45ACP cartridge/case issue ?

[JBinMN]

Or...maybe better titled..."Firearm issue?"

I recently purchased a NIB 45ACP Govt. 1911. I ran 50 Factory rounds through it, then 50 each of cast TL452 -2R & TL452 - TC, lubed with 45/45/10.

After returning home I washed the brass in citrus mix & then dried. I was examining the cases & found that almost every one had a "ding" in the case, but for some reason not always in the exact same place. Close, but not exact.

I examined the firearm also & basically could only come up with the rounds are being "dinged" as they pass into the chamber & perhaps are being "pinched" at the intersection of the feed ramp & the chamber entrance. Meaning that perhaps the noses of the bullets are hitting the top of the chamber while the side of the case where the ding occurs may be hitting the ramp/chamber intersection & then the bolt is pushing the round into battery. Firing & ejecting the "dinged" cases.

I may be totally wrong & that is why I am asking about it here. I have not run into an issue like this before...

"If" this is happening before firing as I suggest, then would not the pressure of the gasses upon ignition "iron out" the dings of the case in the chamber before the extraction & ejection process starts? If that is the case & the dings are not completely "ironed" out, then the "dings" are perhaps even larger as the round goes into battery & I am just seeing the results of the expansion after firing?

Could the cases be being dinged when extracted & ejected?

I am going to add here that I deprimed/resized all of the dinged brass & the dings are definitively reduced back into the case side, but not completely gone. I might also add that the dings are felt by a fingernail & a "pick', on the outside, but not much other than a little dent with no scarring on the inside.

I am at a loss to understand this issue for certain & am asking the experienced folks here to please help me ID the issue & also help me with finding a solution to eliminating it. It has me concerned & also certainly makes saving the damaged brass for reloading a concern.

Here are some pictures that I hope will show the dings & their different locations. I added in two "dummy" rounds to show bullet depth of the cast cartridges. I do not know how to show the dings very well, but I took one pic indoors on a napkin hoping to highlight the dings that was & the other pic was outside for the same reason. I can take more pics & maybe even highlight the dings with a magic marker pen or something if that is necessary...
I can also go get more of the Factory rounds if necessary, to take a pic of them before firing if anyone needs that for some reason...

198064198065


Thanks if you can help.

P-S. - the cast rounds are loaded to the OAL (=/- 1 Thous.) listed in the Lyman CBHandbook & another source(IIRC), so they should not be too long.

[JBinMN]

I took a red sharpie pen & highlighted the dings with that. I also added some arrows on the dummy rounds for those who might need them for reference. (There is one less than in the other pics because it fell off the deck into a Hasta plant.) Maybe this will help to see the dents/dings...
198067

BTW, they are not all at the base of the boolits. Just nearby. Some are a little higher & some a little lower..

[pjames32]

Puzzling! I'm guessing they are hitting the slide on ejecting. Do you get any marks if you load and eject a mag full without firing? Maybe mark up a couple cases with red marker in the area they are dinged and fire them to see if it leaves a red mark where they are hitting.

[Outpost75]

If you closely inspect the edges of the ejection port on your slide, with a magnifying glass, you will probably see brass "wash."

On a blued gun this is readily apparent, less so on stainless.

[TexasGrunt]

Which EXACT 1911 did you purchase? Is the ejection port lowered and flared? In a Government 1911 or replica it shouldn't be.

Even with a lowered and flared ejection port brass will still hit the port at times. With a bog standard GI issue or replica it will hit it EVERY time.

[CHeatermk3]

+1 TGrunt

[Plate plinker]

Well I doubt that you are getting dings when the round chambers. The easy check would be to load two rounds and fire round #1 then carefully eject round #2 and inspect that round. Betting there is no ding yet. After that you probably could tune the extractor and ejector.

[sawinredneck]

First problem I think of is the gun isn't even broken in at 50rds, I'd suggest some cheap factory ball ammo and run a couple hundred rounds through it.
The dings, welcome to owning a stock 1911! The ejection port needs lowered and flaired to eliminate it all, but I think getting it broke in more will help.

[funnyjim014]

As they are in the middle of the case I would bet the case is making contact with the slide as is flips during ejection. Like Said Before It Takes ALOT of factory blasting ammo to break one in. My PT1911 took a full 300rds before it was loose enough to cycle cast reliably. As far as the brass, reload as normal, next firing will iron it out then promptly make a new one lol

[JBinMN]

Puzzling! I'm guessing they are hitting the slide on ejecting. Do you get any marks if you load and eject a mag full without firing? Maybe mark up a couple cases with red marker in the area they are dinged and fire them to see if it leaves a red mark where they are hitting.

I will try that along with some of the other suggestions. Good idea! Thanks for your help!
:)

[JBinMN]

If you closely inspect the edges of the ejection port on your slide, with a magnifying glass, you will probably see brass "wash."

On a blued gun this is readily apparent, less so on stainless.

I should have done that before I broke it down & went through it. I will try to check on it again the next time I run some rounds through it, to see what I get.
Thanks for your help! :)

[JBinMN]

Which EXACT 1911 did you purchase? Is the ejection port lowered and flared? In a Government 1911 or replica it shouldn't be.

Even with a lowered and flared ejection port brass will still hit the port at times. With a bog standard GI issue or replica it will hit it EVERY time.


+1 TGrunt

I did not mention the maker for a reason, as I did not want the topic to drift in regard to the Maker, and possible distractions as to that, but rather the address problem & it's solution(s). It is a Taurus PT1911, and I am quite happy with its' performance right out of the box.( I could not afford to buy anything more expensive & at around $450.00 NIB + tax, I thought it was in my budget to shoot, until I have enough for another one.)

