Glocks lead

[Lloyd Smale]

add this to the urban legends! Fired 300 10mms ea through my 29 and my 20 today loaded with 180 lees sized to 401 and 12 grains of aa9. Nothing but a light wash that was there from the last range trip that you get in any gun. never got a bit worse. Don't know how many rounds through these two guns since the barrels were cleaned but its got to be north of 2k.

[dragon813gt]

Let me guess, stock barrels? I'm shocked I tell you, completely shocked :laugh: While my G20 doesn't have as many rounds down the barrel as yours does. I have the same results where there is no trace of leading.

Now sit back and wait for all the "you need an aftermarket barrel to shoot lead" posts...... :popcorn:

[Tom W.]

Ain't gonna get that from me. I had two Glocks in 9mm and one in .45 acp and never had leading with the stock Gen 4 barrels.

[bedbugbilly]

Don't own a Glock - yet. One in the near future though. Just curious . . . . no or minimal leading . . . any correlation to lube you are using? I tumble lube in alox/pastewax. I know there are those that PC everything and others that use lubesizer. So just curious if there is more of an issue with one lube method than another?

After much reading, etc. - form posted experiences with the stock Glock barrels and lead boolits, I'm no longer leery of taking the plunge. I know speed/alloy play a factor as well but am just curious as to the lubes used versus any leading or wash. Thanks!

[KenH]

I've got a G43 with stock barrel that's had perhaps a 1,000 cast bullets down the barrel with NO sign of leading at all. I do powder coat everything - just seems to work better than alox or any of the other lubes I've used over the years.

[WebMonkey]

Sweet!

G26 stock everything.
Lee 356-124 round and Lee 358-137-hp and lee 358-125-rf.
Powder coated over 3.5 titegroup.
No leading.

[beechbum444]

titegroup works for me too, what are you sizing the boolits too......356. .357?? whats the OAL (1.050??) with the lee 125 -358 RF???

[Lefty Red]

add this to the urban legends! Fired 300 10mms ea through my 29 and my 20 today loaded with 180 lees sized to 401 and 12 grains of aa9. Nothing but a light wash that was there from the last range trip that you get in any gun. never got a bit worse. Don't know how many rounds through these two guns since the barrels were cleaned but its got to be north of 2k.

So how was it?
Was there a major difference in recoil or time on target from one shot to the next, between the 20 and 29?

Lefty


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[EMC45]

My G36 got dirtier shooting jacketed (copper wash) then when I shot lead over and over again-hundreds of rounds.

[P Flados]

I envy all the lucky dogs that have not had to fight the Glock boolit battle.

My boy's 9mm leaded with everything I tried (including PC - HF Red asbb). The only "cure" I found with the factory barrel was dropping loads below the point of cycling the action.

We gave up and bought an aftermarket barrel. We are still having problems.

First problem was that all of our loaded ammo (a bunch) would hang up on the throat and the action would not fully close without lots of help. The new barrel was smaller (0.3555" or so) than the stock (0.3565" of so). Boolits were also shaving due to the sharp edge between the chamber and the throat. I lapped a small bevel at this location and re-seated all my ammo to pass the plunk test.

After the intial "fixes" we tried some Lee 110 RNs with min powder and BLL. Shaving was fixed, but accuracy went south before 30 rounds. Cleaning was a bear due to the heavy leading.

Next round was ASBB HF Red Lee 125 RNFPs and min powder. Results were Ok but just marginal. PC coated 110s still leaded up fast.

I am hoping I am just too big at 0.3575" for my boolits. A lee 0.356" sizer is on the way.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup factory barrel. I had a wolf barrel for the 20 and found the stock barrel out shot it with both lead and jacketed and had a bit looser chamber that made it more reliable.

[Lloyd Smale]

Bullets were cast out on an alloy that is about 15bhn. Lubed with a batch of lube that has beeswax, alox, lars corduba and left overs from about 5 different batches of commercial lube mixed together in a crock pot. About a 1/5 of them were pc'd
Don't own a Glock - yet. One in the near future though. Just curious . . . . no or minimal leading . . . any correlation to lube you are using? I tumble lube in alox/pastewax. I know there are those that PC everything and others that use lubesizer. So just curious if there is more of an issue with one lube method than another?

