Well, the 357 is gone...

[sniper]

It just had too many problems to be economical to fix. So, now I am looking for a new revolver. Rough duty, but it's gotta be done!:p

My choices have narrowed down to the Smith 686 3 or 4", 66 2 3/4" or the Ruger GP 100, or Match Champion, if I can't find the 3" TALO Wiley Clapp special edition. It won't happen often, but I can carry a 4" revolver concealed very easily, but am somewhat recoil sensitive, so the 3" J frame is not a contender. To shoot up all of the several thousand cast and Plated boolits I have accumulated through the years, I am going to standardize on ~.38 Spl +P levels loads for fun/carry, and experiment with full wadcutters @~ 800 fps for SD purposes.

I had considered going to 9mm, but as I already have the reloading equipment for .38/357, and I like the caliber. While I was at the shooting range Wednesday, I met a fellow from Montana, and he had a family of Smiths...688, 60, and an aluminum-frame snubby. He offered to let me shoot his 6 inch 686, and I was in LOVE! :-P

Problem was, he didn't want to sell it! 8-) Now: I can buy any of the new revolvers I want, but will I be better served by waiting and looking for older, pre-lock Smiths, or an older Ruger, even if I have to pay almost what I would for a newly-manufactured gun? A local gun store has an '87-88 GP 100 that looks to be in pretty good shape. If I pass on that, it will be looking at LGS and gun shows for a good replacement. I don't feel really good about Gunbroker, and sight unseen type of deals.

I am definitely no expert, but all of the Smiths and Rugers I looked at today appeared to my relatively uneducated eye, well-made, with no visible dings, goobers or other nasties. Given the constant complaining about quality levels of current Smith and Ruger offerings, is it better to go for older, well-maintained shooters?

Thanx

[HATCH]

Get a 686 full lug 3 or 4 inch.
Prelock. You will not regret it.

[tazman]

I vote for a 686-3 or 4 with a 6 inch barrel or longer. Very accurate and fine shooting revolvers. I have a 686-3 (8 & 3/8 inch barrel)that is the most accurate handgun I own.

[Petrol & Powder]

WOW, If I didn't know better I would think you were trying to start a GP-100 vs 686 thread :kidding:

There are plenty of good used guns out there.

You're going to get a LOT of "Well I own a ___________" type responses.

Sounds like you have a decent idea about what you want, which is good. TAKE YOUR TIME !

I might stay away from the K-frame (model 66) if you intend to shoot a lot of magnum loads.

[sniper]

Well, the .357 is gone, Part II;

P&P....NO! Definitely do not wish or intend a Smith vs. Ruger flame war. Just seeking information from those who may know far more than I.

Presently, I am using Unique, Universal, Trail Boss and 2400 for my reloads. Since I started reloading in another lifetime, I have tried to use bulkier powders that will make under or double charges obvious. The "Skeeter Load" of 13.5 gr. 2400/158 SWC in .38 brass is a little hairy for this child, even in 357 brass but, it do fill the case nicely! ;-)

I am looking for a powder or powders that have a little more case-filling capacity, (loft, bulk?) and I won't be loading full-snort 357s; more like .38 Special +P, or a tad bit more. TB is bulky, O yes, but may not produce the wanted velocity.

I have thought about Red Dot, Herco, and the new Alliant Sport Pistol, although the published charges are small...more on the order of HP-38. Does anyone have a recommendation?

Thanx!

[wbrco]

HS-6 or BlueDot. Both will show a double charge in a .38. HS-6 meters better, but is a bit more expensive.

Just got done putting 6.4 gr of BlueDot under 358429's. Will let you know how they do.

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[Jon K]

Look at Smith 627, I've had lots of others, but that's the one I like and kept, the only other I have and won't sell is Smith 1917.

[bpatterson84]

4" L-frame is the quintessential perfect 357. Buy with confidence, especially the SSR model!

[osteodoc08]

As much as I love my Rugers, my vote would be for a 586 or 686 if you plan on shooting a bunch. If shooting less than that, a nice model 19. All prelock of course.!