Only a slight adjustment to the sights to the right & it is dead on at 25 yards sandbagged. Found that out within 15-25 shots or so. After that... Smaller than a babyfood jar lid(soda/beer can end) groups (& I was hot & sweating at the time from the weather.)
It was the dinged up cases that was irritating me, as well you all know... I don't want to ruin brass when I reload & cast. So, I tried to avoid the firearm maker to describe the situation & focus on the problem/issue at hand.
;)

Thanks for your suggestions & help & I will be waiting to see if you can help out further to help me alleviate this issue.
:)

[JBinMN]

Well I doubt that you are getting dings when the round chambers. The easy check would be to load two rounds and fire round #1 then carefully eject round #2 and inspect that round. Betting there is no ding yet. After that you probably could tune the extractor and ejector.

I will also do this when I fire tomorrow. I have a few others to work with, but this issue is perplexing & since I have asked, I want to get everyones advice into play to figure this out & get the issue solved.
:)

Thanks for your suggestions & I will be trying it out also.
:)

[JBinMN]

First problem I think of is the gun isn't even broken in at 50rds, I'd suggest some cheap factory ball ammo and run a couple hundred rounds through it.
The dings, welcome to owning a stock 1911! The ejection port needs lowered and flaired to eliminate it all, but I think getting it broke in more will help.

I plan to do more on "breaking it in", but I did not want to ruin 300+ cases to do so. I just reloaded 100+ more cases since I posted & plan to shoot them to see if the problem is gonna go away, or I have other things to do. ALso check on the folks advice I have rec'd so far.
;)

Thanks for your help!
:)

[JBinMN]

As they are in the middle of the case I would bet the case is making contact with the slide as is flips during ejection. Like Said Before It Takes ALOT of factory blasting ammo to break one in. My PT1911 took a full 300rds before it was loose enough to cycle cast reliably. As far as the brass, reload as normal, next firing will iron it out then promptly make a new one lol

Thanks for your reply!
:)

There is no issue with the cast, nor the Factory rounds with function as far as loading, firing & extraction/ejection, "IF" I did not want to save brass. ( And I certainly do. ;) ) since it is the brass with "dings" that is causing me the grief.
:)
& no leading with the cast/& 45/45/10 I used. It is the "Ding"(s) n the brass that concern me. I do not want to own a firearm that I cannot reload & save the brass to be fired more than one time. IF that was the case, I would either sell the thing or something. I will not buy Alum. cases just to satisfy the urge to shoot. I will sell it & go get another.
;)

Thanks for your suggestions & I will keep in mind as I try to work thru this issue.
:)

[JBinMN]

I really want to thank everyone so far, for being so helpful & polite!
:drinks:

It is refreshing to have such a great group of folks so willing to help out someone when they are puzzled, frustrated & feeling a pinch.

Ya'll deserve a big thanks!

I hope to see this to the end soon. Tomorrow will tell me more, as if it is not raining hard, I will be shooting this firearm again & see what I can figure out with the suggestions provided. I like this 45 & hope to keep it once I can get the issue/situation taken care of...
:)

P.S - I wan't sure how to answer each of ya in one post for sure, so I just spread them out. I hope everyone can understand.
:)


Thanks again!
:)

[Tom W.]

I had the same problem with the RIA I bought. It had such deep dings in the brass that I was hesitant to reload the brass. A very accurate pistol right out of the box, but I did not like the mangled brass. I sent it back twice, the first time they replaced all the springs and barrel. When I got it o of the box and racked the slide the hammer fell to half cock. It went back the same day, amdand they detail stripped and accurizred it. Had more trouble trying to drop the slide using the slide release. Never fired it again, just traded it off for a Colt Police Positive at the pawn shop.

[35remington]

I note that the Taurus already appears to have a lowered and flared ejection port from the factory.

[pjames32]

JB you have had some good suggestions. Most of us have dealt with 1911 issues and I think we are all curious with what you find. Please let us know!
I would not be concerned to reload the dinged cases if they size without folding the lip, unless you are pushing pressures. They should iron out on the next firing.
I had a 1911 that would put the empties on the center of my forehead, every shot. Ended up with some judicious stoning on the ejector to fix that one. Gotta love our 1911's.
Good luck!

[sawinredneck]

The above post! The timing could just be a hair off because it's still so tight. I wouldn't be afraid to reload that brass and just run the piss out of it for a while! Maybe, big maybe, polish the feed ramp a bit. I'm hesitant to suggest this as it's functioning good, but there's the slightest possibility, very unlikely, that the cases may be catching the feed ramp as the round comes free from the mag. But this is very rare!
I had an S&W 9mm with 3" barrel, I forget the model, late 80's, that right after the case hit me in the forehead, the front sight hit me in the forehead! Stupid snappy and hard to hold on, I hated that gun!
It got stolen, I spent the next few months looking at everyone's forehead trying to figure out who stole it.

[Plate plinker]

^^^^ejector work and extractor work may solve the problem. look into these things.

[AR15-SBR]

That looks ALOT like my carry ammo(Federal 230 HST) that gets loaded and unloaded from my carry 1911. I think it is from the bottom of the chamber/top of the feed ramp as the cartridge is entering the chamber.

I cast and load that same Lee 230 TC boolit, but mine are seated a little deeper(have to for my HK45) than the one you show and haven't noticed any marks.