After much reading, etc. - form posted experiences with the stock Glock barrels and lead boolits, I'm no longer leery of taking the plunge. I know speed/alloy play a factor as well but am just curious as to the lubes used versus any leading or wash. Thanks!

[6bg6ga]

Fired lead thru my 20 and my 23 with no ill effects. My thought is its all about proper bullet size. No leading, no problems, just another BS idea.

Another legend...local deputy sheriff told me you cannot reload 40 cal without it blowing up the gun. It would appear who ever loaded for them didn't know their butt from a hole in the ground.

Hardness.... I've loaded anything from 5-17 in hardness. The pure lead I kept the FPS below 1200 and still no leading.

My lube was 1/2 alox beeswax or Ben's red. or a mixture of the two of them because I do not dump the lube but keep adding to it.

[WebMonkey]

titegroup works for me too, what are you sizing the boolits too......356. .357?? whats the OAL (1.050??) with the lee 125 -358 RF???

Lee push through .356
Seated with crimp groove barely showing 1.045
Chronograph showed 1100fps @ 15'

[KenH]

Well, my dinky G43 seems to shoot most anything just fine.... that's cycling without any FTF - well, there are times when I didn't get a bullet seated deep enough, or not enough powder to cycle. Once the load is worked up, from a Lee 102, Lee 127, or Lee 158 grain bullets they all seem to cycle and function just fine.... as long as there is enough powder to make the slide pop back nicely. I tend to load plinking rounds as light as they will go so there is less noise and recoil. I do keep factory +P loads for defense.

I found the 158 cast bullets have less recoil and less noise than the lighter bullets. I'm loading 3 grain of Unique for the 158 and it cycles just fine.

I'm using Smoke's clear for PC - and alloy of COWW, range lead, etc. Nothing exceptionally hard, usually less than 10 BHN. The HF red PC I used doesn't cover as well as the clear, but shouldn't cause any leading. The only think I can think that might cause PC'd bullets to lead could be either of two things. Not baking the full 20 minutes at 400ºF which might prevent the PC from curing as strong as it should. OR - the brass not being belled a bit to allow bullet to slide in without shearing the PC exposing some lead on the sides.

I'm sizing my bullets to around .358" to .359" - either seems to work just fine. PC that passes the smash test should NOT allow any lead to touch the barrel, unless it's been sheared during bullet seating to allow bare lead to touch barrel.

Bullet length depends strongly on the bullet nose shape. The Lee 102 has a 1R nose radius while the 127 has a 2R nose radius which requires the 102 to be seated deeper to allow bullet to chamber fully. A SWC usually has a smaller nose than the bore so it can be seated much longer and stuff chamber nicely.

Now, as to how accurate my cast bullets are in the Glock? Heck if I know - I can't hit side of barn with the darn thing, that's which factory loads or cast loads. I've never been able to hit much with a semi-auto pistol. I like my old Colt Trooper .357 MUCH better - I can hit with that thing. Maybe I just need to shoot a few more thousand rounds with the Glock?

Ken H>

[EMC45]

I will say this much in regard to Glock factory barrels. When I shot my old Pastor's G19 the factory barrel did not like .356 sized bullets. They would tumble and would lead badly. Bumped to .358 and it was a laser beam. No lead.

[P Flados]

I envy all the lucky dogs that have not had to fight the Glock boolit battle.

My boy's 9mm leaded with everything I tried (including PC - HF Red asbb). The only "cure" I found with the factory barrel was dropping loads below the point of cycling the action.

We gave up and bought an aftermarket barrel. We are still having problems.

First problem was that all of our loaded ammo (a bunch) would hang up on the throat and the action would not fully close without lots of help. The new barrel was smaller (0.3555" or so) than the stock (0.3565" of so). Boolits were also shaving due to the sharp edge between the chamber and the throat. I lapped a small bevel at this location and re-seated all my ammo to pass the plunk test.