[CIC]

686 vs GP100 is a tough choice. In the end they are both great guns. Wish I was faced with the same dilemma. Good luck and lets us know what you pick, with lots of pictures.

[murf205]

198128
As much as I love my Rugers, my vote would be for a 586 or 686 if you plan on shooting a bunch. If shooting less than that, a nice model 19. All prelock of course.!

What he said...especially about the 586. Love my 4".

[Petrol & Powder]

I was just kidding, but these types of threads tend to devolve into Ford v. Chevy.

I load and shoot more 38 Special than anything else. It is by far my favorite cartridge.

The OP mentioned several possibilities, including a 3" L-frame and a 3" GP-100 variant. I've had a long love affair with 3" barreled 38/357 DA revolvers. The 3" barrel provides an excellent balance between ease of carry (portability) and performance (sight radius, velocity). They have a lot going for them.
In a medium sized frame such as the L-framed S&W 686 or the GP-100, that 3" tube makes the gun just a little more holster friendly.
Both platforms are excellent guns.

Other than the standard arguments about the S&W having a better trigger; both platforms are outstanding guns.
The Ruger trigger isn't as bad as many claim and it can easily be improved to rival the newer Smiths. Both guns are plenty strong.

As for a 4" barrel, that's also a good option. A 4" barreled, DA revolver chambered in 38/357 may be the most all-around useful firearm you will ever encounter. The 4" tube has the benefit of a little more sight radius than a 3" barrel but is still short enough to be holster friendly.
A 6" barrel is just too long for daily carry. The 6" revolvers are dedicated target & hunting guns and really not my favorites. They're great for specialized work but cumbersome the rest of the time.

OK, that's out of the way.

========================================

I'm not big on new guns. There are some great used guns out there.
One of the best shooting .357 magnums I ever owned was a used police trade in 681. A friend sold it to me for $200 and I felt so guilty that I eventually sold it back to him.
I've had other L-frames but that well used 681 was the best.
I've also had a pile of GP-100's and have whittled that collection down a bit. The GP is a far better gun than many folks want to believe.

There's another possibility out there for the OP and one that I hope the OP strongly considers:
One can still occasionally find a like new Ruger Six series (Security-Six, Service-Six or Speed-Six). They are fantastic guns!
The size of a K-frame S&W with the strength of a L-frame. And, they shoot well !

My advice = decide on EXACTLY what you want before you shop and then seek out that exact gun at a price you can live with.
Never, Never, Never, make a gun purchase decision based on the gun that happens to be in a display case. Know exactly what you want before you shop and don't deviate from that plan simply because something is available. Those types of impulse decisions rarely yield what you really want.

Good Luck

[Lefty Red]

Get a 686 full lug 3 or 4 inch.
Prelock. You will not regret it.

2nd this!


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[Petrol & Powder]

As for powder selection, I've put a lot of different powders into 38 Special casings. It's an incredibly versatile cartridge.
But, there clearly are some winners:
HP-38 [AKA ww231]
Bullseye
Unique
CFE Pistol
AA#2
AA#5
700x

Out of those winners, ww231 (HP-38) is the stand out. It does it all in a 38 Special from target loads up to +P loads. I started with ww231 and always ended up coming back to it.

Unique is a useful powder but it's not totally "powder measure" friendly. For that reason I tend to avoid it in rounds that I load on a progressive press. I'll use it with a stand alone powder measure and a single stage press where I can visually examine each charged case but it makes me too nervous in a progressive press. (I know many people use it in progressives and I not saying that's a bad idea - it's just me).Same is true for 700x.

Bullseye will get you to the lower target velocities with the least amount of powder. In terms of rounds per pound of powder, Bullseye is the economical winner. HP-38 comes in a close second. I'm sure there are others as well.

