View Full Version : The workmen in the vineyard
Matthew 20;1-16
“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 and said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. 5 Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.’
8 “So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’ 9 And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius. 11 And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, 12 saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’ 13 But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’ 16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.
Jesus told this parable to teach . What is the meaning of it ?
Pine Baron
06-11-2017, 09:05 AM
Basically, you get paid by the job, not by the hour.
Another way of looking at it. The reward is based on conviction (contract) not time or effort.
Also, mind your own business and your business will be taken care of.
YMMV.
Ickisrulz
06-11-2017, 09:55 AM
The teaching of the parable is the reward for faithfulness to opportunity.
Everyone responded when called. None of the laborers were lazy or avoiding work. The reason that some worked for a shorter time period is they had not yet had the opportunity. All laborers were paid based on their favorable reaction to the vineyard owner's offer of employment, not how much they accomplished.
This parable was in response to Peter's question about what he and his fellow disciples would receive after sacrificing so much to follow Jesus. Jesus said they would receive positions in the coming kingdom. But they were not to forget others would be rewarded too based on their response to opportunities. Often these people will work for shorter periods or have less impact in the world but receive similar positions as the Apostles.
Two very good answers . Who does the landowner symbolize in this parable ? Who is the landowner ?
Wally
06-11-2017, 01:01 PM
If I may interject, perhaps this passage of the bible answers the question as to the meaning to the parable: (Luke 15:28~31)
28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’
31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”
Who is the landlord symbolize.... God the Father....
Thank you ! I believe you are 100% correct !
OH ! Thank you for bringing up the prodigal ,should have complimented you using another parable to give your answer .
Ickisrulz
06-11-2017, 01:22 PM
Not every aspect of a parable is meant to symbolize someone or something. A parable is intended to teach one specific lesson. We cannot go beyond what is being taught or we will get the wrong idea.
I would agree that in this particular parable is is easy to see the owner of the vineyard hiring workers as God and the employees are those who answers his call. I also agree that in the parable of the Prodigal Son it is easy to see the father as God.
However, when you look at parables such as the Unrighteous Steward (Luke 16) there is no way to see symbolism. The story is just meant to show that the unsaved use money to advance their cause better than those faithful to God. It is a story of contrast.
In the Parable of the Unrighteous Judge are we really supposed to see God symbolized in the judge? Absolutely not. It is a story of contrast teaching one lesson. The contrast is between the motivations and actions of God versus those of the judge and therefore how we should pray. We don't need to hound God day and night.
You said a mouthful . You can explain if you feel it necessary but your getting into a broader topic . All parables are not comparable but in this case I think it will fly ? The Prodigal parable teaches a different lesson . But feel free to express your thoughts .
Ickisrulz
06-11-2017, 01:51 PM
You said a mouthful . You can explain if you feel it necessary but your getting into a broader topic . All parables are not comparable but in this case I think it will fly ? The Prodigal parable teaches a different lesson . But feel free to express your thoughts .
I am not clear on what you mean about the prodigal parable teaching a different lesson.
I will reiterate though that parables should be taken as a whole and not dissected beyond what Jesus explained, if he did so. If you understand how to interpret one parable, you can use this skill for all of them.
We are working on it ..in progress .
What of the offer of one denarius ! They all received the same pay . What in actuality does the one denarius represent ?
GhostHawk
06-11-2017, 10:46 PM
I guess I go back to my farming roots.
Those who started early agreed to work for the whole day for a set price. A fair price or they would not have agreed.
Those who started late still contributed. Would the harvest have been complete that evening without them? Would quality have been lost?
It is not IMO about how much an hour they were paid.
It is about is the harvest gathered in.
If he had not gone back to the market, would it have taken another day to finish? Two more? So is it about work they did not get to complete that they "thought" they had coming?
But there was no mention of the next days work.
We as a people live in a world where all wages are routinely figured on a by the hour basis. Not on a work completed basis.
If the landown gets all his grapes harvested on a single day. Will he not have a more uniform product? Is it not then worthwhile to him to spend some extra coin for that?
It is not about how long we work. Do we do the masters bidding? Do we harvest? Do we tend his flock? Feed his sheep?
To GOD be the glory.
1johnlb
06-12-2017, 01:22 AM
What of the offer of one denarius ! They all received the same pay . What in actuality does the one denarius represent ?
The Reward
What does the day in this parable represent ?
