Primer Explosion

[David2011]

Not sure where this should be posted so here it is in Our Town since we don't have a reloading category other than reloading equipment.

This happened 2-3 years ago and was an isolated incident. I reloaded my first cartridges in 1978 and this incident was a first. I just wanted to share. I was up on a stool changing the casefeed plate on my Dillon 650. I saw a smooth, shiny object in the bowl of the case feeder and my first thought was that I didn't remember any rivets in there. A friend was there with me and I told him what I found and shat I was doing. I picked up some hemostats, thank goodness, to try to figure out what it was. It looked like a smooth shiny rivet head. As soon as the hemostats made contact, no pressure at all, it exploded. Nope, not a rivet! After pausing a moment to regroup, I picked it off of the plastic and it was clearly a primer that had been mashed to the point that it looked nothing like a primer. My guess was that it was pre-sensitized by being completely reshaped. Maybe a static discharge set it off. No idea how it got in there outside of a case. I can only speculate that it got in the case feeder in a cartridge that had a loose pocket and came out while tumbling in the case feeder. How it got mashed to the point it no longer looked like a primer without exploding baffles me. I was fortunate that I had on eye protection and didn't touch it with a bare finger.

Not much else to say about this other than if you see anything that looks out of place or out of the ordinary in your reloading area be very cautious.

David

[GhostHawk]

I have learned the hard way that a primer which has been disfigured in any significant way is one touchy SOB.

I normally prime with a RCBS universal hand unit. Good system and I love it. But somehow when I was priming some rifle cases one came up sideways, got mashed into place that way.

When I found it, it had just had a powder charge dropped in, and a bullet seated.
As part of the final process I like to wipe the noses of my cast boolits. And I spotted the sideways primer.

So pulled the bullet, carefully. Dumped the powder.

I have a spare pin for the Lee depriming die. And a piece of 2x2 with some step drill holes drilled into each end. So the pin goes in touches the primer and BANG.

I had not even tapped it with the hammer, yet.

On contact, BANG.

But, base was on a solid surface, no powder inside, case neck is pointed up, whole assembly is at least a foot from my face. Pin took a hop. But no damage was done.

Fingers holding the case tingled for a few seconds. Then I tapped that primer out, reprimed, recharged, and reset the bullet.

But I am very very careful with any primer that has been squeezed, misshaped, or damaged.

[Idaho45guy]

I've only been reloading for less than a year and haven't had any mishaps so far. Knock on wood. I've got a bunch of spent primers laying all over the carpeted floor and I need to vacuum them up. But I also know that I've dropped a couple of live ones, too. I've heard that vacuuming them up can make them go off so I'm a bit leery of doing it.

[Rufus Krile]

Back in the Mezozoic era when I first started basic reloading, it was with the old Lee Loader that had the base and seating rod that went in the case. Got pretty good at catching that rod when it hopped about 2ft in the air when the primer popped. Being the clumsy type, I usually lost 4 or 5 primers out of a box but got plenty of practice catching the rod. Probably didn't help my flinch problem any...

[JBinMN]

I've only been reloading for less than a year and haven't had any mishaps so far. Knock on wood. I've got a bunch of spent primers laying all over the carpeted floor and I need to vacuum them up. But I also know that I've dropped a couple of live ones, too. I've heard that vacuuming them up can make them go off so I'm a bit leery of doing it.

A suggestion that might help ya..
Take an old bedsheet, place it under your reloading location folded/rolled up if ya like, and when you are in the priming stage ( or even depriming stage also if ya like)... Roll the sheet out to where it is centered on your work location. The sheet is a better way to spot what ya drop & keeps the little buggers out of the carpet fibers so they don't get hidden. Then when ya are done, roll it up & stow it til the next time. Might solve your issue with the carpet & lost little items that can go BANG.
;)

I do something similar when I am cleaning firearms & even when working on a vehicle to catch small parts so they don't hit the ground & bounce or roll off to who knows where, making me spend my time looking for the lil things instead of doing what I want to do.
-----------------------
On topic.. Never have had a primer go off on me unexpectedly, other than the little surprise ya sometimes get when testing a trigger on a new to you firearm. Hope to never have it happen when reloading though, either. I am pretty careful with those little bombs, and I reload on a tile floor, so I cringe a bit when I know they are going to hit the floor. That sheet I mentioned is a handy way to buffer the impact & slow the roll if one gets away from ya.

