Using 45 colt carbide die to neck size 45-70

[shafer44]

So, I have read where guys are using the 45 colt sizing die to neck size 45-70. I can understand that the first .6 " of a 45-70 is the same size as the 45 colt shell. When doing this way, do you decap with the decapping pin or is it too short and you have to use another die to decap? Also, does the expander of the 45 still go inside the case of a 45-70. I am just a little confused, as I don't have the 45 colt dies right now, but will be getting some soon to load up some 45 colt shells.

[country gent]

There are some slight diffrences in 45 colt and 45-70 45 LC is a .452-.454 bullet dia 45-70 is .459-.462 depending on rifle. Brass may be thicker or thinner. The 45 LC carbide die can be used to neck size setting high enough may be hard to do as the 45-70 may actually protrude thru the threaded portion of the press head. The die can be used to size only depriming needs to take place seperatly. I use a bushing die by Meacham tool and die for 45-70, and 45-90 it has the advantage of interchangeable bushings allowing for the neck tension to be adjusted and little to no expansion needed. depending on how far down you want to size you may have 1.5" of case outsides the die still. I size to just below the wad and base of the bullet with my die and use a bushing around .480 ID normally or smaller depending on bullet dia ( Bore riding Paper Patched require a smaller bushing)

[shafer44]

ok, so even after resizing and depriming, I still need to run the shell thru my belling die, right. If i don't slightly bell, then it shaves lead when i try to seat a boolit.

[Don McDowell]

45 colt die takes a 45-70 case down to far for grease groove bullets, works alright when shooting bore diameter patched bullets.

[country gent]

You will need to bell and expand the necks up or the soft bullets will be swaged down seating into cases. A better way to get by would be to load unsized fire formed cases and just use the crimp / seat die to provide light tension. With Black powder compressed and wads the bullet seats right on the powder wad stack and will remain in place while the light crimp is applied.

[RedJackson]

Why not do it right and buy a set of Lee 45-70 dies ?

[country gent]

It can be done as the OP suggests and will work quite well with the proper care and attention. Some loads/bullets factory dies don't work well for either. One is the Bore riding Paper Patched bullets that are only .448-.451 dia, the factory dies are desighned to size for .458 bullets. These bullets require a smaller sizing die or bushing to load. Here with whats required would be the steps. Neck size to depth in 45 colt die, expand bell with appropriate sizes, Charge with powder, add over powder wads, If BP compress ( compression stem may need slight mods depending on bullets), add grease cookies additional wads and hand seat bullet onto wads, lightly crimp size neck onto bullet for tension.

[shafer44]

I guess we are not keeping up on this thread, I ALREADY use and have RCBS 45-70 dies!!! This thread was to discuss using the 45 colt die to neck size the 45-70 case. Anyway, I think I will just continue to use my RCBS sizing die backed off enough to just size the neck.
Thanks guys for the comments and suggestions.

please close this thread

[EDG]

Part of the way that you get accurate ammo is keeping the sized neck concentric to the case body.
It is easy to get a concentric sized case neck when it goes into a FL die with a long taper into the neck. If you use a 45 Colt die with a short or non existent lead in the neck may be forced off to one side during the rapid step down at the die entrance. I have a .45 ACP carbide die but I would not consider using it for a 45-70 unless I was loading blasting ammo for plinking.

[Geezer in NH]

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3058?

Personally I would buy one or the other.

[Leadmelter]

Check out a Lyman 45 short neck die. Works great
Leadmelter

[kbstenberg]

I will soon start loading for the 45/70. An I was very disappointed Lee doesn't make a collet sizing die for it. I use them for everyother aliber I load for.

[shafer44]

Like i said before, I looked at buying a specific neck sizing die like the lyman or redding, but opted to just back my FL sizing die up so that I am only sizing the neck portion. I marked a case with a magic marker, adjusted my die back down until a half inch or so of neck (the straight diameter) portion was sized. The rest of the body of the case was not sized, as the magic marker black was still on it. This seems to work fine, the boolits go in tight and i follow with a crimp.

[charlie b]

You will need to bell and expand the necks up or the soft bullets will be swaged down seating into cases. A better way to get by would be to load unsized fire formed cases and just use the crimp / seat die to provide light tension. With Black powder compressed and wads the bullet seats right on the powder wad stack and will remain in place while the light crimp is applied.

I had thought about this before with a different case (.30-30). Since neck sizing, for me, was really just to hold the bullet in place until it is crimped. Does your method provide sufficient accuracy? If the case is too large and it is roll crimped I can see a scenario where the bullet is 'allowed' to tilt in the case.

[Huvius]

I think ultimately you will want the ID of the sized case to be just perfect for the boolit to slip into it with very little pressure.
The 45 die may be too tight and as stated above may additionally squeeze your boolit down even more and it will eventually contribute to overworking your brass. If you are doing this anneal appropriately to make the neck soft.
If you are looking for an easy way to smooth out the belled case mouth and add a little tension to hold the boolit, try using a 30'06 fls die to just squeeze the mouth of the case.