My guess is your ammo is just short of creating a 3 point jam and that is what is creating the mark. You might try seating the Lee boolit a smidge deeper and see if that mark goes away.

Edit. I just took a closer look at the photos and your boolit depth looks to be similar as mine.
But, I still think it it the bottom of the chamer making those marks.


AR15-SBR

[35remington]

A three point jam creates a much different looking "smiley" mark just below the mouth of the case. This looks much different. FWIW.

[w5pv]

I had a M1A1 Colt that did the same on the dings but my Ruger 45 ACP doesn't show any dings,I think the dings were made when ejecting the spent brass.

[Moleman-]

I've had a few 1911's and they all left that dent from the slide in the case depending on the load. It will disappear upon firing the next time, but a new one will appear when the case gets ejected. So at least you only ever end up with one dent unless they get stepped on.

[Soundguy]

I had the same problem with the RIA I bought. It had such deep dings in the brass that I was hesitant to reload the brass. A very accurate pistol right out of the box, but I did not like the mangled brass. I sent it back twice, the first time they replaced all the springs and barrel. When I got it o of the box and racked the slide the hammer fell to half cock. It went back the same day, amdand they detail stripped and accurizred it. Had more trouble trying to drop the slide using the slide release. Never fired it again, just traded it off for a Colt Police Positive at the pawn shop.

How long ago did you have that Rock? I have one that is about a year old and it's out of the box dead on.. don't eat brass or anything.

[TexasGrunt]

The Taurus has a lowered and flared port. If it's blued you'll see brass marks on the slide behind the ejection port. This is part and parcel with a 1911.

Check your extractor tension. You can also carefully shape the nose of the ejector. But I have to say it's not possible to completely eliminate this behavior.

[JBinMN]

ETA:

You posted before I was done with my post below TexasGrunt, so I am editing to add here:

The Taurus has a lowered and flared port. If it's blued you'll see brass marks on the slide behind the ejection port. This is part and parcel with a 1911.

Check your extractor tension. You can also carefully shape the nose of the ejector. But I have to say it's not possible to completely eliminate this behavior.

It is a Blued one.
:)

I do not know how to check "extractor tension", but I will research to find out if I can. Also, if necessary I can try to do as you suggest with the "ejector nose", but I will wait until I fire it again tomorrow before going much further.
Thanks very much for your help!
:)

--------------------------
Thanks again for the advice & suggestions!
:)

I was going to go out & shoot it again today but it is a "wash" due to the rain coming through. I will try tomorrow.
:)

Just a bit of background for any who might think it would be important info.

The first 50 rounds as I said were Factory ones. The cast ones were as I said in the OP. both 230gr. bullets with 50 each of 2R(RN) & TC, at .452 . What I did not mention was the charges...

They were a series of 10 rounds each boolit using Alliant Red Dot, ladder stepping from 4.6 gr. to 5.0 gr. a tenth of a gr. at a time. So, I started & shot each series of 10 for each boolit type. {10 each type at 4.6/4.7/4.8/4.9/5.0 grns.}.

4.7gr. demonstrated the best accuracy for this pistol at this time(still "new"). The rounds I have loaded for it now, to see about this "dinging/denting" are all at 4.7gr..

I decided to check the powder using the ladder steps right away since I wanted to try out the Red Dot & since I was going to be shooting to "break in", rather than just willy nilly plinking/shooting. I felt I would be doing myself a service to utilize the shooting for a good purpose, rather than just shooting for shets & giggles using only factory round which would not give me any info regarding how this pistol would be with cast boolits. Some would call it a type of, "killing 2 birds with one stone", so I was gathering info at the same time as the "break in".

As I had not ever experienced this type of thing with the other semi autos I have fired, it was a surprise to see the dinged/dented cases.

So, that is all the info I think I can provide for now, unless someone asks for something in particular I can help with.

In the OP I had already considered the possible "3 point" issue with feeding and was having a hard time comprehending how the dent would be so pronounced after the pressure build up from firing & expansion in the chamber, so I am now, with you folks help/suggestions, considering that the case is getting the dings as it is extracted & ejected. Something like was mentioned a few times in this topic... that perhaps the slide is being hit by the ejecting cases as they leave the pistol. ( I am going to go down & hand eject some dummy rounds later & I will make up to see if I can ID that sort of thing before I fire the rounds through it tomorrow, but I do not expect much as the effort I make by hand will most likley not have the same force as the ejection with the result of the firing of rounds.

Anyway, once again...Thanks! & hopefully it is something that can be easily dealt with through "break in" or something else simply done to fix the issue.
:)

[tazman]

If the dented cases don,t cause a problem with reloading or shooting, I wouldn't give it any worry.

[Char-Gar]

Quite frankly, I don't know what caused your problem and I don't want to speculate sending you on a wild goose chase. The nature of the dents look like the rounds are hitting a sharp edge somewhere in the loading/ejection cycle.

The case dents that result from shooting old 1911, 1911A1 and commercial versions of those pistols will dent the case mouth every time. I said case mouth and not case bodies. Folks started to lower the ejection port to avoid this, but I never could understand why. The case mouth dents come out when they cases are sized. Reloading these cases require no more attention than those fired in a pistol with a lowered ejection port. Pistol reliability is the same whether or not the ejection port is lowered.

[Tom W.]

How long ago did you have that Rock? I have one that is about a year old and it's out of the box dead on.. don't eat brass or anything.
I believe it was about a year or so ago if that long. I'll admit that it didn't rattle like my Colt GM and was the most accurate .45 that I have ever shot or owned. The gouge in the brass concerned me. If I didn't handload I probably wouldn't have cared. I just couldn't trust the pistol to go bang every time. And I didn't like the ambidextrous safety. My Glock 19 goes bang every time. Can't be comfortable with something you can't trust.