Thanks for sharing your story, David2011 & Thanks to GhostHawk too for his anecdote. These stories help all keep the knowledge in the back of our heads that there is a potential for some serious bad happening stuff if we are lax in our concentration in this casting & reloading stuff. It is not like painting where ya only have to worry about where the paint goes...
;)

[David2011]

I've only been reloading for less than a year and haven't had any mishaps so far. Knock on wood. I've got a bunch of spent primers laying all over the carpeted floor and I need to vacuum them up. But I also know that I've dropped a couple of live ones, too. I've heard that vacuuming them up can make them go off so I'm a bit leery of doing it.

That's a challenge on a carpeted floor. I have heard the same thing about vacuuming them but have no experiences to relate. Fortunately my loading room has a smooth concrete floor so I can use a broom. I like JB's solution.


I broke down a bunch of ammunition recently. Some was unknown, some was missing primers, a few case mouths were damages and so on. It was a full gamut of the problems you encounter reloading and with old ammuntion. Unsure if the scrap yard would accept dead primers and pretty sure they don't want live ones, I decapped all of the brass. Mostly pistol brass, it was about 6-1/2 pounds of bad cases. I ended up with a small collection of live primers, some of which are misshapen and am seriously considering mixing some epoxy and encapsulating them for disposal. They are presently just sitting in a container and are not being disturbed. While I have a healthy respect for all reloading components, primers command the most respect. I'm just plain skitty around deformed primers.

I decap live primers on a press with a Lee Universal Decapping Die so things are well contained should one pop. In almost 40 years of loading I have not popped a live primer by removing it from a case.

I did pop one in a progressive press while loading one time but I was pretty sure it was going to pop. I could feel that it was hung up and not seated properly. I still jumped. There was no chain reaction.

[Ken in Iowa]

Thanks for posting David. Accounts like yours are valuable since primer accidents are thankfully quite rare.

Lee loader explosions seem to be the most common from accounts that I have read in the forums.

Most of my primer seating is accomplished with the RCBS hand tool these days. I am very happy with it and feel fairly protected in case of an AD especially wearing eyeglasses.

[OS OK]

Exploding primers in plastic hand held priming tools is where I first heard of an exploding primer incident while loading.
It wasn't the end of the world for the guy but he did go to the emergency room for stitches in one paw. That was sobering so I went to the RCBS bench prime and am careful to insert the primer when my left hand is ...not...over the empty case.

If there is a problem as the primer transfers out of the priming tube into a shuttle where it is carried under the press for insertion through the shell plate...if there is a problem in the shuttle fill, there is a possibility that the entire tube will explode sending all the primers headed towards the ceiling and if you don't have the secondary tube, the safety tube installed around the priming tube there 'could' be problems there with shrapnel of the priming tube itself.
I just quit priming on the progressive and treat priming as it's own unique process in the shop...kinda like cleaning brass is it's own stage of reloading.

I've never had a primer incident using the universal de-priming die by Lee and have removed and reused live primers.

Wear those Safety Glasses.

[lightman]

David, be careful with those primers that you have together in that container!
I have only had one AD with a primer. I was depriming cases with a Wilson benchrest base, much like a Lee Loader and a primed case found its way into the batch of fired cases. Yes, a primer will fire from a sharp blow, from either side! It was not a big deal, but it did get my attention! I had a few specks of the compound imbedded in the callous on my finger. I was wearing safety glasses at the time.

[w5pv]

I never had a primer to go off on me but saw a picture where one did and I put the handprimer up and now use the one on the press abit slower but much more safer than the hand primer.Today is good for getting ahead of primer hulls.I do all of my loading on single stage presses one for the priming and the other for loading the charge and then going back to the first to seat the bullet.My method won't work if you are going for the quantity and need for large production of ammo.