For magnum loads it's simple: Magnum = ww296 [AKA H110]

I'm a believer in letting magnums be magnums and doing everything else with the Specials. So if I need a magnum it's a near max charge of H110 and we're done. Otherwise, I can probably find a load within the pressure range of the Specials or +P Specials that will do the job nicely. I don't load light magnums.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Just kicking this out there but I have a S&W 686-3 6" barrel it's a Great range / HD gun but even if it had a 3" barrel on it
I would still pick my Ruger SP101 as a carry gun

[rintinglen]

I'd go wth a 4 incher, in fact I did. I've a S&W M-19 and a Colt Python to do my bidding. But I dare say that there is no bad choice between a S&W 686 and a Ruger GP 100. However, if you come across a Ruger Security Six, don't ignore it. They're fine guns.

[rintinglen]

I'd go wth a 4 incher, in fact I did. I've a S&W M-19 and a Colt Python to do my bidding. But I dare say that there is no bad choice between a S&W 686 and a Ruger GP 100. However, if you come across a Ruger Security Six, don't ignore it. They're fine guns. I like my Service Six very much.

[Petrol & Powder]

LUCKYDAWG13 - That's sound logic. If I had a choice between carrying a 3", 6 round, GP-100 vs. a 2.25", 5 round SP101; I would pick the smaller/lighter SP101 every day and twice on Sunday.

[dverna]

P&P has given some good advice....mirrors my opinions anyway on your choices.

My next pistol will be a 9mm revolver. More powerful than .38+P, and plenty of cheap brass.

[475AR]

I know it is not one of the guns you stated you were looking for but look at the Dan wesson 715. It covers all you are looking for and allows you to change barrels. I currently do not have a DW 357 but the last one I had shot great (cast, jacketed and plated) with all barrels from 2.5" to 8" and swapping barrels takes a couple of minutes. They are avaliable new or used and if you pickup 4" barreled gun to start you can add barrels later. Also all of the DW's I have shot have had great triggers from the get go.
Just a thought and another option.

[Murphy]

I'm a .357 addict. All the way from J frames to N frames. Skeeter seemed to believe the S&W 5" Model 27 the best 'all around' .357 made. Of course I have mine and enjoy it. I also have K frames and my L frame. I carried an L frame (early model 686 no dash) as a duty gun and put 10K through it in less than a year practicing.

When it comes to S&W .357's, one would be hard pressed to beat the 4" L frame. I'd miss my other .357's but if I had to part with them and keep just one? Which, is something I hope to never have to do. I would most likely wind up keeping the 686. The cylinder length is great as it allows you to seat a #358429 in the crimp groove (as you have discovered). The added muzzle weight is just enough to help keep me on target for quick follow up shots if needed.

Good luck in your search!

Murphy

[Art in Colorado]

The answer is always the same. A 4 inch 686-3 or 686-4.

[Butler Ford]

The only mention of the one closest to meeting your criteria was in your original post! S&W 66, slim, trim, lighter weight, relatively easily concealed, handles full bore ammo without the punishment of the small frames. I do in fact have Rugers & S&Ws from your list. The 66 is pretty much the cream of the crop for your stated uses.

BF

[9.3X62AL]

If your load levels are going to be primarily in the 38 Special +P ballpark, a K-frame S&W 357 Magnum (Models 13, 19, 65, 66) will be fine for your uses. For full-on Magnum shooting, the S&W 686, Ruger GP-100 or Security/Speed-Six, and (sleeper alert) Colt Mk III/V Troopers will last forever. The Ruger SP-101 5-shot will hold up to full-on 357s just fine, but can be a handful for me with the OEM stocks. Since concealment figures in to the game, the SP-101 x 3-1/16" might be just what the doctor ordered for you. Lots of choices, new and used.

[wbrco]

The Ruger SP-101 5-shot will hold up to full-on 357s just fine, but can be a handful for me with the OEM stocks. Since concealment figures in to the game, the SP-101 x 3-1/16" might be just what the doctor ordered for you. Lots of choices, new and used.

^^^ The pachmayr Double Diamonds help a lot, but full mag will still be a handful. That said, that's my personal cc firearm.

But be prepared, the groove sight is not target grade...



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[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Lots of choices, and not too many wrong ones:kidding:.....my suggestion is to shoot samples from your choice list and shoot those as much as you can. Then pick the best fitting/feeling/shooting/(and lastly) accurate revolver you find. I say accurate lastly as this is usually easily rectified with a change in load choice.

