98 mauser shortened by 1.75" in 45 ACP

[colonelsanders]

I got a hold of a badly pitted 98 mauser reciever about 13 years ago, and a full set of mauser parts from my dad.

Around this time I read an article on a 45 acp conversion by Rhineland arms.

http://www.troupsystems.com/mauser45kits.htm

Always seemed like when I had a few extra dollars the kits were out of stock.

I decided to remove enough length to eliminate the thumb notch and ended up cutting 1.75" out of the reciever.

I made all the cuts but didn't have a tig welder andbwas still going to college so the project just sat.

I picked up parts here and there as time went on.

The stock is a Boyds display stock to mount a scope to and at $15 the price was right to practice on.

The barrel was a green mountain special on sale 4 years ago.

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/45-blank-s-45-acp-heavy-raw-blank-17-5-x-1-25/

[colonelsanders]

In the 12 years since I started I spent a lot of time and energy tooling up my garage shop to be able to make almost anything I like.

Major tools include a genuine bridgeport mill, 10 thread cutting lathe with a toolpost grinder, a surface grinder, rig welder and Oct acetylene torch set and full tooling (mostly to go with it).

At this point i felt pretty confident that I would be able to motor through and get this aged project complete.

I pulled out the reciever halves and decided to weld em up!

I will post pics and continue the thread when I sort out how to post the pics I took.......

[EMC45]

I love it

[colonelsanders]

The receiver halves were welded together using a TIG Welder with water flowing through the receiver ring locking lug area to prevent changing the temper. I used Brownells Nickel Steel welding rods. I need to go back and fill a few spots, but overall they are solid welds, and I am Happy with the results.

I mock assembled the action and was quite pleased with the look. On to welding up the bolt.

[colonelsanders]

I made up a sleeve from a piece of hardware store brass pipe. This sleeve served two proposes. 1) I made the sleeve a tight fit to the ID of my bolt body to aid in the alignment. 2) Allowed me to flow water down the center of the bolt body to keep the locking lugs cool.

It worked out really well and other than some final filling and finish work I am happy with the result. At no time during the process was I unable to keep my hand on the front of the bolt.
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[adcoch1]

I have always wanted to do this, something about a stubby mauser action just makes sense... Great project.

[EMC45]

Awesome.

[Wolfer]

I've always wanted to do this. Very interesting!

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I love it

Me, too!

[colonelsanders]

Next up was fitting and contouring the barrel. The green mountain blank I purchased came in at about 1.26" OD and cleaned up to 1.25 quite nicely for the shank. Contouring the rest took a while and I made quite a pile of chips but I am happy with the result. It is a custom contour designed to please the most important person involved in this project (ME!!!!!).

11 degree target crown installed and thrown back on the receiver with my shop helper testing! Next up it to get it mounted into a stock!

[swheeler]

Very nice! I bet your shop helper will get a lot of fun out of shooting it.

[colonelsanders]

Sunk the action into the wood, pretty happy with the outcome and handy feel, it was my first time doing an inlet so I absolutely make a lot of mistakes.......... didn't help that the stock was the wrong shape and needed some smoothing, but I am happy with the feel now.

I used in-letting guide screws, Gunline barrel in-letting tools and some chisels to do the finishing fitment and my mill to rough out most of the major sinking operations.

There was a time when I allowed the fear of failure regarding portions with which I had no experience to paralyze my ability to move forward with the project. Those days are behind me and I solve the problems as I screw them up, next time will always be better. I always have another project on which I can improve my ever growing skill set.

[swheeler]

Lets see some extra crispy targets!:razz:

[725]

What a neat project!! Good for you. You are going to have a ball with it. I'd love to do one just like it. The only thing missing is money, skill, & time. :) Still, ........... the seed has been planted.

[map55b]

I have a similar project in mind. What did you do for a magazine? Sorry if I missed that.. :)

PS: I like the ST90 in the background.