[Porterhouse]

****!
I just had a primer that missed primer pocket and half in half crushed shape. I simply decapped and put new primer and completely forgot about the bad one, until now.
That was Wednesday. Ughhh. Hate to be a worm on nice Sunday morning...

[David2011]

David, be careful with those primers that you have together in that container!
I have only had one AD with a primer. I was depriming cases with a Wilson benchrest base, much like a Lee Loader and a primed case found its way into the batch of fired cases. Yes, a primer will fire from a sharp blow, from either side! It was not a big deal, but it did get my attention! I had a few specks of the compound imbedded in the callous on my finger. I was wearing safety glasses at the time.

I can't imagine hammering a live primer out. I have a very healthy respect for those damaged primers. That's why I think I will pour epoxy on them. It's only about 20 primers but I don't want them to chain fire. When I collected them I handled them with long tweezers.

[Idz]

Rather than encasing live primers in epoxy it may be better to kill them by soaking them in something like wd40.

[JBinMN]

I have used old motor oil. But I did not check to see how it worked. I just got rid of them to a friends "spot".

[lefty o]

oil and wd40 does not kill primers. it may make them temporarily inert, but once they dry , and they will they will go bang.

[JBinMN]

oil and wd40 does not kill primers. it may make them temporarily inert, but once they dry , and they will they will go bang.

Could be. Never "tested" the outcome.
:)
Once buried in some dirt though, like the ones I had...Either they are a land mine or they are a "inert" object. Been 10 years since I passed them on to my farming friend, with NO "Bangs" yet in that ravine, unless someone was shooting at something & expected the results.. ;)

Need to ask permission to be on the land, & the feller knows what is there...
So...I can't be certain... but, I'd bet there is more buried there that he would be worried about, than a half dozen or less oil soaked primers...
;)

Thanks for your sharing.
:)

[ghh3rd]

Those buggars travel like a boolit when they go off! I had some large unknown primers once and spotted my son's slingshot. I loaded the slingshot, turned my head the other way and lobbed one against a concrete block in the yard - kapow! Then I noticed a hole in the bedroom window about 6 feet away! Sometimes I wonder how I got to be 63 years old.

[David2011]

I believe it was Handloader that did a test a year or two ago and found that water, oil and WD-40 were all ineffective in permanently disabling primers.

[Bazoo]

Other than having a few pop when using a lee loader, I've never had a primer related bad experience, thankfully. Glad you werent harmed David.

If I had a container of primers to get rid of, I think the method I would use would be to fill the container with a flammable liquid, kerosene, or diesel, and then spread the mix over the ground, and light it. The liquid would temporarily disable the primers, and the fire would kill them permanently. If any of them did pop, it wouldnt hurt nothing.

[mold maker]

Luckily, in over 50 years I haven't had one pop. I've had several in sideways or inverted, but were safely and very gently removed without incident. I've disposed of their remains in a wood fired furnace after soaking in kerosene. Non of them poped noticably.

[mjwcaster]

I would never suggest disposing of primers with fire.

They can and will fly high, fast and far.

Years ago I disposed of a cup of spilled powder that had some primers in it by tossing it in the fire pit.
I knew the powder was no issue, didn't think much about the primers.
What can I say, I was new.

Primers were flying through the trees others bouncing off of the house.
Real issue was some got buried in the ashes and primers were going off for hours.



Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[MaryB]

I was teaching my nephew to reload 12 gauge on my pacific DL366 progressive. I told him to make sure the previous primer went in a case before pulling the handle again or you may cause an explosion. Being a 12 year old and not watching close... before I could stop him he dropped the primer tube on top of a live primer and set off a chain reaction. I still have primer bits embedded in the drywall in the ceiling. After he showered and changed his shorts he came back and said I will never do that again and he didn't. He bought a Hornady 366 about 10 years ago when he was 22 and still reloads.

[Bazoo]

I was thinking about the disposing of primers in fire, either having been soaked in liquid or not, I think a 55 gallon burn barrel would be perfect for the chore as it would keep any primers that did explode from sending shrapnel anywhere but straight up. I cant see how any primers would go off though if they had been soaked in kerosene first.