[Soundguy]

Wow, mine operates flawlessly.. Once I threw away the *** magazine it ships with and slapped a GI mag in it.

No brass dents, etc. Which I'm glad for, since I reload.

[tazman]

I believe it was about a year or so ago if that long. I'll admit that it didn't rattle like my Colt GM and was the most accurate .45 that I have ever shot or owned. The gouge in the brass concerned me. If I didn't handload I probably wouldn't have cared. I just couldn't trust the pistol to go bang every time. And I didn't like the ambidextrous safety. My Glock 19 goes bang every time. Can't be comfortable with something you can't trust.

I agree with that sentence completely. I have sold several firearms and a couple of cars/trucks over the years for that very reason.
My other rule is "life is too short to shoot inaccurate guns"

[JBinMN]

If the dented cases don,t cause a problem with reloading or shooting, I wouldn't give it any worry.

They DO cause a problem with reloading/shooting. As they compromise the case integrity.

I do not know how anyone else decides when a case is possibly "compromised", and may cause a concern down the road, or even at the next reloading "cycle", but I do know that when I have a ding/dent that deforms the casing enough that I can not only see it, but feel it on the side, much like the old school cannelures that 38/357 WC brass used to have... NOt knowing where those dings/dents came from...

"I" have concerns..

I may not be a old school feller with casting, but I have been reloading since the mid 1970's in shotgun & early/mid 80's pistol , & if there is an issue with one of the top components of the round...such as a case(pistol/rifle) or a hull(shotgun)...
"I" am gonna check the thing out before "I" reload it..

I am gonna try to make sure that I am doing at least 2 things...
#1... Making sure it is a safe load, by checking & verifying ALL of the components I am using to reload,
& #2, Making sure no one else makes the mistake of using something that may be "compromised" as far as components, on "their" load..

( to include "stepping on" casings or trashing them so that they are not picked up for reloading...)

Anything less... "TO ME", is not being responsible.

Take it as ya like, but I am not just gonna keep reloading cartridges that have dings/dents in them without trying to find out why they got there & fix that issue... Nor let others do the same if I can help it...

I wouldn't let a Boy Scout walk around with a hole in his boot on a Appalachian Trail hike for 10-15 miles before I said something about how to fix the issue.... Didn't do it in the Corps. either...

Would YOU?

[JBinMN]

As far as you fellers with the Rock Island firearms..

Nice ya have what ya got, & got rid of what ya didn't like...

Any of you have any thing constructive to add to the subject of the OP?

If not..

Start your own topic please.. This one is "Occupied".

[tazman]

If it bothers you, definitely find and fix the issue.
Personally, I think you are going a bit overboard on the dent issue.
I have fired hundreds of cases, both rifle and pistol, that had small dents(not cuts) in the sides. Due to the pressures inside the case upon firing, those dents are removed before the case gets ejected from the firearm.
It might make a difference to a top match grade shooter but not to me as I am not that good yet. I have never had a case failure or any inaccuracies that could be blamed on that tiny dent in the case.
I repeat--If it bothers you, definitely find and fix the issue.

[JBinMN]

If it bothers you, definitely find and fix the issue.
Personally, I think you are going a bit overboard on the dent issue.
I have fired hundreds of cases, both rifle and pistol, that had small dents(not cuts) in the sides. Due to the pressures inside the case upon firing, those dents are removed before the case gets ejected from the firearm.
It might make a difference to a top match grade shooter but not to me as I am not that good yet. I have never had a case failure or any inaccuracies that could be blamed on that tiny dent in the case.
I repeat--If it bothers you, definitely find and fix the issue.

Thanks for your help.

That was the point of the topic.. Find the issue & fix it. Maybe help out someone else who had the issue so they can learn from what others with the experience to ID the trouble & help to fix it.

I appreciate everything you have offered to help ID & fix the issue. Thanks.

[Texas by God]

The point of the flared port is hitting the brass on the way out. As long as it's reliable I wouldn't worry. As long as it's not split, harelipped, or stepped on or bulged from hot loads; .45ACP brass lasts until you lose it. Enjoy that Taurus- my nephew has one and it is a fine pistol with all the bells&whistles we added to our Colts to make them work BITD.
Best, Thomas.

[Texas by God]

JB in MN- I have three .45 autos- a custom Ballester-Molina with lowered&flared port.
A Franken45 with a Colt 1911 slide.
A Ruger P97.
They ALL leave some kind of mark on the fired brass; they ALL are accurate & reliable. I use the same brass in all three guns with no problems.

[CHeatermk3]

I believe that the reason to lower and fair back the ejection port is to facilitate the ejection of a live round. Once the spent case is clear of the weapon it is of no concern to the shooter...the reloader will run said empty thru his resizing die and the slight dent will be of no consequence--I have some cases that have been recycled so many times that the headstamps are no longer discernable--they still function flawlessly for plinking and practice as well as the occasional plate match.

For SD carry a person would be well advised to purchase factory ammo...if you are forced to shoot in SD your attorney will have it lots easier.

[reddog81]

If the dented cases don,t cause a problem with reloading or shooting, I wouldn't give it any worry.

This^^^. If there's no problem, other than a slight defect in the relatively thick wall of a low pressure case I don't see any reason worry about it.

I've reloaded cases that look considerably worse just to see what happens. I was almost disappointed when I was able to load the rounds a dozen plus time with no ill effects - it was rather boring test.

