New handloader in need of advise 7.62x25 handloads

[Rsixta]

New to the forums here. I just picked up my lee challenger kit and all components needed to reload 7.62x25 tokarev. Extremely green at all of this. So i load my first couple of rounds and head out to try them. I go to shoot them and i get but a firecracker noise and a recoil of a .22 lr. I go to strip the barrel of my CZ 52 and its pestered with unspent powder. Despite the unspent powder, my cast bullet is not stuck in the barrel so i assume there was enough pressure to push the bullet on through. Anyone have any ideas what im doing wrong? I have the lee steel 7.62 tokarev dies, hodgen h110 pistol powder (14.00 grains charged in the cartridge as per hornady manual recommendations). I used cci small pistol primer and starline brass. I cast my bullets using a lee 6 cavity mold for a .311 diameter 93 grain bullet made of lyman #2 from rotonetals. I started at 10 grains of powder since the manual called for a jacketed bullet but had same results. Could it be no crimp or crooked bullet? Or excessive lube in cases? I took the bag if brass and used it with a bottle of forster case kube and alchohol mixture. Theyve been lubed for weeks now which may be the problem but again i dont know. I green to all of this.

[MT Gianni]

H110 doesn't like to be downloaded and generally needs a magnum primer. I have no experience with your cartridge but in the revolvers I load for I like a heavy for caliber bullet.

[PaulG67]

"I took the bag if brass and used it with a bottle of forster case kube and alchohol mixture. Theyve been lubed for weeks now which may be the problem but again i dont know."

Just a question, is your brass lubed on the inside?

P.S. welcome to the forum.

[GhostHawk]

I always preferred Red Dot in my 7.62x25. I can think of a couple of things off the top of my head.

Many powders will not burn completely if there is not enough pressure. Did you have a good crimp on those rounds?

As to the boolit I have used that small round nose lee bullet. I prefer the .314 90 gr truncated cone sized down to about .310.

I had a lot of problems with that round nose bullet running into the rifling and failing to go all the way into battery. The Truncated cone fixed all that.

Yes, I would say they need to be crimped, and crimped fairly well.

7.62x25 is kind of a tough one to start with. Many of those guns have smaller tight chambers and it can be a real juggling act to get things working correctly.

You probably also need to flare the neck slightly before trying to insert a cast boolit or the neck is going to shave lead as the boolit seats. For starters just a center punch or a pair of needle nose pliers inserted into the neck and give a little twist.

Then when you seat and crimp it will remove that slight flare so they chamber well.

I played with that cartridge off and on for a year, finally got it working. And then bought 250 rounds of PPU hollow point ammo so I did not feel like I was being a lazy bum and not fussing with it anymore. Call me crazy but I sleep better if I know I have 250-300 rounds of loaded ammo for any gun I have in the house. It is what it is.

Nowadays I sleep well, and my ammo table is groaning under the load. :)

[JeffG]

Personally, I'm a little surprised to see H110 recommended for Tokarev and I'm a little surprised you can get 14 grains in the case. I typically use a much faster pistol powder like green dot, unique or be-86. Tokarev is also not what I'd call a easy cartridge to load because getting neck tension is difficult. Do you have any other quicker pistol powders?

[Bzcraig]

Hornady does indeed list a starting load of 10.2grs so you're fine starting there and the max load was 14.0 IIRC. I would however try one of the other faster pistol powders and give careful consideration to what those who posted mentioned, especially who reload that round.

[kayala]

Not very friendly cartridge to start with. Make a dummy round to make sure your dies are set properly - your dummy round should pass a "plunk" test (you drop it freely in the barrel and it seats properly and freely falls out also with this cartridge it's also good idea to do a "push" test - grab your test round set bullet against some hard surface and push slightly - bullet should not go inside the case and as already been said - H110 doesn't perform well when downloaded, usually there's like couple grains between min and max charge. Good luck with your new hobby and welcome to the forum.

[Rsixta]

Thanks for the advise. I mixed the the case with my lube in a bag shook it around so its possible my cases are lubed inside. When i drop a charge some of the powder stick to the inside of the neck. I also flared my neck pretty well to accept the bullet barely. In terms of bullet seating, i tried my first batch with no crimp And got bad results so i tried roating the die a half turn (not the bullet seat adjustment) and still same results. I think it may be that the inside case is lubed that causes the powder to not ignite? My groove diameter in my cz 52 is .314". I had my old supervisor who is a ffl gunsmith slug it for me to show me how.

[Outpost75]

A charge of 5 grains of Bullseye was recommended by Hatcher for the 7.63 (.30) Mauser. It is also listed by Lyman. That starting load wouldn’t cycle 100% in either my Cz52 or the TT33. RCBS Little Dandy Rotor #10 meters actual weight average of 5.3 grains with current Alliant from my measure and cycles both pistols reliably. Velocity approximates PPU about 1400 fps with Accurate 31-087B and 1370 fps with the 90-gr. Hornady XTP .309”.

Good load!

FYI for my cast loads I'm running 50-50 wheelweights and linotype, about 16 BHN. No leading issues.

