, leaving a press fit for the bullet. The neck might be too small for the arbor of the neck sizing die to easily enter the case after full length sizing. This extra pressure could bend the neck slightly causing alignment issues.
Body only sizers do not touch the neck, so drilling the neck section out of the full length sizing die would accomplish that.
The neck size only die would handle the neck sizing with out an issue. Whether or not this process would give you less runout, I can't say. It sounds like too many steps and possibilities to hold everything in line. May work, may not.
I think the best possibility for less runout, since you say the fired cases are straight, is to go with the neck sizing die. The Lee die compresses the neck against an arbor and shouldn't change the alignment.
Concerning the possible accuracy improvement by eliminating runout, since your barrel throat is worn enough you can't seat against the rifling any more, I really don't know how much, if any, all this will help since the bullet will have clearance to get out of line in the throat during firing anyway.
If the throat was still in tolerance enough that you could seat against the lands, I would say this could help.
I don't use and have never needed a Lee factory crimp RIFLE die. I know how they work and this die might be the culprit in your runout issue.
Why is the full length sizing important to you? You didn't mention which rifle you use and if it was a bolt gun or semi-auto. If a bolt gun, there wouldn't be an need for full length sizing unless the ammo is used in more than one rifle or the case is getting difficult to chamber after repeated firing. If it is an semi-auto, I can see the need for full length sizing.

[megasupermagnum]

The gun is a bolt action, an old savage 110L to be exact. As a hunter, I put a value on reliability above a tiny advantage of accuracy. I would not say I am an expert by any stretch, but I have been reloading rifles for about 8 years. I have never been happy with the feeding of neck sized only brass. IMO, that is target shooting only ammo. I guess I kind of answered my own question. I am happy with the accuracy I get, there is no need to be thinking into this too deep. If I ever set back or re barrel this rifle, I may look into this again. Thanks for your input.

[Wayne Smith]

Thank you for that, I was going to point out that you may well be at your rifle's accuracy limit as it is. Why are you crimping for a bolt action? Give it a try without a crimp and see what happens.

[megasupermagnum]

I tried it with and without a crimp, and accuracy was not affected.

[tazman]

Did not using the Lee factory crimp have any effect on the runout?

[megasupermagnum]

That I do not know, I will check. So far my neck run-out after sizing is my problem.