[Soundguy]

As far as you fellers with the Rock Island firearms..

Nice ya have what ya got, & got rid of what ya didn't like...

Any of you have any thing constructive to add to the subject of the OP?

If not..

Start your own topic please.. This one is "Occupied".

It seems blatently obvious that reporting if a gun is printing or not IS contributing to this thread.

As for the old cannelured 38/357, I have and still use plenty of it.

I have nickled brass that has worn to straight brass its so old.

As long as the wall is not scratched or gouged, but merely print/dented, I've never had an issue in decades of shooting reloads.

[JBinMN]

It seems blatently obvious that reporting if a gun is printing or not IS contributing to this thread.

As for the old cannelured 38/357, I have and still use plenty of it.

I have nickled brass that has worn to straight brass its so old.

As long as the wall is not scratched or gouged, but merely print/dented, I've never had an issue in decades of shooting reloads.

When I said "dinged/dented" I mean it let a deep enough "Scratch" with the ding/dent that it definitely can be felt after sizing. With just a fingernail. It is less apparent visually, but certainly has had an effect of the integrity of the case.

Thus the OP in the first place.

Your remark to the feller with the RIA 45 , that is similar to yours & his had a similar issue, and yours did not 2x, with nothing to add but just your description of how well YOUR RIA 45 works. Did not add one thing to help out with the issue of this subject/topic.

His post was relevant & it concerned him enough that he actually sent it to the Manf. to have it worked on. 2x, IIRC. Then he got rid of the pistol...

Your reply that you don't have any issue with yours, did not help anyone except maybe to make ya feel better...( And I am figuring many do not have the issue that own RIA or any other 1911 45.). I am betting that there are a lot of folks who do not have this issue with their Taurus PT1911 45 either. Thus , since they cannot help, they seemed to have shown the self discipline to not come here & tell us that theirs does not have such an issue...

Just like him... "I" feel the same way he did about his concerns with HIS pistol & those cases he mentioned , so I posted the topic to ask here.

Here is HIS quote & I Bolded/underline his most relevant comment in his reply to yours:


I believe it was about a year or so ago if that long. I'll admit that it didn't rattle like my Colt GM and was the most accurate .45 that I have ever shot or owned. The gouge in the brass concerned me.If I didn't handload I probably wouldn't have cared. I just couldn't trust the pistol to go bang every time. And I didn't like the ambidextrous safety. My Glock 19 goes bang every time. Can't be comfortable with something you can't trust.

The concerns I have are that this issue "could" compromise not only the ability to safely reload these rounds, but the concern that I have a pistol that is marring these rounds so I can cannot reload the cases used in it safely. Like TOM W., If I cannot reload the rounds used, I will get rid of the pistol like he did.

I am one of those folks who prefers that folks actually discuss the subject of the topic presented. IF they want to discuss how good of a deal they got, or how great their firearm is, they can go start a topic about THAT subject. I asked for assistance & relevant posts to help. Simple as that.


Seems pretty simple to me, anyway.

I remember a couple of weeks back when YOU got upset about another member giving ya the same treatment you are giving me now about this & how you threatened to not share your ballistic test. Perhaps you might remember that I was one of them who was urging ya to please share, regardless of the one who seemed to cause you issue...

Maybe some reflection on that episode & this one is a good idea.

Thanks for Your help & have a great weekend.

[JBinMN]

I do appreciate the help I have rec'd form most of you folks. It is an asset to be able to come here & ask for help & see the quick responses to another member in need.

Please do not judge me too harshly for some of my replies.

This issue concerns me & I spent some hard earned $$ to buy a pistol that I could have had NO troubles with & unfortunately did not.

I am one who will give the shirt off my back to try to help those in need & I reckon that when folks seem to think I am just crying about nothing & "pooh pooh" the issue I brought up irks me a bit.

I thought long & hard about this issue before I posted here about it & researched trying to find a solution.

So, between all of these things I may seem a bit "touchy", but I really am having an issue that will make me decide to keep or not keep this firearm.. I consider that troublesome since I buy weapons to last & pass on to my sons & grandboys, not pass them a hassle...

Please consider that & if it was one of YOUR weapons & YOUR brass that was doing this what would ya do, before ya get to thinking it is just a "Nothing to worry about" deal.

Thanks again folks.
Have a great weekend!

[Soundguy]

I stopped reading your condescending opinioned post about half way.

Anyone exercising high school level reading comprehension skills should be able to pick out that if you are comparing multiple items of the same model, one exhibiting a symptom, others not, then that speaks toward a design issue vs an isolated mechanical problem. Obviously the more data points, the better the analysis and drawn conclusions will be.

Lastly, unless your the hall monitor concerning post opinions... I'm not sure why you are berating my posts as useless and non contributing, when your complaint posts certainly fit that category you are denouncing...

I'm not sure how tho in any way relates yo the ballistic gel post.

I wasn't hounding people in that thread to by ultra orthodox topics and not mention anything other than 100% topical info.

So no.. Reflection doesn't help, its not a comparable situation.

However, multiple posts in this thread about who should or shouldn't be posting, I agree, are useless and wasting bandwidth.

You can keep telling who should or shouldn't post, and decide what posts have merit or not. However ill abstain from being part of that in respect for the thread.

Thanks, have a great day.

[sawinredneck]

Off topic, but the OP should be happy with the minimal brass damage! Try shooting an AR-10 or PTR in .308 and then reload it! That's some ugly brass!
As I recall, even my tuned Delta Elite still folds an edge on the lip with nickle cases, not brass, it just doesn't like nickle! But they clean up and reload just fine.

