Smokeless Full Length Shotshell Data?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Sorry if this is the wrong sub.

Does anyone have a source of smokeless load data for full length brass shotshells?

I have some Magtech 12ga 2-1/2" brass shells for cowboy action. Lots of fun with black powder! I would like to make up some light smokeless loads for practice but I can't seem to find anything on the web. Magtech states these are only for BP/Subs and light smokeless loads. Could I substitute light 7/8oz-1oz load data from plastic shotsell data? I've got some Red Dot and Trail Boss that I would like to use up if safely possible.


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[junkbug]

You might look for info on re-loading paper shotshells. They are almost always loaded with fiber and card wads, and light smokeless charges. I can't remember if the Lyman Shotshell reloading manual has any info on them.

[GhostHawk]

Nope, no such critter. Which is a dang crying shame IMO.

No one wants to be liable.

So the only published loads I have seen in nearly 3 years of looking are black powder.

That being said I have loaded some 20 gauge loads in magtech brass.

First thing you have to do is throw out the rulebook. #1 being no substitutions, of any kind, ever. Just pitch that.

So the second thing you have to do is accept that the only person who can make a valid judgement on load is you. Thus if something goes wrong, its on YOU. Period.

Write it in stone and keep it in the back of your head.

Next, the brass magtech hulls are thinner than all the store bought plastic hulls. So plastic wad's don't work. They don't develop enough pressure to make the powder burn right.

So then you are looking at either Ballistics products inc, or circlefly for fiber wads.

Need roughly 2 gauges bigger than the shotgun. IE my 20 needs 18 ga wads. Your 12 is going to most likely need 10's. The good news is you can take a measurement on the mouth of the brass hull. Write it down, compare it to size of wad. It should be listed.

Powder charge, where the recipe I went off of used 12 grains I dropped to 10. Just cause. But I have not had a chance to test them yet. Been struggling with age and limited energy, it just has not yet happened.

The good news is this. Those hulls are bigger, so instead of causing a pressure spike, they should cause pressure to be lower. But that is debatable to some degree. So don't count on it.

I would keep payloads on the lighter side.

At least until you find out what works well and what does not.

Last, similar to shooting critters which it may be against the law to shoot. S, S S.
Or Shoot, shovel, and shutup.

Load data you develop should be held close. You give someone advice on load data and they blow their gun up. Who they going to sue, themselves? No, they coming after you.

Bear in mind even family might sue if there are missing body parts and pain and suffering involved. BE CAUTIOUS.

Last, go ahead, it is not rocket science. I believe you can do this.

Ohh and make sure you compress those wads well. I have heard a lot of theory's as to why brass hulls have a higher than normal rate of "bloopers" and duds.

Most come back to pressure, pressure for proper powder burning. Pressure developed by fiber wads compared to plastic. Pressure comparing crimped plastic hulls compared to glued overshot cards. Pressure. So use plenty, don't skimp the glue.

Do tell us what worked and what did not.
Don't tell me which powder, what grains and what load.
Not out in the open. Not if your smart. Call me paranoid.

[nekshot]

Why light loads only?? Does the brass not grab hold of sides like plastic or paper?? I would love to hear a exact answer and no lawyer induced dribble.

[jdfoxinc]

12 ga mag tech take 11 ga OP and cushion wads. I use 10 ga OS wads. Load by dram equivalence. Like 2 2/4 dram eq load under 11/8 oz is 21 gr green dot. You can also reduce shot. Do not use trail boss. It will compress which is very bad. Red dot is a good shot shell propellant.

P. S. Dram equivalence loads are equal to black powder loads. 3 drams of BP =82 gr. By weight.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Thank you all for the tips and advice. I have used these shot shells before with 2fg black powder with very good results. Already have all the proper gauge wads and cards on hand. I'll give light paper shotshell data a try. I think it is also important to point out that these smokeless loads will only ever be fired in a modern shotgun. I am not trying to find a smokeless load for a Damascus barreled shotgun.


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[David2011]

One of the magazines had an article on loading brass shotgun shells within probably the last 5 years. Maybe Handloader? Maybe someone will remember.

[TonyfromItaly]

Good Morning, i think you can just take a 1 oz load for a 2 3/4 hull star crimped and use it into those hulls. You will have to use a lower wad. The diminished pressure from the star crimping will be compensated by using a lower height wad. We do lot a loading in roll crimp here in italy. You actually have a decrease in pressure of about 120 bars when you go from 6 point star crimp to roll crimp.

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

196962
I have an old Alcan manual that shows loads for their all brass hulls,but file is to big to attach.Send me a PM with e-mail if you would like to take a look at it.It only shows a couple loads with Red Dot,all others are extinct Alcan powders.I use the Red Dot load in my 1897.