Do you know your Enemy?

[claude]

This will be a short series on our enemy, and will hopefully dispel some of the ignorance and outright lies preached from the pulpits of Christiandom concerning Satan.
One point, do not think I am attempting to glorify this man by showing you he is not some boogie man running around in red longhandled underwear waving a pitch fork, but he is in fact the apex of creation.

(Ezekiel 28:11-19) "¶ Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, {12} Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. {13} Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. {14} Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. {15} Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. {16} By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. {17} Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. {18} Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. {19} All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."

[Ickisrulz]

This passage from Ezekiel is obviously concerning Tyre and the King of Tyre. How did you arrive at your conclusion that this applies to Satan?

Certain prophecies had an immediate meaning and future (secondary) meaning, but we only know that for sure when the secondary meaning is interpreted by another biblical writer. The prophesies concerning the Messiah given by Isaiah are prime examples. I know of no biblical passage that shows Ezekiel 28:1-19 applying to anyone other that the individual named in the text.

[claude]

Satan, is the only being other than Michael who has been named as a covering Cherub, Satan has walked up and down in Eden, Satan is the only being that fits the description of the being in this passage. Period, no other entity fulfills the entirety. Read it again, who else can it be? Should you disagree, feel free to muddy the water for those who wish to see, but I will not offer any more argument. It is what it is. I will however continue this series tomorrow, and the next day, presenting scripture that you can believe, or reject as you see fit.
Thank you.

[Ickisrulz]

Satan, is the only being other than Michael who has been named as a covering Cherub, Satan has walked up and down in Eden, Satan is the only being that fits the description of the being in this passage. Period, no other entity fulfills the entirety. Read it again, who else can it be? Should you disagree, feel free to muddy the water for those who wish to see, but I will not offer any more argument. It is what it is. I will however continue this series tomorrow, and the next day, presenting scripture that you can believe, or reject as you see fit.
Thank you.

So, if I don't agree with YOU I am muddying the water? There's no need to get mad at me because I asked you what your method of interpretation is. I take your answer as that in your view it fits. Fair enough. I will add the following should be considered.

1. Where in scripture is Satan ever called a "covering Cherub?" Where in scripture is Satan ever called "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14)? This is, of course, apart from the passages in Ezekiel and Isaiah.

2. The passage in Ezekiel is filled with imagery not intended to be taken strictly literal. It is a poetic passage rather than one filled with concrete facts (like in many Psalms). When this is understood, the subject of the narrative fits the King of Tyre perfectly. Even if one were to apply this passage to Satan, it would still have to be understood as poetic rather than literal.

3. While it is common for this passage and Isaiah 14:12-20 (also filled with imagery) to be applied to Satan, there is no place in scripture that plainly shows this is a proper interpretation. People assign this application because it seems to fit and might answer some of the questions we have about Satan. We are curious and need answers.

4. The Bible might not provide a record of the fall of Satan. We conclude there was a fall because everything God creates is good. Satan must have rebelled against God somewhere in the ancient past. The closest thing were have to a concrete description of the expulsion of Satan from heaven is in Revelation 12. But this may have not been the original fall of Satan, but a removal from heaven post-fall. Not all scholars agree.

[claude]

I will not discount revealed knowledge, and my goal is to acquaint people with the enemy of the people, from scripture, I will use some of the very scriptures you point out to do this, and let them, the people, decide. Should you believe I am teaching false doctrine, by all means say it in no uncertain terms, and prove that this isn't about Satan.

I'll stand my ground, knowing this is about Satan, rather than not present it because someone believes it might not be, and should the Father judge me a false teacher, I'll take my licks.

I'm here to try to save people from being taken in by The Anti Christ (the instead of Christ) when he comes to set up shop in Jerusalem.

And just for what it is worth, no rancor involved, I have seen you offer many people that what they believe the bible says, probably isn't so, yet you seldom offer what it does say. If you can't see it, please don't take it away from those who might.

Personally, I don't care if people believe ME, I'm nobody. We could go back and forth all day long, but nothing would change, because...I don't think this is about Satan, I don't believe this is about Satan, all carnal reasoning aside, I know this is about Satan.

We are not going to argue, I'll present what I know to be true for the good of those who can accept it as true, not because I say it is true, but because it is true, and should that be only one person, it will be a victory, and will save that soul from the great apostasy to come.

I still maintain we are not that far apart, I'm not trying to paint you bad, we do though see at different levels.

[Ickisrulz]

Claude, can you please give me an example of when I've done this, "I have seen you offer many people that what they believe the bible says, probably isn't so, yet you seldom offer what it does say"?

Just because you "know" something to be true, doesn't mean it is true. Proper biblical interpretation involves adhering to certain methods. These methods do not include gut feelings or something we've always been taught.

Whether or not the passages in Ezekiel and Isaiah apply to Satan has nothing to do with avoiding being tricked by Satan anyway. So it is not a crucial issue other than the method of interpretation being employed.

Satan receives little coverage in the Bible. The key to our victory over him is our relationship with God and proper knowledge of the scriptures rather than knowing all about him. We know a few things for sure, but the specifics of his fall is not one of them in my estimation.