[str8wal]

You can keep telling who should or shouldn't post, and decide what posts have merit or not. However ill abstain from being part of that in respect for the thread.


What he said ^^^

I had a thought as to the cause but I will just keep it to myself....

[JBinMN]

What he said ^^^

I had a thought as to the cause but I will just keep it to myself....

Once n a while, I run into folks like this. "I think I know the answer, but I am not gonna tell ya because of..... "

You can imagine what I think of responses like that. Thanks for your help, anyway...

-------------------------------

Why is it so hard for folks to just stick with posting to a topic about the subject of the topic?
How can it help anyone if you post that you don't have any issues with "your" whatever, when someone else is having an issue with theirs?

Just recently I read a topic about someone using 45/45/10 lube & they are wondering if it gets hard after not being used for a time & can they just heat it up & use it or mix some mineral spirits into it & try that...

Now, someone who uses 45/45/10 could come in and answer to help them out from experience, or some others can come in & say they use Bens lube, or White Label lube or what ever. Or , even tell them they should ditch the 45/45/10 & go to PC, or use a lubrisizer.

Which answers are the most helpful to the question of what to do with his issue with the 45/45/10?

To me, it is the ones who stick to the subject of the topic & answer the guys question, not the ones who say how good the stuff they use is for them.

The reason why I think that way is because I do a lot of reading here, & sometimes I have to wade thru a bunch of posts that do not have anything to do with the subject of the topic because folks decide to swing off into tangents (side track/"high jack") on things not well related to the OP & it makes it hard to follow the topic.

So, when I see it might start to happen in a topic I posted, I say something to try to keep the info pertinent to the subject rather than getting off into one of those tangents, to help out anyone else who might have the issue & is trying to get answers themselves.... & now I am getting BS for it with post like this last one.

With the help from Most of the folks who posted here, I think I have got it narrowed down & will be finding out this afternoon what the issue is caused by.

Then I have to make the decision to post it here to help out the possible person who may run across the same issue & they are looking to find an answer here for themselves...

Or.....

I can just shut the hell up & not say anymore here in this topic about what I find out, & that will help no one, but me, and it will leave room for someone else to come in here & beech about my trying to keep the topic clear of extraneous crapola that isn't relevant.

I don't give a hoot about those who don't like the fact I am pointing out their rudeness. What I do care about is thanking those who helped ID & solve the issue. And this possibly helps out someone else who runs into the issue.

With that, other than the possible return here with what I found out, I have no need to post anything more in this topic. Flame on if ya will, but it will serve no useful purpose I can think of, other than to show what sort of person ya are about such things.

Thanks to those who helped me out very much! To the others.. Thanks to you too, not so much though.

Have a great weekend!

[Plate plinker]

1911forum.com

you can cruise that sight and probably get find opinions from true 1911 masters.
Thats what I would do if I were in your shoes.

[GONRA]

GONRA's not sure if this is "on topic" or "appropriate" but here goes:

Decades ago ran into a 9mm Luger shooter who was worried about dented case mouths and had devised an elaborate test to check it all out at the Pistol Range.
Pointed out to him that the fired case, grabbed by the top mounted extractor, kicked off by the ejector, ROTATES off the extractor.
Case MOUTH wacks the top toggle and fired case BOUNCES OFF to whereever.

Moral here: Always consider / remember the (possible) ROTATIONAL (not just TRANSLATIONAL) component of the ejection process....
May or may NOT apply to yer particular firearm. Just keep it in mind.

[Texas by God]

:bigsmyl2:I think you and your pistol need a Valium.

[sawinredneck]

"Pour me, pour me, pour me another shot of whiskey."

[JBinMN]

Those who steered me towards the extractor being the issue seem to have me on the right track. I went out today between rains & shot some rounds. I checked over the pistol after about 10 rounds & found where the case mouth was hitting the port because there was a bit of brass residue, but there was no other apparent brass residue elsewhere. I gathered up some of the cases & they were re- marked as before. While I was there I took some video while I was firing some of the rounds & then looked at the video slowed down as slow as I could get it. The case mouth is hitting the side of the port, then the extractor as it seems to be still pulling, is flipping up the case from the first hit on the slide, & hitting the top of the port at the rear of the port where there is a sharp edge, creating the ding/dent. The case is basically going to the right & then deflecting/rotating up after it contacts the slide & hitting that sharp edge before getting thrown from the pistol.

In this first pic I am holding the tip of a toothpick where the case mouth is hitting the slide on the edge of the port:
http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/2017%20Shooting/b4ae41ec-a9ec-4586-9e03-751b3f8f1e5f_zpswih0fyoz.jpg


The second pic shows where the side of the case is hitting on the sharp edge at the top rear of the port apparently causing the mark on the side of the case:
http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/MnSportsman_Album2/2017%20Shooting/3dee2ecf-1012-45e0-bf66-b755d64a342e_zpsllqpfdya.jpg

I am going to try to reduce some of the tension on the extractor first to see if that can solve the issue. If that does not help, then I am going to rethink what to do next.

I appreciate the ones who have been helpful & am only posting here to share what I have found to help any others who might have a similar issue. I will post again if the extractor adjustment works. If it does not, without any further suggestions to help with this issue, I will not be replying to anyones posts. Even the ones like the last two, which I thought were funny. ;)

[Texas by God]

Your second pic shows the point of the port I was talking about in my first post. Dremel time!
Best, Thomas.

