paper size and how many wraps?

[Hutzpah]

I'm going to give this PP ago and see if I can get more velocity
out of my 6.5x55 before things go wayward.

Some advice would be much appreciated.
My rifle slugs to 0.268 and I have a lee sizer 0.269

How thick should my paper be and how many wraps around?

I'm hoping to get just over 2000 fps do I need a gas check?

Thanks again

Hutzpah

[pdawg_shooter]

Size your bullets .260 and give them 2 wraps of 16lb. paper. You can lube with almost anything but i use BAC. You will find you can use full power loads with the same accurcy as jacketed if the casting is a good one.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Hey Pdawg, you applying the BAC by hand or running them through a sizer?

[pdawg_shooter]

[QUOTE=GrizzLeeBear;369839]Hey Pdawg, you applying the BAC by hand or running them through a sizer?[
I apply by hand and then run them through a Lee sizer of the correct size to remove the excess. not really necessary but saves fighting the excess when seating the bullet in the case.

[Hutzpah]

Thanks for the feed back pdawg_shooter.

I went and dug out the three slugs I made from the 6.5x55 Howa
The bore measurement is 0.258 and the
grove measurement is 0.268

Now, let me get this right I need a sizing die 0.258?
Then fill the gap of 0.01 with paper?

I just want to get it right before I order from Lee.

Hutzpah

[Hutzpah]

Just logged off then thought about it maybe 0.257 which is
25 caliber that might be more useful?

Thanks again

Hutzpah

[45 2.1]

Just logged off then thought about it maybe 0.257 which is
25 caliber that might be more useful?

Thanks again

Hutzpah


Any of the longer 25 caliber cast boolits can be patched to 6.5mm. You need one which has a body length long enough to reach the rifling. Paper patched boolits need to touch the rifling when chambered to shoot well.

[pdawg_shooter]

Size to bore dia. + .001/.0015 and patch to groove dia. + up to .003. Patched bullets tend to shoot better when into the rifling but its not always necessary. I have a Marlin 1895g that I end the patches at the case mouth so they dont get damaged running through the action. These will cut clover leaf groups at 50 yds and shoot into 1.25 at 100. It is a 430gr over 50gr of H322. You just have to try and see what works well in your rifle.

[Hutzpah]

Thanks for the input pdawg_shooter and 45 2.1.

I feel I'm getting my head around this paper patching now.
I'll order a sizing die from Lee as soon as I can just a pain
having to wait a few weeks till it gets here.

Hutzpah
:drinks:

[yondering]

I'm also new to paper patching and was wondering, can a bore diameter boolit be wrapped with paper, then passed through a Lee sizer to swage it down? This would be for a 30-06; it seems like using the next smaller size (7mm) would be too small. I already have a 190gr Lee mold, that casts at .309, and considering paper patching some ww boolits and sizing back down to .309 again. Will this work?

[pdawg_shooter]

yondering,
You are right in that a 7mm is too small. All of my 30cals start out at .309 to .311. I size them down in a Lee push through die lapped out to .3015 and then patch. If you size a patched .311 down in a .309 die the paper may be loose. If you want to try this use the thinnest paper you can find and it may work. Dress patterns from wally world might be thin enough to work.

[yondering]

yondering,
You are right in that a 7mm is too small. All of my 30cals start out at .309 to .311. I size them down in a Lee push through die lapped out to .3015 and then patch. If you size a patched .311 down in a .309 die the paper may be loose. If you want to try this use the thinnest paper you can find and it may work. Dress patterns from wally world might be thin enough to work.

Thanks pdawg, that helps.

[pdawg_shooter]

Any time, guy. If I can help in any way you can e-mail me pdawg.shooter@gmail.com

[docone31]

I size mine, .308, then wrap with two turns of Meade Tracing Paper. From there I size .311.
So far, so good.
No gas check.
I have yet to really experiment. I went to the range and went waaay down to the last station to test the loads.
I am not sighted in, but, pressure signs are nominal. That was what was important to me.
Starting charge is the lowest in the Lee paper that comes with the dies. I use the C312-185C mold. It is for the .303 British. Without a gas check, it sizes easily. With a gas check, it develops ears and tears the patch.
Having done paper patching for the .30 cal, I reccomend, getting a mold that will size down to pre patching size.
I like the Lee mold. When it is sized down, It is nearly without lube grooves. Slight ones at best. It fills the bore well.
I do not lube my patched loads. When I get hunting loads done up, I might dip in lube for castings I have made. I would do this just to seal out the case.
I will tell you what, the bore is shiney after shooting paper patches. Clean up is a snap.
I will tell you what. I got a lot of very informed decent help with patching on this site. Literally, they made it possible for me.
I like sizing to .308, then wrapping to .3135 and sizing down to .311. My .30s like that one. My Springfield in particular. Lighter recoil. A sweet shooter.

[Black Wolf]

A complete newbie to PP - so bear with me if I seem totally ignorant on this - because I am.

So this is what I'm working on (very rudimentary process at this point).

I have an Enfield w/ a groove of .313 and I'm trying to get a PP bullet at .314. So, I took my .30 cal WW bullets that I sized to .309~.310 and double wrapped it in onion skin paper of .0015. So, after wrapping twice my diameter, prior to sizing, was roughly .316 - then I lubed it with LLA and ran it through a .314 sizing die.

I found my Enfield shoots best with .314 dia bullets and that's what I was trying to get to.

My only problem is that the paper doesn't shrink very tight (probably because no cotton in the onion paper). so that's why i put a little LLA on it to help hold it together.

Anyone see any problems or issues that I'm missing as far as my procedure goes?

