30-40 Krag Cast loads

[Nothsa110]

I want to start reloading cast bullets for my 1898 Krag Jorgensen, i have slugged the bore and it comes out to .311 I have reloading dies from LEE and shoot mainly 180gr Spitzers with 34grs of IMR 4895 with ok accuracy (3" at 100 yards and I ain't the best shot). So what are your suggestions for cast bullet weight, bullet size, hardness of lead, and powder charge?
Thanks.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170614/b030c488c247183b164b84c91296a4ca.jpg

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[JonB_in_Glencoe]

welcome to the forum.

I'd probably find a 200gr mold that drops a fat boolit, since the original Krag ammo was loaded with 200 or 220gr bullets. I'd start by using air-cooled COWW alloy, and size the boolit .312 with a GC.
I like the NOE 311-202-RN

Then try one of the two following well known loads for 30 cal milsurps.
13gr Red Dot
or
16gr 2400

[JMax]

I use a NOE 314-202GC sized to .311 on top of 16 gr of 2400 with 3" groups at 100 with old eyes.

[Hamish]

"I do have lots of experience with the 30-40 round, 311284 and 2400 in Krag and Winchester 95 rifles. 16/2400/311284 is a good accurate load in any rifle safe to fire factory 30-40 rounds. When pressures start to exceed what is needed to push the bullet past 1.7K fps, then slower powders are needed.

The best load I have found for that bullet in the 30-40 at 2K fps is 50/WC872.".

- Char-Gar; Nov. 2011

(Charles, yet again, thanks, I'm getting ready to load for the Krag myself and will be starting with a slightly reduced WC872-311284 load.)


Was just looking at this thread the other day: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?133242-Load-data-for-30-40-and-210-311284

[lotech]

If you have a .311" bore, only a few .30 caliber moulds will cast large enough to provide good accuracy. I would suggest Lyman #314299, wheelweight alloy, sized as large as will safely chamber, maybe .312" or .313" in your rifle. Powders: 5744, 4759, Reloder7, H4895, not necessarily in that order. I size this bullet to .311" for .30-40 Ruger #3 and all .308s and .30-06s.

#311284 is a popular .30 caliber design and often shoots well, but I've found #314299 with its fat nose is generally a bit more accurate.

[Char-Gar]

Here are few facts and pointers about loading cast bullet in the 30-40 Krag rifle.

1. The barrel twist is 1-10, same as the O3, O3A3 Springfield and most commercial 30-06 rifles, which give you a wide latitude to match bullet design and weight to the velocity desired. I have good luck with cast GC bullets from 160 to 220 grains in the Krag rifle.

2. COAL will be determined by what length of the rounds you can run through the magazine. The chamber has a very long throat so you won't be able to seat any bullet out to touch the lands IF you want the rounds to feed through the magazine. You can still get good accuracy with bullets that have to hit the lands on the run.

3. In addition to the long throat, it is also quite large. This makes your .311 barrel groove not an issues. Cast bullets of .312 - .313 diameter will shoot better than anything smaller. There fore you will need a "fat 30" bullet to give you best accuracy.

4. Krag rifles receivers are very hard and therefore brittle. When one turns loose, it doesn't turn into a grenade like the lower number 03s of similar hardness. The difference is the Krag design doesn't capture the escaping gas like the 03/Mauser designs do.

5. Because of the brittle receiver, I keep loads with fast power like 2400 in the 1.4 - 1.5K fps range. For higher velocities I go to a slower powder with 50 grains of WC862 doing very well for me.

6. The bottom of the Krag action has no recoil lug, with the back of the magazine box serving as the lug. Therefore, it is important for the back of the magazine box to bear firmly against the stock wood at that point. Often a shim or glass bedding is needed there.

The Krags are fun old rifles and the above are the pointers I can give you about loading and shooting them. A Krag rifle properly set and fired with good ammo can be expected to deliver 1.5 - 2.5 MOA accuracy. Mind you I am talking about 10 shot groups on demand, not the occasional 3 to 5 shot luck group. From time to time 3 to 5 bullets will wander into a very tight cluster, but that is a fluke and not indicative of the rifles' accuracy potential. There are no lucky 10 shot groups.

[Nothsa110]

I believe I know what to do now. Thanks for all your replies. I will make sure to post my results once I get out to the range.

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[Char-Gar]

"I do have lots of experience with the 30-40 round, 311284 and 2400 in Krag and Winchester 95 rifles. 16/2400/311284 is a good accurate load in any rifle safe to fire factory 30-40 rounds. When pressures start to exceed what is needed to push the bullet past 1.7K fps, then slower powders are needed.

The best load I have found for that bullet in the 30-40 at 2K fps is 50/WC872.".

- Char-Gar; Nov. 2011

(Charles, yet again, thanks, I'm getting ready to load for the Krag myself and will be starting with a slightly reduced WC872-311284 load.)


Was just looking at this thread the other day: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?133242-Load-data-for-30-40-and-210-311284

WC872 must be lightly compressed to get a decent burn and decent accuracy. Drop the powder through a long drop tube or touch the charged cases in the block on top of vibrating tumbled to settle the powder down. The seated bullet should then compress the powder a smidge more. If your bullet does not compress the powder then use an inert filler like shotshell buffer on top of the powder to get the compression.

My loads of 50/WC872 requires no filler with 311284. This very slow powder continues to burn down the barrel and is easy on a Krag action. The barrel does get hotter than the hinges of hell rather quickly though. You will probably have a few kernels of unburned powder in the barrel, just blow them out every few shots. Blow from the breech or you will end up with the kernels in the recoil lug recess or messing up the cartridge rim headspace. I learned all of this stuff by doing it the wrong way first. :-)

In a full length military Krag, 50/WC872/311284 will shoot to the sights and produce accuracy as good as the best jacketed bullet load all the way out to 600 yards. Shoot the bullets as large as you can as long as they will chamber easy. I prefer at least .312 or .313 and in some chambers I have to neck turn the brass to get an easy fit.