[hpdrifter]

You can try to "raise" the point of your ejector up a little. If you look at it now, the point is rather low I'll bet. This make the cases eject high. Raising the point will lower ejection.

I am going to try a few things when my "gun money is replenished": A heavier recoil spring, a lighter/heavier hammer spring, and a square firing pin stop.

My RIA is doing the same thing. I filed my ejector to a higher point and tuned my extractor and still get dents. They were diagonal where yours are, now they are square to the length of brass and much lighter. I am hesitant to file the ejector any more.

[35remington]

There are risks to monkeying with the extractor. That is, after you play with the tension, it starts to fail to extract or drops the case before the ejector gets a good crack at it.

In other words, at some point you may need to have another extractor in the bullpen if you modify the existing one too much, especially to include filing. Some mods don't turn out like you plan and have a negative effect. FWIW.

[hpdrifter]

There are risks to monkeying with the extractor. That is, after you play with the tension, it starts to fail to extract or drops the case before the ejector gets a good crack at it.

In other words, at some point you may need to have another extractor in the bullpen if you modify the existing one too much, especially to include filing. Some mods don't turn out like you plan and have a negative effect. FWIW.

If you're referring to my post; I said ejector. If not, never mind.

[JBinMN]

Thanks for your suggestions.
:)

I toyed with the idea of doing a little file/dremel work on that edge also, and was thinking that maybe just tweaking the extractor a bit to loosen in up might be the better idea. But, as was pointed out, that tweaking can maybe cause another issue.

So, I am now leaning towards either rounding over or adding a bevel to that sharp spot more so than messing with the extractor right now.

I think I will buy another extractor anyway, try it & if necessary tweak the one I buy first, if a swap doesn't help.

I am trying to weigh the options as they are suggested to me. I like this pistol & rather than sell it & go get another. I would rather keep it & try to fix the issue. My sons/grandsons are going to end up with it sooner than later the way my health is going anyhow.

If I can get it to where it is spitting ammo that isn't gouged, I would be very happy. Dings/dents are one thing, the gouge, even though it is fairly small, "to me" is unacceptable. I think I will talk it over with my adult sons & see what they think, before I do much more than tweaking/replacing the extractor. Aesthetics are not my concern, I am pretty ugly too, but safe operation & it functioning properly for me to reload using the same brass is a concern for me.

Thanks again for your suggestions & I will continue to read any new ones that might help with this issue.
:)

[Char-Gar]

My practice on buying pistols used or new; If the handgun doesn't please you trade it off for one that will. No sense putting up with the angst trying to run the problems down and look for a fix. None of that will convert a bad experience into a good experience.

Trade that Taurus in on a Colt or a Ruger and pay the difference. Life will be simpler, better and happier. The extra money you pay will be well spent. Happiness can be bought, at least when it comes to 1911 pistols.

[35remington]

Hp, not referring to you. The OP said extractor. I said extractor.

If the extractor is doing its thing, which is extracting the case as its primary function, my inclination is to let it continue doing it unmodified if it is doing it well. Where the case goes afterward has to do with two other areas of the gun besides the extractor. So the ding in the case is not the extractor's sole fault, or even the primary source of the problem.

Food for thought.

[tazman]

So far it appears you have only fired full power loads in your pistol. I missed it if you mentioned otherwise. Have you tried light loads to see if you got the same marks on the case?
I am not certain how much the timing and forces change with different loads, but it might make a difference and would at least give another data point to consider.

I have heard quite a few reports about the Taurus PT1911 being a good dependable firearm. I own and have owned several Taurus handguns without having any issues of significance with any of them. The ones I sold were simply because I didn't need them any more and wanted something else.

[sawinredneck]

I agree with the above post, if the extractor/ejector are working, I'd be inclined not to mess with it! I built a .45acp 1911 from parts I bought at a gun show once. Frame from this table, grips this table, beavertail another table etc., you get the idea. Took me two months and three books to get that thing sorted out! Tweek the mainspring, adjust the trigger bow, bend the extractor and so on, but once right it was an incredible piece, still not sure why I sold it but my buddy still loves it!
Anyway, this is why the started lowering and flairing the ejection port on 1911's, like my custom tuned Delta Elite. In a lot of cases this isn't done to save brass but to increase reliability of the gun.
I'll paraphrase and leave you with this thought, do you want a reliable gun that you can trust with your life, or do you want a gun that doesn't hurt your brass? I'm not going to say you can't have it both ways, eventually, but at what cost? Just something to think about.

[hpdrifter]

Hp, not referring to you. The OP said extractor. I said extractor.

If the extractor is doing its thing, which is extracting the case as its primary function, my inclination is to let it continue doing it unmodified if it is doing it well. Where the case goes afterward has to do with two other areas of the gun besides the extractor. So the ding in the case is not the extractor's sole fault, or even the primary source of the problem.

Food for thought.

Ok, that's cool. It was just a matter of timing, the reason I asked. and the bold italics is what I was posting to in previous thread.

[JBinMN]

My practice on buying pistols used or new; If the handgun doesn't please you trade it off for one that will. No sense putting up with the angst trying to run the problems down and look for a fix. None of that will convert a bad experience into a good experience.

Trade that Taurus in on a Colt or a Ruger and pay the difference. Life will be simpler, better and happier. The extra money you pay will be well spent. Happiness can be bought, at least when it comes to 1911 pistols.

Getting rid of this one and getting another is certainly under consideration.
Thanks.
:)

[JBinMN]

Hp, not referring to you. The OP said extractor. I said extractor.