[mjwcaster]

I am not a chemist, but I do not follow the logic of soaking an explosive in an accelerant making it fire proof.

Plenty of stories of primers still going off once dried out after an oil soaking, and I think fire would work great at drying off the oil.

But what do I know.

If someone tries this let us know what happens.

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[abunaitoo]

A friend had a hole tube of primers go off.
Went right through the roof.
Nice little hole.
Never could figure why it went off.
He's been reloading for over 50 years, and it was the first time he's had a primer go off outside a firearm.
I've never had it happen to me.
Crushed a few primers, but none went off.
Deprime lots of live primers, and never had one go off.

[mold maker]

I am not a chemist, but I do not follow the logic of soaking an explosive in an accelerant making it fire proof.

Plenty of stories of primers still going off once dried out after an oil soaking, and I think fire would work great at drying off the oil.

But what do I know.

If someone tries this let us know what happens.

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

At the time it seemed the prudent thing to do. The logic was to burn them while still in the dead (oil soaked) condition. It apearently worked as there were no "explosions".
The furnace was a 1950s Montgumery Ward wood or coal fired model. The fire box is 1/4" thick steel with cast iron doors. Although it is now only backup heat, it is used every Winter to supliment on really cold days. My wood cutting days are in the past.
mm

[mjwcaster]

Mm, That is interesting.
Thanks.

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[historicfirearms]

I had one explode in my motorcycle saddle bag. Bought a box of 100 at the gun shop while on my motorcycle. They were in a plastic bag, in the Winchester 100 round pack taped shut. The motorcycle bags are fiberglass. It was a hot day and I had ridden about 50 miles when I heard a small explosion. When I got home the primers were all loose in the saddle bag but I never could find the popped primer. I guess static electricity did the deed but have no proof.

[Greg G.]

Those buggars travel like a boolit when they go off! I had some large unknown primers once and spotted my son's slingshot. I loaded the slingshot, turned my head the other way and lobbed one against a concrete block in the yard - kapow! Then I noticed a hole in the bedroom window about 6 feet away! Sometimes I wonder how I got to be 63 years old.

Right there with you on that, I'm 62 and I just figure that if there is a Patron Saint for fools and idiots I'm probably working mine overtime.:bigsmyl2:

[David2011]

The damaged and unknown primers got an epoxy marinade. I would think fairly hard to detonate now.

197229

David

[Geezer in NH]

I just throw bad ones in the wood stove same as the dud rounds found at the range they go pop no damage. They are not a pound of C4.

[Thin Man]

In my 47 years of reloading I have had 2 AD's with primers. The first was when I was inserting a primer (revolver cartridge) on my RCBS JR press with the press mounted primer arm. That was so long ago I can't even begin to guess how far back it happened. The second (around 15 years ago) was when I was using a Lee decapping base and mallet driven pin set on a rifle cartridge. YIPES that one was loud. This one got me started wearing ear muffs when removing live primers. Now I use the Lee decapping die and move the press ram slowly in the hope this will be sufficient to avoid any more disturbances.

[Silver Eagle]

Damaged, untrusted or pulled primers here get a sound smack with a hammer outside!
Had a split case once that I noticed on primed brass. Loaded that one, sans bullet or powder, in firearm and pulled the trigger on it outside. Case was crushed afterwards.
All cases that I will not reload for some reason get crushed and tossed in scrap bucket. Figure that if I will not load them, that I do not wish someone else to try.

[Lloyd Smale]

I wanted a case head with a primer in it to inlet into a set of grips once and soaked 20 ea. primers in water and in oil for 10 days and tested them. At least 75 percent of the oil soaked ones still went off and only one of the water soaked ones didn't go off.

[flyingmonkey35]

i have had two primers go pop on me with my I loadmaster. no more priming on the load master.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

[Geezer in NH]

As a former Firefighter/investigator I can state ammo in a fire is not dangerous to the FF or anyone around. PROVEN fact by NFPA and .Gov.