After the intial "fixes" we tried some Lee 110 RNs with min powder and BLL. Shaving was fixed, but accuracy went south before 30 rounds. Cleaning was a bear due to the heavy leading.

Next round was ASBB HF Red Lee 125 RNFPs and min powder. Results were Ok but just marginal. PC coated 110s still leaded up fast.

I am hoping I am just too big at 0.3575" for my boolits. A lee 0.356" sizer is on the way.

Update: My Lee 125 RNFP with HF Red ASBB PC and 3.9 of TG has plenty of power to fully cycle the action and does not lead in the new barrel. This is with boolits sized both 0.357" and 0.356".

Last trip to the range still had more than a few "Fail to fire". The problem was that slide was not going full forward. After the range trip, I pulled the barrel and inserted a bunch of rounds by hand. The first few seated great. However as I kept going, I found others that did not do so well. Lets say about 14 out of 15 would go very close to full in with very low force (light pressure with one finger). The worst offenders were about 0.010" from full in with around 5 - 10 lbs of force. Reducing the OAL by 0.015" to 1.005" made a big difference in feel with no outliers while hand inserting a big batch.

I am thinking that my PC coating (the surface finish on the un-sized portion of the boolits does have occasional "bumps" where the powder "clumped on" during shaking) may at least part of the cause of the inconsistency with some seating fine and some not. The other potential is that I may have cast some with a small gap (say 0.0005" to 0.001") between each half of the mold.

It is a real shame that aftermarket barrel makers (who get a big portion of their buisness from people wanting to shoot cast) do not wake up and give us throats that are cast friendly.

Regardless, I am happy with the new OAL so far. With TightGroup powder, my 3.9 gr load still has some free space under the boolit. Range testing for final confirmation is expected Friday morning.

Once I get happy with PC coated 125's, I will probably go back to the 110's and/or BLL and try to establish mupltiple "good" options for boolits in this gun.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I guess I drank the aftermarket barrel CoollAid. Which is ok. The LW barrel I now have in my G20 has a tighter chamber which is easier on my brass and it still feeds 100% with everything I've fed it. So, while it may not be mandatory, it's ok. But it is good to know I can shoot cast in the oem barrel. If I can ever find it again.:-/

[Love Life]

All barrels in all platforms will lead if not done correctly.

That being said, casting for Glocks is no different than casting for anything else. I love Glock barrels. Chambers and throats are usually done well, and interior finish is very good.

Years back I did testing between poly rifled and traditional rifled barrels using coated bullets to see which cut or hurt the bullet the most.

Poly barrels were easier on the bullet. The accuracy was better with the traditional cut barrels, but I attribute that to the pistols used and fit/barrel lock up.


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[Greg S]

Only reason I went aftermarket in my gen3 G20 was for a tighter chamber. Midrange loads (180@1150) were guppied.

[rintinglen]

Amazing what proper lubes and boolit fit can accomplish, ain't it.

[beechbum444]

Lee push through .356
Seated with crimp groove barely showing 1.045
Chronograph showed 1100fps @ 15'

Same here lee push thru .356. 1.050 OAL just under 1100 fps....its great using one mold for 38 357 and 9mm

[9.3X62AL]

Aftermarket barrels made sense for Gen 2 Glocks in 40 S&W due to large unsupported case head areas in the chambers of those pistols, which caused the infamous GLOCK BULGE. Mods made to chambers in Gen 3 Glock 40 S&Ws to provide better case head support showed that Glock was paying attention to citizen and LE complaints about kB incidents and not taking cover behind their "Use only new factory ammo in the Glock pistols".

The leading problems in Glock pistols have the same causes as any other barrel that leads up--undersized bullets due to either initial over-small bullet diameters or "created" undersizing by tooling dimensions--expander spuds too small (size-down by case mouth) or misuse/over-use of taper-crimping dies.