What does the marketplace represent ?
USMC87
06-12-2017, 09:12 AM
Market place is the world. God calls who He will, when He wills to reveal Christ to them.
Some complained to the landowner about their pay/reward for their time and labor . Why when they knew in advance the offer made and agreed to it ?
Wally
06-12-2017, 09:55 AM
It has to do with our human nature...would we not have preferred to work one hour and get the same "reward" pay as those that worked all day? Also, (perhaps) those that worked all day probably made a big effort to find a job and work at it--those that came later were more like opportunists. As in the Prodigal son parable...the loyal and faithful son made a good point; most of us would agree with his logic.
What does this last line mean ? You will have to use more than one word to give it definition .
16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.
(Would be good and beneficial if more than one person gave an explanation in their own words)
Ickisrulz
06-12-2017, 11:21 AM
It has to do with our human nature...would we not have preferred to work one hour and get the same "reward" pay as those that worked all day? Also, (perhaps) those that worked all day probably made a big effort to find a job and work at it--those that came later were more like opportunists. As in the Prodigal son parable...the loyal and faithful son made a good point; most of us would agree with his logic.
The people hired later had not been working because they could not find work. They weren't lazy or opportunists. They didn't even demand a certain amount of money.
"6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.’"
Like I said in post #3, this parable is about faithfully responding to God's call of service and a position of authority in the afterlife. It has nothing to do with teachings on human nature or salvation. The parable answered the disciples' questions concerning how they would be rewarded for following Jesus. Jesus warned that many would come after them, serve shorter periods of time, but be rewarded with positions of responsibility for their response to the call.
Ickisrulz
06-12-2017, 11:35 AM
What does this last line mean ? You will have to use more than one word to give it definition .
16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.
(Would be good and beneficial if more than one person gave an explanation in their own words)
Christians responding to God's call for service will be evaluated. Just because they did something for a long time, doesn't mean they did well.
The Last will be First: Some people who responded to God's call later in life but served faithfully and effectively will be placed in positions of authority in the next life.
The First will be Last: Some people who responded to God's call early in life but did horribly will not be placed in positions of authority.
"Many are called but few are chosen": The best manuscripts omit this sentence. It looks like a gloss explaining what has just been said. Jesus might have said it though. Either way it sums up the previous idea. Many people are called to service, but not everyone will do well and be chosen for certain positions in the coming age.
1johnlb
06-12-2017, 01:03 PM
I think here the ones complaining about having enduredthe heat of the day are the old covenant Isrealite's. They were the first to be made the promise of entering into His rest/reward.
The day could just as well be, the length of time from Adam until the end or just new covenant but I'm more inclined to believe it's from the time of law, because unto them was the promise, made to Abraham.
The work was just simply, belief/faith as outlined in Hebrews 3, 4 and the whole book pretty much.
So to answer your question in my opinion of why are the first last and the last first. Is because no man will be justified by the works of the law but by faith and the new covenant believer came at the last hour, after the heat of the day ( law fulfilled by Jesus ). In Christ, we are instantly made first.
Wally
06-12-2017, 01:13 PM
Very well said....I admit that I am mistaken with my analysis of the meaning.
The people hired later had not been working because they could not find work. They weren't lazy or opportunists. They didn't even demand a certain amount of money.
"6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.’"
Like I said in post #3, this parable is about faithfully responding to God's call of service and a position of authority in the afterlife. It has nothing to do with teachings on human nature or salvation. The parable answered the disciples' questions concerning how they would be rewarded for following Jesus. Jesus warned that many would come after them, serve shorter periods of time, but be rewarded with positions of responsibility for their response to the call.
Some complained to the landowner about their pay/reward for their time and labor . Why when they knew in advance the offer made and agreed to it ?
The sad part is they were not complaining about their pay but the pay the others received
Many times believers start to think they earned their reward while others are undeserving
dverna
06-12-2017, 02:00 PM
Although this is a excellent parable for describing how God will judge us, it is a terrible one to guide us through life here on earth and how we interact with eachother.
If we are one of the workers who worked 12 hours and received the same reward as another who worked 1 hour, most of us will feel we have been treated unfairly, and next year we will not be first to work in the harvest. We may have learned our lesson, and negotiate a " just" level of compensation, or elect to not work and let the landowner lose his harvest. In the real world, the landowner will suffer a larger loss with an unharvested crop than the worker who loses one day's pay.