197776

[JeffG]

Hornady does indeed list a starting load of 10.2grs so you're fine starting there and the max load was 14.0 IIRC. I would however try one of the other faster pistol powders and give careful consideration to what those who posted mentioned, especially who reload that round.

That's interesting. I don't have that manual. Thanks.

[jrayborn]

Well you have certainly started with a challenging first round! FYI asking for help is a great idea and something a lot of new hand loaders do not always do, I have learned that folks enjoy trying to help!

Anyway you have not done yourself any favors with your choice of cartridge, powder and method of lubing. Not a thing wrong with any of them, just a challenge, and more so as a beginner.

I will offer my advice on the powder, like others mentioned H110 can work, but Power Pistol is much easier to start with as would many other faster (than H110) powders. You might seriously consider trying something different if possible.

Your lube technique will give you a little trouble with the stuck powder in the neck and I'm not sure it might give you trouble with the powder charge as well. At $7-8 "One Shot" case lube is a bit pricey, but it works fairly well and is EASY. I like EASY.

As for the cartridge, remember that its a bottleneck round. You should size and trim (or at least measure) every round before loading. Kind of tedious especially since I loose a lot of brass out of the Tokerev's, but it can be important. I have had good luck with Unique, Red Dot, and Power Pistol powders. Others will work well too and Accurate #5 and #7 are highly recommended by some.

Good luck!

[smkummer]

I load that same load of 5.0 bullseye for a friend's broomhandle mauser and it functions perfectly and is very accurate. He shoots it with a shoulder stock. Right now I have a supply of factory Remington bullets for the 30 Luger that weigh 93 grains. When they run out, I'll go back to the 90 grain hornandy XTP. Initial testing with the Lee 93 grain RN hardcast lead were not accurate.

[9.3X62AL]

The C-96/Broomhandle is a bit more forgiving of lower-pressure loads than are the TT-30/33 or CZ-52. I am another onlooker that is very surprised at the H-110 recommendation in that mentioned manual. Accurate Arms #7 has been about the best fuel I've tried in this fussbudget caliber and in 30 Luger.

[Larry Gibson]

A 93 gr cast bullet out of a .311 mould in a .314 groove barrel is not going to have enough mass nor obturate even under a charge H110 to make that powder burn efficiently.

A change to a faster powder and a correct sized cast bullet of a bit more weight is strongly suggested. Years ago when I reloaded for a Tokarev 7.62x25 I found a 90 gr .314 sized 313249 did not shoot all that well as the Tokarev with Unique powder pushed the PB'd cast bullet too fast. Switching to a .314 sized 105 GC'd 313631 (SWC made for the 32 H&R) solved the problem. Accuracy and functioning proved excellent with the GC'd 105 gr SWC over Unique.

Larry Gibson

[charlie b]

I wish my Broomhandle liked light weight loads. It just doesn't cycle properly unless loaded to max. But....max for the C96 is lower than the Tokarev. Don't shoot the Mauser much just cause it flings the brass. It is a fun gun to shoot with the shoulder stock.

[9.3X62AL]

"Flings the brass" is a very polite and understated term for the Broomer's ejection habits. "Ejection pattern" is indiscernable. "All points of the compass" seems about right.

"Cool factor" is kinda high, though. I have hunted jackrabbits with it. Hitting a running jack with this contraption is like a happy second marriage--a triumph of hope over experience--but a standing (and patient) critter can be hit at 35-50 yards if early low misses don't throw sand at them. That pisses them off. If you connect at those ranges, the effects are pretty impressive. Kinda like a 32 H&R Mag with poetic downrange distribution. The batting average goes up markedly when the S&W Model 16-4 is at the plate.

Downside--putting up with smart aleck partners making wise comments about "Dating the Dragon Lady & borrowing her pistol". They so funny.

[Minerat]

"I took the bag if brass and used it with a bottle of forster case kube and alchohol mixture."

If I read you right you used the entire bottle of case lube & alcohol in the bag of brass. I usually only use a couple or 3 spritzes for 50 cases and work them around really good to get a light coating on the outside of the cases. A little bit goes a long way.

You should be able to adjust your die to put a crimp on the cases. Make it a 4 step process will assure you get consistent crimps. Simplest way to do that is:
1. seat the bullets to the same depth within in the length limits for the caliber.
2. is to screw the seating stem out so it will not touch the bullet in the next step, loosen the die ring
3. put a cartridge on the press ram and raise it to max height, then screw the die in till it stops.
4. Lower the cartridge and screw the die in a couple of turns, raise the cartridge to crimp.
Repeat steps 3 & 4 until you get the crimp you want, then lock the die ring.
Leave the seating stem up so you do not change the seating depth.

In the future if you want to go to a 1 step seat/crimp. Lower the seating stem till it just touches the bullet and then lock it too. I tend to just use the 2 step method seat, then crimp, just because it's more consistent. For more discussion on "crimping" use the search feature in the forum.

If you have to let your brass drip dry ya used too much.:kidding:

Welcome, happy reloading and always remember you're saving money!

[Outpost75]

Also good to know, the Accurate 31-100T designed for the Ruger .30 Carbine Blackhawk is also a good fit in my Polish TT33 and runs 100% with 5 grains of Bullseye, RCBS Little Dandy rotor #9, Starline brass, Federal 200 primer.