If the extractor is doing its thing, which is extracting the case as its primary function, my inclination is to let it continue doing it unmodified if it is doing it well. Where the case goes afterward has to do with two other areas of the gun besides the extractor. So the ding in the case is not the extractor's sole fault, or even the primary source of the problem.

Food for thought.

I understand that & thanks for mentioning it. Sometimes one gets "so close to the trees one doesn't see the forest" I think the saying goes or something like that.

It is good to have others input on these decisions & searches for solutions, IMO.
:)

[JBinMN]

So far it appears you have only fired full power loads in your pistol. I missed it if you mentioned otherwise. Have you tried light loads to see if you got the same marks on the case?
I am not certain how much the timing and forces change with different loads, but it might make a difference and would at least give another data point to consider.

I have heard quite a few reports about the Taurus PT1911 being a good dependable firearm. I own and have owned several Taurus handguns without having any issues of significance with any of them. The ones I sold were simply because I didn't need them any more and wanted something else.

Yes, I mentioned the loads I was using in pot #28.

They were a series of 10 rounds each boolit using Alliant Red Dot, ladder stepping from 4.6 gr. to 5.0 gr. a tenth of a gr. at a time. So, I started & shot each series of 10 for each boolit type. {10 each type at 4.6/4.7/4.8/4.9/5.0 grns.}.

4.7gr. demonstrated the best accuracy for this pistol at this time(still "new"). The rounds I have loaded for it now, to see about this "dinging/denting" are all at 4.7gr..

I can understand how it was missed in the mix. I am sticking to the 4.7 right now, which is low end of the parameters.

As far as this pistol goes... I like it & it is pretty accurate for me, so I do not want to part with it yet. But, I will if it comes to it.. I will be continuing to shoot it for a bit longer though.

Thanks for your suggestion(s).
:)

[JBinMN]

I agree with the above post, if the extractor/ejector are working, I'd be inclined not to mess with it! I built a .45acp 1911 from parts I bought at a gun show once. Frame from this table, grips this table, beavertail another table etc., you get the idea. Took me two months and three books to get that thing sorted out! Tweek the mainspring, adjust the trigger bow, bend the extractor and so on, but once right it was an incredible piece, still not sure why I sold it but my buddy still loves it!
Anyway, this is why the started lowering and flairing the ejection port on 1911's, like my custom tuned Delta Elite. In a lot of cases this isn't done to save brass but to increase reliability of the gun.
I'll paraphrase and leave you with this thought, do you want a reliable gun that you can trust with your life, or do you want a gun that doesn't hurt your brass? I'm not going to say you can't have it both ways, eventually, but at what cost? Just something to think about.

I have only had it a short time. I will be considering your suggested thought as I put it thru some more paces. It is functioning very well with the exception of this ding/dent issue so far.

Thanks for your thoughts.
:)

[hpdrifter]

Thanks for your suggestions.
:)

I toyed with the idea of doing a little file/dremel work on that edge also, and was thinking that maybe just tweaking the extractor a bit to loosen in up might be the better idea. But, as was pointed out, that tweaking can maybe cause another issue.

So, I am now leaning towards either rounding over or adding a bevel to that sharp spot more so than messing with the extractor right now.

I think I will buy another extractor anyway, try it & if necessary tweak the one I buy first, if a swap doesn't help.

I am trying to weigh the options as they are suggested to me. I like this pistol & rather than sell it & go get another. I would rather keep it & try to fix the issue. My sons/grandsons are going to end up with it sooner than later the way my health is going anyhow.

If I can get it to where it is spitting ammo that isn't gouged, I would be very happy. Dings/dents are one thing, the gouge, even though it is fairly small, "to me" is unacceptable. I think I will talk it over with my adult sons & see what they think, before I do much more than tweaking/replacing the extractor. Aesthetics are not my concern, I am pretty ugly too, but safe operation & it functioning properly for me to reload using the same brass is a concern for me.

Thanks again for your suggestions & I will continue to read any new ones that might help with this issue.
:)


Hp, not referring to you. The OP said extractor. I said extractor.

If the extractor is doing its thing, which is extracting the case as its primary function, my inclination is to let it continue doing it unmodified if it is doing it well. Where the case goes afterward has to do with two other areas of the gun besides the extractor. So the ding in the case is not the extractor's sole fault, or even the primary source of the problem.

Food for thought.

If you read 35remington's post carefully, which I may not have the first time around, you will see that there are at least two more variables to affect cartridge ejection. Fixating on the extractor is limiting your options. The ejector and timing are also involved, just to name a few.


I understand that & thanks for mentioning it. Sometimes one gets "so close to the trees one doesn't see the forest" I think the saying goes or something like that.

It is good to have others input on these decisions & searches for solutions, IMO.
:)

Really!

[JBinMN]

I did understand what he was saying was "food for thought". And that I should consider the other parts like the ejector/slide/etc. (< the "Forest") involved, rather than focusing on just the ejector/tension/etc. (< the "tree(s)").
"Bigger picture" rather than just a focused view.

Thanks for your specifying about the other parts & timing/etc..
:)

I did not get the, "Really!" part of the post though. :???:

[hpdrifter]

Just to let you know, I put a 20 lb recoil spring and a 19 lb main spring in my 1911. I was in the same boat you were in; pretty heavy dents and dings in my brass about midway up the case on almost every casing. Now I might get a very small dent with no scratching on 1 out of every 5 or six.

I had also made the ejector high spot on the very top; in other words, angling down towards the back of the breech face.

I have put a box of 100 thru it since changing springs. Not a be all end all test, but it seems to have helped.