The largest Krag barrel groove diameter I have had is .312 but I have heard of them larger. After about 1900 the barrel groove were a pretty regular .3095 and went down to a true .308 in the last year or two of production. However the throats remained large all the way through production.

[Char-Gar]

One more thought before I go on my way, leaving you guys with visions of dancing Krags in your heads.

If it very common to find Krag rifles with excess headspace due to the bolts getting set back in the receiver. This makes neck sizing almost a necessity to avoid a case seperation. If you full length resize keep a sharp lookout for incipient case head signs (bright ring and inside inspection) of imminent separations.

When rebarreling a Krag have the gunsmith set the chamber so the back of the bolt will bear against the rear receiver ring.

A couple of years ago, some guy found a crate of arsenal new Krag bolts and sold them on Ebay for $40.00 each. I bought a two and the guy sold all he had in a week or two. They are real treasures if you can latch on to one.

[BCB]

I’m also a fan of the slow burning stuff. WC-860 & WC-872…

I have been shooting the 311-202-RN with 27.0 grains of Benchmark…

I am now going to try starting load of 47 grains of WC-872…

What is interesting, or maybe not correct, is the fact that QuickLoad shows maximum pressure for the Benchmark at 2.0” travel. For the WC-827 it shows only 1.6” travel. I would think the slow powder would build maximum pressure a bit farther down the barrel?...

Which is true? Or are the both true?...

Thanks…BCB

[BCB]

Results this morning using WC-872 and the NOE 311-202-RN cast from WW...

Groups were shot only at 50 yards as I wasn't sure I would even be on paper with the 'scope set for Benchmark loads...

Top to bottom in pic is 47, 48, and 49 grains. (If the pic displays up and down and not left and right!)

Now, if it just stays somewhat proportional accuracy on out the range at longer distances...

Chronograph time now...

Good-luck...BCB

[S.B.]

welcome to the forum.

I'd probably find a 200gr mold that drops a fat boolit, since the original Krag ammo was loaded with 200 or 220gr bullets. I'd start by using air-cooled COWW alloy, and size the boolit .312 with a GC.
I like the NOE 311-202-RN

Then try one of the two following well known loads for 30 cal milsurps.
13gr Red Dot
or
16gr 2400

Why clip on instead of stick ons? Is there a difference in their allows? I much prefer the clip ons but, because it's just easier for me to work with.
Steve

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Why clip on instead of stick ons? Is there a difference in their allows? I much prefer the clip ons but, because it's just easier for me to work with.
Steve
Steve,
Yes there is a difference.
expect a batch of COWW to be about 12 BHN,
and a batch of SOWW to be about 6 BHN.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Some people will smelt all WW together, and the Hardness will depend on the amount of SOWW in the mix.

[BCB]

See post #12...

I chronographed the WC-872 loads...

47 grains ~ 1815 fps
48 grains ~ 1879 fps
49 grains ~ 1924 fps

My WC-872 is from Pat's Reloading and the keg says it is slower than H-870...
(My plastic jug does not have a lot # on it)

Not True, at least when I compare actual chronographed fps with fps QL predicts using H-870 powder...

Good-luck...BCB

[Char-Gar]

See post #12...

I chronographed the WC-872 loads...

47 grains ~ 1815 fps
48 grains ~ 1879 fps
49 grains ~ 1924 fps

My WC-872 is from Pat's Reloading and the keg says it is slower than H-870...
(My plastic jug does not have a lot # on it)

Not True, at least when I compare actual chronographed fps with fps QL predicts using H-870 powder...

Good-luck...BCB

The last and only time, I put a 30-40 Krag load over a chrono, 50/WC872/210 CGC went 1998 out of a 24 inch Japchester 95. My powder came from GIBrass. I bought 64 lbs of the stuff.

WC872 is from pulled down 20mm Vulcan rounds. It is impossible to get enough powder into a rifle case to get into red line pressures.

[BCB]

That velocity sounds about right as compared to the velocity I chronographed from my rifle…

I didn’t go 50 grains of WC-872 as I am using Graf brass. It has less internal capacity then Remington brass by 3.7 grains of water. Fifty grains of WC-872 fills the case almost to the mouth. I suppose that could be compressed, but I am getting good results, at least at short distances so far, with the 49 grain charge. It is just touched by the base of the 311-202-RN…

I also have used WC-860 for cast in the 30-30 Winchester and the 7-30 Waters—both in Super 14” Contenders. Hit 12” square steel plates at 300 yards from my bench. Shoot, wait what seems like a minute (!) and then hear the clang…

Good-luck…BCB

[smkummer]

I am having excellent results with Lyman 311644 (190 grain) as cast and I seat the gas check with a lee 314 sizer so I doubt I am doing any sizing. I don't know if I ever slugged the bore but was aware of larger than normal 30 cal bores. That bullet is water dropped WW alloy which should be about 20 BHN. About 21 gains of 2400 for a sweet shooting accurate 200 yard load. I was all ready to shoot it in a Roosevelt CMP match but it got rained out.

[Seabee1960]

I bought dozens of molds and shot way through too much lead before I came across a very good load for my Hi-wall in 30-40 Government. I use either a Lyman 311284 or a Hoch nose pour 310-205 and 18 and 1/2 grains of Reloader 7. This is the perfect Krag load. Size the bullets to .002 over grove diameter and you will have yourself a tack driver.