[Geezer in NH]

Only reason I went aftermarket in my gen3 G20 was for a tighter chamber. Midrange loads (180@1150) were guppied.
WYHAT is GUPPIED in 50 plus years of shooting and reloading never heard GUPPIED

[6bg6ga]

WYHAT is GUPPIED in 50 plus years of shooting and reloading never heard GUPPIED

I'll second that

[9.3X62AL]

"Guppied" = "blevied" = distended/expanded outside normal parameters due to high pressures within unsupported environments. In this case, the unsupported "6 o'clock" portion of the Glock's rear chamber in some models and calibers. I have watched for this condition in my new-series Gen 3 Glock 20 SF and 29 SF variants very closely. To date, using both W-W and Starline brass and running 180 grain bullets to 1175 in the shorty and 1250 FPS in the longer barrel, no "smilies" or "Glock bulges" have shown themselves yet. Most of my loads use slower-for-application powders--AA-9, Blue Dot, and AA-7.

I'll keep looking, because my theory has been and remains that the "Glock 40 Caliber Ka-Boom" mystery has to do with this distended case portion being ironed back into proper form as cases were repeatedly reloaded, resulting in a work-hardening process in these areas of the brass case. Murphy's Law gets no plea bargains, and eventually a case's base area gets weakened enough through repetitious reworking that its ability to contain pressures is compromised. That reworked area finds its way to overlay the unsupported chamber portion--the 35K PSI gasses get loose in the receiver, and the pistol's bottom half gets destroyed. This is not common--it doesn't happen with new ammo/cases--but it did occur often enough to cause concern. Design changes to Glock Gen 3 40 caliber pistols seem to have caused these instances to dwindle in frequency.

The distention I have seen in older Gen 2 40 S&W Glock pistols is between 15% and 30% of a case base's circumference, and can be both seen and felt. In my family's 3 Glock 40 S&W Gen 3 pistols, this characteristic has been absent entirely in R-P and W-W brass.

[JMax]

I got my Glock Meister shooting cast 155 gr SWC in my G22 and G35 and one of my sons won 3 guns and was Match Meister also shooting my cast bullets and pistols. No leading in them and in my G17 as well.

[9.3X62AL]

I'll get around to trying castings in the Glock 40s and 10s sooner or later. I have a healthy supply of Hornady 180 HAP bullets in the meantime (about 1200, at last count) so it take a bit of time. Christmas gifts!

[P Flados]

Update to post 17: I have fixed the FTFs, but am still having problems. My latest details are in a newer thread at post 27 of:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?154418-9mm-leading

[meotai]

Maybe try a cast lead friendly powder? Here's a list from precision bullets. http://www.precisionbullets.com/faq.html

Vihtavuori – N-320/N-340
Ramshot – Competition/Zip
Winchester – WST
Alliant – American Select/Power Pistol
Hodgdon – Universal Clays/HP38

[P Flados]

Maybe try a cast lead friendly powder? Here's a list from precision bullets. http://www.precisionbullets.com/faq.html

Vihtavuori – N-320/N-340
Ramshot – Competition/Zip
Winchester – WST
Alliant – American Select/Power Pistol
Hodgdon – Universal Clays/HP38

I have considered powder. For burn rate, Titegroup is midpack for what people usually consider good for a 9 mm. I have pushed Titegroup pretty hard under PC boolits in lots of other guns with no problems at all (327 Fed, 357 mag, 357 max, 44 mag). Also, the leading problem is with a lighter than typical boolit, 110 grn.

Still, slower might be better for leading. My only on-hand choice that is slower but reasonable would be Unique. Unique is probably "slower than optimal" (i.e. likely to be dirty as sin) for a light load 110 grn in a 9mm. I may try some if needed after I finish running the current tests.

I would really rather "fix" the problem with something like the right combination of powder charge, lube and sizing that does not require any new investment or on-going increase in cost per round (this will be high volume round).

If I need to spend money on something new, my first choice will probably be to try the Lee 120 TC that seems to be popular and have the least problems in a 9 mm for a Lee mold.

[meotai]

Which PC are you using? is the polyester one from Smoke4320? I loaded up a bunch of clear PC boolits with titegroup to test this weekend. I'm hoping it'll work 'cause I got 8lbs of it to burn through.