In classes taught to recruits I used to put ammo on a hot plate with a cardboard box over it. Plug in the hot plate and let the ammo cook off, NONE that's 0 came through the box. Did it 20 to 30 times.

Any FF saying ammo, let alone 1 little primer, is dangerous in a fire seriously lacks training. Ammo in small amounts cooks off with no damage around. I am more afraid of 1 lb propane cylinders and gas cans or gas bags set for detonation much more for good reason.

Around 1 ton of ammo and explosives military grade is another thing, Same as huge amounts of fertilizer.

[historicfirearms]

As a former Firefighter/investigator I can state ammo in a fire is not dangerous to the FF or anyone around. PROVEN fact by NFPA and .Gov.

In classes taught to recruits I used to put ammo on a hot plate with a cardboard box over it. Plug in the hot plate and let the ammo cook off, NONE that's 0 came through the box. Did it 20 to 30 times.

Any FF saying ammo, let alone 1 little primer, is dangerous in a fire seriously lacks training. Ammo in small amounts cooks off with no damage around. I am more afraid of 1 lb propane cylinders and gas cans or gas bags set for detonation much more for good reason.

Around 1 ton of ammo and explosives military grade is another thing, Same as huge amounts of fertilizer.

Seriously, should I not keep over a ton of ammo in my home? I've wondered if I should split up the stash some. I will have to do it later as I hear the black helicopters coming...

[jetinteriorguy]

I've been hand loading for a little over 30 years and after many thousands of bullets loaded just recently had a primer pop in my Loadmaster. Funny thing, it happened two days in a row. Turns out I had two .38sp cases that only part of the old primer came out, leaving a slight ring behind that caused the new primers to pop when they were inserted. Since you can't catch this type of thing while depriming on a progressive, I now deprime all brass off the press and visually inspect to prevent it from happening again.

[David2011]

Can't you feel when the primer bottoms out prematurely? Stop and fix the problem before popping a primer. Don't give up the benefits of the Loadmaster.

[Smk SHoe]

Had a whole sleeve of SP primers blow on a dillion 650. Found out I should not be using federal primers on it. Cups are to sensitive. Dillion replaced everything. Only a little bit of fragments in the drywall ceiling. But did see a youtube video of a fire dept (I think) burning increasing amounts of ammo. No real explosions with bullets flying all over the place like the movies. Just pops and a little bits of shrapnel. Was really hard watching them burn a entire pallet of rifle ammo at the end.

[HangFireW8]

Federals are NOT more sensitive. They are more brisant. Same amount of energy released in shorter amount of time. Other brands can chain detonate as well.

-HF

[jetinteriorguy]

On the Loadmaster you can't really feel how the primer is seating, at least I can't. Five different operations going on simultaneously sort of negates any feedback on how the primer is seating. I've easily loaded over 10000 rounds with no problems, but I figure it's no biggie to deprime off the press, it also gives me one more chance to inspect brass for cracks etc. Not too hard to deprime a thousand or so in about an hour.

[Tracy]

I wouldn't think that embedding primers in epoxy would be a safe way to dispose of them. They're still live, but now they're strongly confined. When dealing with explosives, that makes things worse, not better.

[David2011]

Tracy,

Positive suggestions? Oil and water will not disable them. In epoxy they're at least very difficult to detonate. Some of then were already deformed and possibly extra sensitive at that point.

[ioon44]

Hearing protection, eye protection, concrete drive way and a 4 lb hammer will totally disable primers.

[RGrosz]

I had a lot of old 45 ACP shells a while back. Pulled the bullets and dumped the powder, but couldn't figure out what to do with the crimped in primers. At the time I didn't need the brass so I through them on a brush pile that was going to be burnt on a cement slab away from everything. When IO set it afire, there was lots of popping for a long time, but no major damage. If I were to do it over I still don't know how to get rid of a bunch of primers. Had the question come up when My reloading room in the basement got flooded and I lost my primer stash. Just treated them like most of the other trash. It got hauled to the 'burn hole' and when it dried out, got set on fire. There was some popping but it was less noisy that the old spray paint cans that I didn't know that the step-son through in the burn hole.
Rob