[colonelsanders]

Well, as it turns out the magazine is going to be a serious problem. I had originally planned to use springfield xd 45 magazines but that won't fly....... For the same reason that the Rhineland arms conversions don't feed well...

Since the magazines are sloped, as the rounds move up, they also move forward. This is fine while the rounds are retained by the feed lips, but as soon as the round is free of the feed lips it says to jump up and forward at the same time. The instructions for the Rhineland arms conversions Aperantly say "cycle it quickly" and that would indeed seem to work, I just really dislike that option.

https://youtu.be/SInnie9wxLE

I am exploring two options to resolve this.

1) thompson smg magazines. The straight magazine and double stack double feed design will be closer the mauser feed system and I am going this gets the feeding reliability up where I want it to be. I have a 20 round on the way and it should be here next week.

2) do a weird extended extractor to "catch" the round........... Not liking this option.

[colonelsanders]

Also ordered a reamer and gauges from manson to get the barrel chambered

[map55b]

My plan is basically the same as yours, except I was going to make new bottom metal to hold a stock 1911 magazine at the correct angle. The Mauser is a control feed, so you do need to use a little vigor. From your video, I'd suggest widening the gap between the bolt face and the extractor at the base of the extractor only so that the cartridge can pop up under it. Once its started the forward motion of the bolt over the magazine the feed lips should guid it in place.

I had a similar issue when I put a .38-55 in a Type 38 Arisaka (also a control feed). Because there was almost no taper to the case I had to ensue that the cartridge popped straight under the bolt so that the bolt could push it straight into the chamber. This works just great, but you do need to operate the bolt with a little vigor (short of slamming the bolt). If you try to operate the bolt slowly the cartridge may pop in font of extractor. For those cases, I made sure the extractor could close over the rim of a chambered cartridge.

[Larry Gibson]

colonelsanders

There was a thread about Rhineland conversion a couple years back.....darned if I could find it. Anyways in it I explained how to make the M98 feed reliably from 45 ACP M1911 magazines. It's not hard to do, just have to really understand how the case rim has to make the transition from magazine to up under the extractor correctly. Once you understand that it's easy to do. I've converted 3 M98s now to 45 ACP and have another about half finished. If you want to go the M1911 magazine route then I can explain it again?

Here's a couple I've done;

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Larry Gibson

[colonelsanders]

Larry, a rundown of what's happening and what is needed to make them feed reliably would be very useful, I would much prefer to use pistol mags if possible.......... Tommy gun mags are stupidly expensive in comparison. I would greatly appreciate you taking the time to do so, and I am Aperantly not the only one running into this issue.

At this point i havent built the Mag well, so I have total control over placement and angle.

[Artful]

https://youtu.be/SInnie9wxLE


Video looks like it wants to be push feed - need to make it come up behind the claw so it's controlled round feed like Larry says.

Some links you may want to look at
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?215740-Show-Us-your-Rhinelander-45-ACP-Mauser-Conversions

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?1326-Converting-93-1916-Mauser-to-7-62x39-or-45acp

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?131079-Rhineland-45-ACP-Kit

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?169229-Rhineland-45-ACP-Kit-revisited

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?10126-Rhineland-Arms-45-ACP-45-WM-kits

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks Artful, this is the thread with my instructions; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?215740-Show-Us-your-Rhinelander-45-ACP-Mauser-Conversions

The trick is to tweak the extractor so the rim stays inside the "lips" of the bolt face as it feeds up under the extractor. If the rim gets push left in front of the lip on the left side the bullet will get cocked to the right. If not a RNFMJ or XTP type jacketed bullet it will jam into the extractor cut in the receiver ring. The rim of the cartridge must, during feeding, slip up under the extractor and be held in place against the bolt face by the extractor and lips. If so it will feed slicker than snot with any bullet style whether the bolt is thrown slow or fast. If the rim is not held in place feeding will not be reliable.

Larry Gibson

[colonelsanders]

Reamer and gauges came in from Manson Precision. These three Items represent by far the largest cost of this project so far. Should be able to get it chambered this weekend get back onto the feeding issue next week (time allowing).