[6bg6ga]

I have considered powder. For burn rate, Titegroup is midpack for what people usually consider good for a 9 mm. I have pushed Titegroup pretty hard under PC boolits in lots of other guns with no problems at all (327 Fed, 357 mag, 357 max, 44 mag). Also, the leading problem is with a lighter than typical boolit, 110 grn.

Still, slower might be better for leading. My only on-hand choice that is slower but reasonable would be Unique. Unique is probably "slower than optimal" (i.e. likely to be dirty as sin) for a light load 110 grn in a 9mm. I may try some if needed after I finish running the current tests.

I would really rather "fix" the problem with something like the right combination of powder charge, lube and sizing that does not require any new investment or on-going increase in cost per round (this will be high volume round).

If I need to spend money on something new, my first choice will probably be to try the Lee 120 TC that seems to be popular and have the least problems in a 9 mm for a Lee mold.

I have never lead yet. I size my 9mm to .357 and lube with the NRA 50/50 mix. Bullets are sized and lubed with my Star sizer /lubricator. I have used ANY powder and simply keep the speed at 1100 or slightly below. I have used lead that was straight lead as tested with my tester all the way up to 14 for hardness. Powder has not been a factor to me in leading. In the case of a Glock I simply switched to a Lone Wolf barrel instead of trying to shoot lead thru the Glock barrel.

The wife shoots lead thru her Springfield XDE no leading. She shoots lead thru her S&W 669 no leading. I shoot lead thru my CM9 Gen2 Sarsilmaz 9mm no leading. Last my Glock 23 with a Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel no leading.

I have come to the conclusion 3 factors have to be met and satisfied. One is fit, the second is lube, the third is speed. Now, these are my ideas in which other may not agree with but when I follow these I don't lead. When I try to cheat with cheap lube I will lead. When I exceed my speed limit I have set I lead. When I don't pay attention to fit bullet too loose or too tight I lead.

While people myself included have experienced no leading with a Glock factory barrel there are exceptions that I have seen that no matter what you seem to try you always get some leading. Generally speaking when I follow my three rules I don't lead.

One thing I have learned with 50+ years of shooting is trying to cheap out on components always leads to problems. I personally have had no good results with Ben's Red or other hand made lubes. I've learned to either stick to the 50/50 mix or to purchase commercially made lubes.

Just my .02

[EMC45]

Shot my G36 on Monday. 50 rounds Lee 230gr. TC in mixed cases over 4.5gr. Bullseye. One pass in the bore with brush followed by a CLP soaked patch. Good to go.

[9.3X62AL]

I have run large numbers of cast bullets through Glock 45 ACPs. The 45 ACP is a pretty lead-friendly caliber, and the Glock twist rates in 45 ACP are "normal" and lead-friendly--1 turn/400mm (15.75"). I did not have ANY lead deposits, even after extensive shooting strings. .452" or .454" sizing did not matter--accuracy was constant, and clean-up was easy.

My over-riding concern with the 40/10 Glocks has been brass life and distention. So far that seems to be a non-issue. .401" sizing has worked very well in my CZ-75B x 40 S&W and in my S&W 1006 and 1026. All of these have slower "normal" twists (1-16"). In the 9mm, my best work came using relative hard alloy (92/6/2), soft lubes (50/50 Alox & BW) and throat-sizing. Basically--do the same things in the pistol that you do with a rifle to make castings behave themselves. I would like to see the castings work well in the Glocks and their OEM barrels. I did have a G-23 (now with our daughter in WA) and it has a Storm Lake barrel. .401" castings did well in that barrel; it too has 1-16 twist and lands & grooves rifling form. We will see what happens. Aftermarket barrels are always an option.

[meotai]

Which PC are you using? is the polyester one from Smoke4320? I loaded up a bunch of clear PC boolits with titegroup to test this weekend. I'm hoping it'll work 'cause I got 8lbs of it to burn through.

I was able to test this titegroup & PC combo today & it works fine. No more keyholing, & the barrel stayed clean.

[Ramjet-SS]

I have 5 different 10mm and shoot lead through them all. 200 Grain WFN GC. Full house loads. Love the lead for the 10 it has great accuracy and fantastic lethality on game.