Although this is a excellent parable for describing how God will judge us, it is a terrible one to guide us through life here on earth and how we interact with eachother.
If we are one of the workers who worked 12 hours and received the same reward as another who worked 1 hour, most of us will feel we have been treated unfairly, and next year we will not be first to work in the harvest. We may have learned our lesson, and negotiate a " just" level of compensation, or elect to not work and let the landowner lose his harvest. In the real world, the landowner will suffer a larger loss with an unharvested crop than the worker who loses one day's pay.
Don everyone of us here understands what you say . But it's just not that simple , we are mortal , we are of this fallen world and we are sinners . I am not able to remove the beam from my own eye , I seek GOD's help along with everyone here to help myself . I am not fit to judge , there is only one judge and that is Jesus Christ . I will give my testimony and he will judge me . You are now one of those I depend on .
In our faith comes the responsibility of being his servant , we are to serve him above all others including ourselves . GOD does not see through the eyes of a sinner , he is perfect and his judgement is perfect . His way is not our way , our way is selfish , self indulgent , petty , vengeful , self serving , mean and childish . His 'work' is a pleasure , I have seen the transformation in myself and many others . I do not question him , he loves us and offers an eternal life with him . Faith is the key word I think .
This is not a total answer to your comment but faith that he holds the answer is the key .
dverna
06-12-2017, 07:20 PM
Charlie, I think that is the point. Some rewards/gifts are priceless. Say eternal life? How many eternal lives goes one need to earn----one should suffice.
So if a "worker" earns that over a life time of service or a much shorter time, serving The Lord, the reward is given.
Now, monetary rewards are much different. More money allows he who earned it to buy more food or goods for his family.
Put another way. If the landowner was giving the workers a lifetime of food, no one would complain, if they worked twelve hours or one.
This parable does not serve to guide us to as to how to be fair to our brothers here on earth.
Just my two cents.....but I am eager to learn.
If we truly love our brothers as we love ourselves, we will be happy our brothers were able to find work and receive a day's pay.
If we truly love our brothers as we love ourselves, we will be happy our brothers were able to find work and receive a day's pay.
Agreed Ronnie , It's a blessing to have one another , makes it more bearable and enjoyable !
GhostHawk
06-12-2017, 08:49 PM
Don I see what you are saying, but do not completely agree with it.
Using myself as an example. I came late to his work. Yet I work well and faithfully as I can. Should I be given less than someone who came early into his work but accomplished no more?
It is not about the time spent. It is about doing his work, bringing in the harvest. It is about being in his will, doing what he would have us do. At least that is the way I see it.
It can be hard, we are used to looking at things in a very worldly way.
Jesus would have us look in a different way.
I make no claims for total understanding, or for being a bible scholar.
I'm just an ol farm boy with a desire to keep my feet on the ground and a strong leaning toward honesty and an interest in people. I can say the Holy Spirit is sitting on my shoulder watching me type this but how could I ever prove it? You can't. It s is not possible.
A tree shall be known by its fruits. That which sends forth good fruit will be pruned and encouraged. That which puts forth bad fruits will be cut down and put into the fire.
That is the test by which we shall know who is right, just, honest, and who is not. Right?
He also says that He is the vine and we are the branches. And branches which put forth no good fruit again will be trimmed.
Now think of that parable again, forget about the money, and the time.
Neither are the root of this.
Doing his work, that is what is important. Faith and belief yes, but good works in his name also. Or come judgement day you may hear "I knew you not"
Jesus asked Peter three times. "Do you love me?" At the end Peter became upset. You know my heart better than I do. And his answer, to his rock. "Feed my sheep"
Would you be a rock like Peter? Feed his sheep. To God be the glory.
God Loves you Don, and I am learning to also, brother. Be well.
I have learned much and enjoyed all the comments . There are still many parables and the lessons our Lord gave are always like new to me . Thank you all .
To me this parable isn't that deep. salvation is a gift of God.he gives it freely to all he chooses. Those who except this gift humbly,will will be exalted in heaven. those who ecepted it self righteously will be last in heaven.
dverna
06-13-2017, 08:59 AM
GH, I am the least learned one here when speaking of the Bible.
I have no disagreement if the parable applies the doing His work.....God's. And how to live our life in service to Him
It is a poor parable if applied to doing his work.....the landowner. And how we conduct our lives with other men. In this case, those we work for, or those we employ.