[woodbutcher]

:drinks:Now this looks like a real fun project.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[colonelsanders]

Took some time this evening to document my solution to the ultra short action firing pin spring assembly and binding issues. Hopefully this will help some folks with partially completed projects.

https://youtu.be/YhS1cR_GAl8

[405grain]

Brilliant solution! I just looked at some Wolff firing pin springs for Mausers, and the ends of the spring are closed. (this means that the last coil on the end of the spring is bent flat, so that the spring will seat flatly as it's being compressed) I didn't check, but I assume that factory Mauser springs also have closed ends. When you shortened your firing pin spring, you should still have one end that's closed. If you install the spring with the closed end pressing against the spring seat on the firing pin, the spring should not be able to work it's way back through the helix, even if it does rotate. I think your idea is a very good solution.

[colonelsanders]

Made up a receiver mandrel to face the receiver ring. Now that the action is actually operable, its time to blueprint the action and get the rifle chambered. The first step is facing the receiver ring and that is now done. Next will be to square the locking lugs and face the bolt.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I also have a Rhineland Kit that is half done and on a hold until I have time and patience to make it feed.

Another way to go with this project is to make it a single shot by making a shoe/feed ramp to sit on top of the mag well.

The last 2 issues of Rifle Magazine have an article by Gil Sengal on converting a M93 Mauser to single shot .45 ACP. That is what he did.

I also have a Mauser ES340B .22 caliber single shot rifle. It feeds the round into the chamber by simply dropping a round into the open bolt and then closing the bolt. Doesn't matter it you do it fast or slow it feeds perfectly every single time and it is a controlled round feed just like the larger guns. Kimber stole the idea for one of their .22's and their bolt face looks identical to the Mauser. My gun was made in 1929 and is still in excellent condition as I have had it since 1968.

Making the magazine shoe requires cutting a tapered scallop which is heavy at the back and light in the front so that the cartridge stays angled up until well past the point of the bolt grabbing it. In other words it is completely under the extractor by the time the cartridge is all the way up the ramp.

The biggest problem with this conversion is getting it to feed. And the biggest reason is the length of the feed lips on the magazines. The cartridge is released just as it starts to go under the extractor and the tendency if the extractor misses the rim is for the nose of the cartridge to roll forward, then it is completely in front of the extractor and the bolt will not close.

The locking lug recesses are a @1/2" gap for the cartridge to fall into.

This is why the Enfield action is easier to get to run. There is no locking lug recess. the locking lugs are in the rear of the action.

Randy

Here's a pic of the open breech
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And a pic of the bolt face.
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[Von Dingo]

A few years back I handled an M1903A3, in .45 ACP that looked to be a Springfield Arsenal build from 43 or 44 (the barrel was marked as such). Ran on stripper clips. Wish I'd had the foresight to document how it fed.

I ran maybe 10 rounds through it, really cool.

[NoAngel]

Very nice!

[Bigslug]

Colonel,

On the subject of magazines. . .have you looked at actual GI 1911 magazines with the tapered (not stepped) feed lips? Checkmate is producing these new. These should do a better job of allowing the nose of the rounds to pivot upward as the extractor does its thing.

[Larry Gibson]

For the M98 to feed the stubby 45 ACP reliably the protrusion on the left side of the bolt face (opposite the extractor) is critical. Some M98 bolts do not have that protrusion and is why they are not recommended to use. Even if the rim of the case slips up under the extractor on feeding it the left side of the rim is not held in with the case head against the bolt face by that protrusion the round will cock to the right and jam.

Note how the protrusion (right side in pic) holds the rim/case head against the bolt face. It must do that as the round feeds out of the magazine or it will jam.

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Larry Gibson

[Texas by God]

The Oviedo 1916 (93 Mauser) has a pronounced bolt face protrusion that might help in the case of someone considering this project. Being a 98 man I was surprised to see this when I began my 30-30 project. Sarco has the 93 actions for sale.
Best, Thomas.