2" & 2 1/2" 12 gauge rounds

[dsh1106]

I just noticed that Hodgdons site has a couple of loads for both 2" and 2 1/2" rounds. My question, are these just normal hulls that have been trimmed shorter? I can't seem to find any other data other than what is show on there site.

I did a search here too but found nothing, if there is already a thread on this subject, please post up a link.

Thanks
Scott

[longbow]

BPI lists some short hull loads in there shotgun manual. You might find some in the BPI Load of the Week archives:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/loadoftheweekarchive.htm

though seemingly little on short hulls. They do have bulletins though:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Brochure-Loading-Shortened-Hulls/productinfo/00BSHORT/

Longbow

[rancher1913]

I have made some by cutting down hulls and roll crimpimg. they work great for pump action but have never tried them in a semiauto.

[ioon44]

I also have made some by cutting down hulls and roll crimping using the BPI data, also made some with a 8 pt crimp but the roll crimp worked better. They worked fine in a Remington 1100 with extended magazine tube.

[dsh1106]

Thanks for the info guys.

I knew the 2 & 2 1/2 were from the "Old Days", I didn't realize there was load data available for the newer components. Yea I'm a newbee to the shotshell world....

Scott

[Calamity Jake]

Thanks for the info guys.

I knew the 2 & 2 1/2 were from the "Old Days", I didn't realize there was load data available for the newer components. Yea I'm a newbee to the shotshell world....

Scott

Some cowboy shooters use the 2 1/2" paper hulls to load there rounds with for cowboy action shooting.
They use less powder and shot and a 97 Winchester pump will hold 6 rounds for there wild
bunch matches.
I do not know where they get the empty hulls.

[longbow]

Just a word of caution... from what I get looking at load data and comparing the BPI short hull info I have with regular 2 3/4" loads I believe that just shortening hulls, removing cushion leg wads and using hard card wads will raise pressures possibly significantly.

My take is that the cushion leg allows initial expansion of gases as the cushion leg crushes where simply shortening the wad column up to make a shorter hull does not allow that so can cause pressure spikes.

A bit of speculation on my part but the point is that you should follow short hull load data, not just concoct your own short shells by shortening and stiffening the wad column.

Little changes can make large differences to performance and pressure in shotshells.

Longbow

[dsh1106]

Just a word of caution... from what I get looking at load data and comparing the BPI short hull info I have with regular 2 3/4" loads I believe that just shortening hulls, removing cushion leg wads and using hard card wads will raise pressures possibly significantly.

My take is that the cushion leg allows initial expansion of gases as the cushion leg crushes where simply shortening the wad column up to make a shorter hull does not allow that so can cause pressure spikes.

A bit of speculation on my part but the point is that you should follow short hull load data, not just concoct your own short shells by shortening and stiffening the wad column.

Little changes can make large differences to performance and pressure in shotshells.

Longbow

Thanks LB,

I'm new to the shotshell loading scene, So I won't be changing any recipes.

Scott

[fecmech]

A bit of speculation on my part but the point is that you should follow short hull load data, not just concoct your own short shells by shortening and stiffening the wad column.
I'm afraid it's just the opposite when using card wads vs one piece plastic wads. The sealing ability of the plastic wads is way superior to nitro card over powder wads. If you can, avail yourself of some of the old shotshell load manuals that listed loadings with card wads. You will see more powder was needed to attain the same velocities as the plastic wads and pressures were generally lower. A lot of gas bypassed those wads due to their poor ability to seal and the patterns showed it.

[webfoot10]

The 2 in shells are for the older shotguns with 2'' chambers. Using 2 1/2 shells in a two in
chamber will cause high pressures, as the last 1/4 in of the shell is opening in the forcing cone
of the chamber. I had a Swedish double with 2" chamber and was shooting the cheap W-mart
2 1/2" loads in it. The pressure from the low base loads was great enough that they popped the
soldered joints holding the rib that held the barrels together. If your not sure, measure your
chamber. Most guns have the chamber length stamped on them, the older ones were not marked
other then the Gauge. I was lucky and didn't hurt my shotgun, and I had it resoldered.

[longbow]

fecmec:

I should have been more specific. I agree that using just card wads is less efficient at sealing having tried it myself. My reference to raising pressure assumed a plastic gas seal and hard card wads rather than a cushion leg. Not only have some cut plastic gas seals off cushion leg wads to use for other loadings but there are also plastic gas seals available for drop in. BPI supplies them and I am sure others as well.

My point is that from what I've seen comparing load data the shorter hulls seem to generate same pressure with less powder or higher pressure with same powder all else being equal. My take is that the reduced volume at ignition (lack of cushion "crush") results in higher pressure much as seating a boolit deeper over same powder charge... reduced volume = higher pressure. Hard to say exactly without pressure testing equipment.

I have had some surprise stiff extraction at times when making what seemed like minor changes to recipes, and tight extraction is an indication of over pressure by quite a bit.

I'd certainly err on the side of caution and having had one shotgun come apart in my hands I tend to be pretty careful these days. I've posted details of that incident a couple of times to warn others. What seemed like minor changes resulted in a blown up shotgun and coincidentally that was a short hull slug load I made up myself using a regular hull recipe.

No disagreement with your comments on card wads being inefficient sealers and another reason to not play with load recipes as someone not in the know could look at those card wad recipes and decide to "duplicate" them with modern hulls and plastic gas seals which would undoubtedly raise pressures dramatically.

Play but play safe.

Longbow

[RMc]

Consider:

Given the same type/brand 12 gauge hull, (for example Cheddite brand), a *2.5" roll crimped cartridge has virtually the same loaded internal volume as a *2.75" cartridge closed with a fold crimp. Indeed, during 1920s British developmental work with a fold or star crimp designs, fold crimp cartridges were assembled with *2.75" hulls, in order to duplicate the interior volume of then standard *2.5" roll crimp cartridges.

Note: *2.5" loaded roll crimp shotgun cartridges may be used in 2.75" chambers, but *2.75" loaded fold crimp cartridges should not be used in 2.5" chambers.

*The stated length of a shotgun cartridge is always based on the length of the empty hull before loading.