I look to the Bible for guidance on both. In this case, the parable falls short.
I am struggling still. I only accepted Jesus a short....very short time ago.
To all, I appreciate your patience.
claude
06-13-2017, 02:44 PM
I disagree with you Ronnie, but not vehemently. To me this parable is about work, harvest actually as GhostHawk pointed out,where as salvation as you aptly pointed out is a gift, and cannot be earned in this age. Please don't think I'm aiming a finger at your eye, it just struck me to delineate between the two.
Gary
claude
06-13-2017, 03:00 PM
For many are called, but few chosen.
My take is not that of the many called, few are chosen. My take is there are those who are chosen, foreordained, and there are those who are called, the many. The foreordained being less in number than the called, hence the few. Two separate groups, same destination.
Gary
GhostHawk
06-13-2017, 09:38 PM
Don't give up Don, I suspect I am not much better.
I have stuck a toe in it, but I always end up falling asleep or looking for something else.
My grandmother was a great bible scholar in her way. She attended bible study weekly for over 70 years that I know of. I asked her one day just what can truly be said about what the bible is. Her answer still rings clear in my mind.
"The Bible, is a history of Mankind's belief in one particular God, and his Son.
You can make all the claims you want of divine inspiration, but that is what you can prove. The rest, its on faith, and you have to decide if you will make that leap or not."
For a series of books written from 2 to 6 thousand years ago it manages to stay pretty relevant.
I believe. I believe because the Lord God Almighty and his Son and the Holy Spirit has touched my life, over and over and over again. Why?
This I do not know. But I believe. And as a result of that belief I try, and I try again, and I get up and try harder. Reason enough perhaps.
I disagree with you Ronnie, but not vehemently. To me this parable is about work, harvest actually as GhostHawk pointed out,where as salvation as you aptly pointed out is a gift, and cannot be earned in this age. Please don't think I'm aiming a finger at your eye, it just struck me to delineate between the two.
Gary
Good to see you Claude. i took your post as it was meant. No worrys I verry much respect your opinion and appreciate it
It may be because of where I'm at in my walk still a bit behind. but What I see shines like a new penny ( that dosen't mean I'm right ) the point of contention is the wages i.e.salvation and the lesson is salvation is from God it's his and he can give it to whomever he wants.
He calls some of us early in life while others he calls on their death beds and we all receve the same salvation regardless of the work we put in. The last verse reminds us that there will be a pecking order in heaven "the last shall be first and the first last" " the meek shall inherit the earth"
As far as worldly applications i have a buddy a fine Christian brother but he has a chip on his shoulder when it comes to the workplace. He believes his implorer should be fair when it comes to money workload raises and such. And I often remind him the owner determins what is fair and right. Not him.
all this belongs to God.and he says what is right. not us with our limited understanding.
.???? But hay what do I know ???? I do know this one day in heaven we will fully understand.
GhostHawk
06-14-2017, 08:12 AM
Amen RL69, Amen.
Ickisrulz
06-14-2017, 03:41 PM
For those who think this parable is about salvation, look at Matthew Chapter 19:29-30. Jesus is addressing what his workers will receive for their service in addition to eternal life. This parable is taking about rewards for service.
I can buy in to that. it seams to fit better because our rewards in heaven are earned.whereas or salvation isn't.
Nomatter if the wages are salvation are it the rewards we store up in heaven. They are from God and he gives them out how he chooses to whom he chooses no matter if we work all day or just for a short time ????
I can buy in to that. it seams to fit better because our rewards in heaven are earned.whereas or salvation isn't.
Nomatter if the wages are salvation are it the rewards we store up in heaven. They are from God and he gives them out how he chooses to whom he chooses no matter if we work all day or just for a short time ????
You are correct . Salvation and rewards (crowns) will be determined by GOD . Part of our faith is that he will sort this out .
Blackwater
06-16-2017, 01:28 PM
At least one of the things that can be extracted from this parable is that if a person commits to Jesus in his last moments here, even though his former life be wicked and willful to the hilt, yet he also may be admitted into Heaven. Salvation is an either/or proposition. Either we accept it, or we reject it. And it doesn't matter how long we spent on either side of the issue. What MATTERS is how we wind up, whenever God calls us home. Truly, God's forgiveness and grace are wondrous things. We have our values, and God has His. His rule ours, or at least should, for those who truly believe in Him and serve Him. I will always be awed by His ways and His wisdom!
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