[Hardcast416taylor]

I would say if it works stay with it! My other suggestion would be to try other types of paper that contain cotton fibers. I use oridnary printer paper for my Enfield boolit wrappers. :castmine: Robert....

[yeahbub]

Black Wolf, I PP for a mosin with a .314 groove dia and I start by sizing the boolit to .309, wrap it with two turns of 100% rag drafting vellum (.0025) for a patched dia of .318. A dab of smeary-soft lube and a trip through the sizer bring it to the needed finished diameter to wedge it in the throat on closing the bolt, which seems to get better results than not seating them out far enough. What boolit are you casting?

The reason I use 100% cotton drafting vellum is that it's a tough paper that stands up to a good bit of abuse without tearing. I don't need to be so concerned about being clumsy and forceful when the paper is wet. When the patch strips are cut from the narrow end of the sheet, they'll have plenty of stretch when you roll them on and they'll shrink tight when they dry. Drafting vellum can be gotten from art and drafting supply places.

The use of LLA is a common practice of mine and not only increases accuracy, but also seals the boolit in the case and protects the paper from inclement weather.

[Black Wolf]

What boolit are you casting?



I'm using the LEE 312-155-2R. This is an update to my efforts:

After sizing the bullet to .309", I wrapped the 312-155-2R bullets with some tracing paper that measured .002" thick, and it measured .315 after drying (twice wrapped). I lubed them and pushed them thru my .314 sizing die for my Enfield without tearing the patch. My Enfield is .312 ~ .313. The best thing is that I found a working combination of sizing and paper to get to the diameter I was looking for.

I also picked up some .001" craft tissue paper (the stuff women stuff in gift bags - well at least my wife does) and wrapped it twice around my .009 bullet and got .312 after drying. Those are too small for my Enfield.

I have yet to test them in my rifle. Right now they've got gas checks on them because I already had them "gas checked" and was pretty much just experimenting and getting myself used to wrapping, paper, technique, lubes, sizing and all that. Next ones I'll use plain based 312-155-2R's and get the real results.

If these things work I'll be patching for my M95 Austria-Hungarian Steyr that has a bore of .333". That is...if someone would get the LEE reloading dies in stock. Midway, Midsouth and Lee Precision all have the dies on back order.
(sorry for a long post)

[yeahbub]

Hutzpah,

Casting diameter and the thickness of the paper you prefer will determine the number of wraps to use. I commonly patch .30 cal boolits up to .325 for use in an 8x57mm and they work very nicely. If the casting is .315, two wraps of drafting vellum (.0025) bring them up to .324. A layer of teflon tape and sizing to .325 make them perfect for the throat in my rifle. If the casting is .310-.311, three wraps will bring them up to the right dia. There will be some finished dia. I need, so I patch for at least that number if not a bit more. I can always size them to correct whatever extra may be there. Since you're patching for the 6.5 Swede, you might look through molds for the .25-06, as these will cast .257-260 and be just the ticket for the Swede.

Black Wolf,

I use the Lee 312-160-2R and find it to be a good bet for patching. I usually use gas checks on them but haven't yet made a decent comparison between checked and unchecked to determine whether unchecked will work well enough at full velocity. I have noticed that the check will cut through the patch when sized, so now I patch from half-way up the ogive to just forward of the check which leaves the check at full diameter. Since there's no tail to hold the patch in place, I thin down wood glue 1:1 with water and stroke 1/8" of the end of the patch with just enough to get it to stick to itself. I wasn't careful at first and I got too much on a few of them - the accuracy was terrible.

How is that .001 craft tissue paper to handle when wet? I tried some .0015 airmail/tracing paper a while back and it was so delicate I tore almost all of them. It seemed pretty delicate when dry as well and I had a number of failures when sizing. The drafting vellum I use will survive sizing a patched full-diameter casting down to finished dia., about .010 reduction, so I tend to stick with that. I wish I could find some 100% cotton .001 tracing paper as it wouldn't require such drastic sizing operations.

[Black Wolf]

How is that .001 craft tissue paper to handle when wet?

It seemed to handle fine - it's not like handling wet toilet paper. I only did a few to determine what the final diameter was, which was too small for my purpose, and moved to a thicker paper.

BTW - I got some now patched without gas checks. I'm waiting for a day that it's not raining to test them out. I'm getting tired of the wet days and muddy ground.

[pdawg_shooter]

I have stopped using GCs under paper. Kind of like wearing socks over your shoes. If the paper doesent protect the bullet the check underneath it wont do much for you.

[303Guy]

I'm finding this very interesting! I'm still in early days and haven't actually range test any patched bullets but I have been shooting them into my 'firing tube' in my shed.

I tried cigarette paper for it's thinness but is it soft when wet! I am still using my hot wax lube for sealing and holding the bullet. I don't have the appropriate sizers and my bullets are a little large from the original 'large cast' concept for my Lee Enfield. The recovered bullets show no base deformation from pressure and there is no flame cutting so things look encouraging. My patched bullets are currently so large that they will chamber tight but won't come out again. The 'dough-nut' at the neck shoulder junction stops them from being pushed back into the case.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-776F.jpg

My job evapourated so I don't have the opportunity to make any more moulds and dies.

[docone31]

I have found, lined notebook paper is great stuff.
I presize my castings to eliminate extra stress on the casting, and sizeing die.
Cigarette paper does seem to be working for you, but it looks like a lot of work.
I found, as long as I do the same number of wraps, internal diameter is not tremendously important. I size both my .30s, and .303 British, prime casting to .308. With two wraps of notebook paper, or equivalent, I can size to .314, or .309 easily depending on the caliber. Paper being non-compressable I do suspect the lead is being sized along with the paper.