And if, by chance, the one you choose doesn't quite fit the bill.....no worries; there are other choices out there to be had.

[ghh3rd]

My S&W 686 Plus 3" arrives at my FFL tomorrow :-). I didn't have any preconceived notions of what revolver I wanted ... I just started comparing different brands/models and decided on it. I feel like a kid on Christmas eve!

[Low Budget Shooter]

Gun - don't rule out old blued/wood Taurus 66. I like my 3" very much. They are quite inexpensive compared to your other options.
Powder - I started using Red Dot when it was the only thing available. Now I like its performance (similar to Bullseye) plus it is very easy to identify visually and somewhat fluffy/hard to double charge without knowing it.

[Groo]

Groo here
If you can see your way clear to a new gun.
The S&W M-66 2 3/4 in 357.
Not too big ,not too heavy, not too long.
A true K frame but with the problems removed.
Ps I am a sucker for a 3in, now +- 1/4in as I got an M-69 2 3/4in 44.

[smkummer]

9.3X62AL beat me to the punch, if you find a deal on a Colt MKIII trooper, its in the same size category as the L frames or GP100 and you can seat Lyman's 358429 in the crimp groove with the Colt, its worth a look. MKV troopers are the same action as the King Corbra but rarer and the market now appears to know this so they are almost impossible to find for a reasonable amount these days. As stated before, the K frame for what your doing and the amount of shooting (38 vs .357) your doing would be my choice.

[Walkingwolf]

I have two Smiths with the IL, I don't use it but, they have never caused a issue. In fact of all the complaining I have never seen a legitimate issue posted with the IL. I would not let the IL stop me from buying a new Smith, both mine are exceptional. I personally would rather not have the full lug though, I have a GP100 6 inch with the full lug, and don't like it anywhere near as much as my 4 inch GP100 police trade in with the half lug. The balance of the half lug is perfect. That is why I went with the Smith 625 PC, instead of the 625 JM. Personally if I bought a new Smith for carry it would probably be the 66, perfect carry gun, IMO.

As it stands now my carry has been a police trade in model 64, for the loads I carry it is perfect. Before I got her my carry was mostly the GP100 with the half lug.

[Leadmelter]

357 mag will live forever.
Leadmelter
MI

[robg]

I had an early 686 with 6 inch barrel my wife had the 4 inch with pachmayr presentation grips on mine I've long fingers my wife had finger groove type great guns great trigger pulls especially double action

[54bore]

I have no experience with the particular S&W mentioned, I do know the GP-100 fairly well, it is currently the only handgun i own, I've owned a few GP-100s over the years. I went with a Talo Exclusive this last one in hopes that QC would be better, and it was. I will say the GP-100 is a rock solid durable revolver, but with all of the Quality Control issues with Ruger, I think i would look more toward the S&W these days.

[DakotaElkSlayer]

Have you thought about the Ruger SP101? With a set of Hogue grips, it feels great in the hand. As for the 686 vs GP100, both are great guns. Traditionally, many people forked over the extra coin for the 686 since it had a better trigger out of the box. Today, it is a different story... Some of those GP's have an outstanding trigger out of the box. I would go Ruger and keep trying out the triggers until you find a great one.

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[jmort]

How about the new SP101 Match Champion with the full lug 4" barrel
That might be the ticket

[DakotaElkSlayer]

http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101MatchChampion/models.html

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[Plate plinker]

686 is a good piece. I myself would like a 929.

[PerpetualStudent]

I was faced with a similar choice (686 vs gp100). I chose the gp100 based mainly on the trigger (personal preference, plenty of people prefer S&W's, I just thought it was a bit 2 stagey). Then at a gun show for the same price point I ran across a Dan Wesson with a 6 in barrel that pointed as naturally for me as the 4 in barrels in 686 and gp100. And that one wound up filling the niche.

I don't have any other barrels but if you're looking for barrel versatility the Dan Wesson's are worth a look.