[biffj]

I've had a few things happen with primers on various presses. The Dillon Square deal B blew a primer in the magazine tube and blew the low primer alarm weight into the ceiling. It didn't blow all the primers, just a few in the tube. There were primers all over the shop but no real damage.
I've deprimed a few thousand cases with live primers over the years and have yet to see a single primer go off. Pushing them out with a depriming pin is not the same as smacking them with a firing pin. It requires a sharp impact to set one off normally. If they do go off when depriming the primer will blow out of the case and down the channel in the press. Doesn't sound like a killer bullet to me.
The Dillon 650 took a while to learn and in the process there were a number of primers that got pushed in sideways. None went off either when priming or depriming. In addition the shell plate wasn't indexing exactly and a number of primers were sheared with various sized pieces being pushed into the primer pocket. None of them went off despite being cut in half. Pushing the remains out of the cases didn't pop them either.
Basic point is that primers aren't toys and should be treated carefully. On the other hand they aren't supersensitive bombs waiting to blow your house from its foundation. Don't point them at yourself when loading or unloading and don't do stupid stuff. Last thing is that you can look up the chemical properties of the material used in 99% of the primers in the US for reloading and you'll find that they are neither water nor oil soluble. They can be kept under water to reduce sensitivity but otherwise water has no effect. Oils aren't much different. Look up lead styphnate and see for yourself.

Frank

[MSD MIke]

For entertainment purposes they are cool to shoot out of an air rifle against a rock wall. Good and fun way to pop them at a distance. Eye protection of course!

[woodbutcher]

:) A little hint on vacuuming up the loading room.Use a shop vac.No impeller to set off any live primers that might be present.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[David2011]

Basic point is that primers aren't toys and should be treated carefully. On the other hand they aren't supersensitive bombs waiting to blow your house from its foundation.

Frank

Frank,

I agree that primers aren't going to blow up the house. What many of the more recent posters are missing is that a deformed primer MIGHT be exceptionally sensitive. In my initial post I pointed out the the primer exploded on contact when just touched with the tip of hemostats. Being misshapen doesn't guarantee that a primer has become supersensitized but it is a possibility. I'm grateful that I touched the primer in my case feeder with a tool instead of a bare finger.

I'm reposting Gosthawk's message. He, too, had a damaged primer explode with light contact.



I have learned the hard way that a primer which has been disfigured in any significant way is one touchy SOB.

I normally prime with a RCBS universal hand unit. Good system and I love it. But somehow when I was priming some rifle cases one came up sideways, got mashed into place that way.

When I found it, it had just had a powder charge dropped in, and a bullet seated.
As part of the final process I like to wipe the noses of my cast boolits. And I spotted the sideways primer.

So pulled the bullet, carefully. Dumped the powder.

I have a spare pin for the Lee depriming die. And a piece of 2x2 with some step drill holes drilled into each end. So the pin goes in touches the primer and BANG.

I had not even tapped it with the hammer, yet.

On contact, BANG.

But, base was on a solid surface, no powder inside, case neck is pointed up, whole assembly is at least a foot from my face. Pin took a hop. But no damage was done.

Fingers holding the case tingled for a few seconds. Then I tapped that primer out, reprimed, recharged, and reset the bullet.

But I am very very careful with any primer that has been squeezed, misshaped, or damaged.

[ukrifleman]

I have had a berdan primer detonate and ignite the charge in a kinetic puller, when I was pulling some pre-war French 7.5x54 ammunition to render it inert for a friend's collection.

The round in question was a combined AP/tracer.

Luckily, the tracer failed to ignite.

Lesson learnt, I will never pull berdan primed ammunition again in a kinetic puller.

A second incident involved a shooting buddy who was annealing some brass by holding the case over a flame with pliers.

He picked up a case with a live primer by mistake and it detonated, hitting his knuckle and then travelling about an inch under the skin along the bone to the base of his finger.

He had to have it surgically removed.

I would also caution anyone not to use a vacuum cleaner to clean up around the loading bench, as any spilt powder could ignite in the machine .

ukrifleman.
ukrifleman