H&R Buffalo Classic

[Finn45]

Anybody have anything to say about H&R rifles and specifically their Buffalo Classic model? I'm jammed to .45-70 it seems and I've always wanted single shot rifle with long barrel and classic appearance. Sharps replicas from Italy are pretty expensive and there's no chance buying American made Sharps, no dealer and direct buy from US is full of bureaucracy. .45-70 caliber would give me possibility to hunt big game and I already have molds and some experience with loads and such. I've also wanted rifle for black powder and can't see many reasons why BC wouldn't work with it. I don't have a clue about twist rate, throat and such, but with luck my first and only black powder mold (535 grs.) would work with it too. Right now I've bad itch for it, because there's some kind of inventory sale going on at Finnish H&R dealer... BC is on sale and it's actually cheap, so is it worth buying or should I wait until I have money and courage to try Italian made adventure? That will take many years.

[Jumptrap]

Reijo,

Go for it. I don't own one, but they are fairly well made guns and give reliable service. And since the price is right, and the gun is available NOW, take advantage of it, have fun and enjoy:)!

[jethrow strait]

Finn45, that's a long c31" heavy barrel for that simple Handi-Rifle action. I had one as well as the 38-55 Target Rifle for 3-4 years. Rigged it up with all sorts of sights front and back, but it never performed as well for me as the basic Handi-rifle with the 22" barrel. The Buffalo Rifle is just a fancified Handi-Rifle brought out mainly for the Kowboy Game trade, checkered walnut instead of plain beechwood, and curved steel butplate(ouch!)instead of a recoil pad. It's just a basic entry-level break-open single shot, but that said, I have to say that on the whole I have found the NEF barrels more friendly to Cast Boolits than the otherwise fine and far more expensive Thompson Center Barrels. I got rid of those fancy NEFS and now have just two, the 45-70 and a 22 Hornet(1/12 twist stabilizes milsurp 55grn spitzers), as well as extra barrels in 7.62X39 and .44 Magnum. Good cheap shooting!

There was a fellow from Wisconsin, one of the more erudite as well as outspoken members of the old Shooters.com gang, who got into the Buffalo Rifle just when I was getting out. His handle began with an A......, but for the life of me I can't think of it at the moment. At any rate, he worked long and hard with the Buf; if he is 'lurking' here, perhaps he will chime in. I think he might be able to give you a more encouraging report on the Buf.-----jethrow

[Finn45]

Mark and Jethrow, thanks. Yep, having one available at reasonable price is one good reason. Walnut stock and long barrel (at that price) is another good reason. No single shot rifles yet in my cabinet is third. I haven't found bad reviews about these, but I have found many good reviews. That surprises me, because 485 euros normal price is one of the cheapest here generally and when it's rounded to 277 euros it's unbelievable. Those prices includes taxes, that is 22% btw. 10 euros for shipping... I'm burning. 277+10 makes 224 euros before taxes and that is something like $260...$270... They are much cheaper in US right? Well, I booked one, just need to push GO-button in the beginning of the next week if I so decide.

[RayinNH]

Finn45, I believe it was Alladin that Jethrow Strait was trying to remember as having done a lot of work with the "Buff Classic". I bought one 2 years ago and paid $329.00 for it. I shoot Lyman #457124 and Lee 459-405-HB in it. I have never slugged the bore nor really spent much time on load development but really don't have much trouble keeping them in a 3-4 inch group at a hundred yards. If I fine tuned the load and had better eyes I could do better. The crescent butt plate is not a problem at trapdoor velocities (1200-1300). Shooting 100 rounds is not punishing at these velocities. It really is a fun gun.

Here is an article that might interest you.
cascity.com/article0899-2.htm (http://www.cascity.com/article0899-2.htm)

The article mentions that the rifle doesn't come with sights. That no longer is true...Ray

[cabezaverde]

I have the 38-55 Target Rifle (very similar) and like it. I have seen a lot of shooters over at Graybeards complain about the way the chamber is cut on the 38-55. Once I got mine figured out, it shoots quite well and is very enjoyable.

[Bass Ackward]

Reijo,

Oh boy. Sounds like you got the bug bad. Well just realize what you are getting yourself in for. So far you have been limited in OAL and have had to find accuracy that way. Now, you are going to throw OAL length away as a security blanket and open up numerous options that must each be searched out and explored.

And you can't shoot but 6 months a year!

You are going to go crazy! Or have some fun. Guess we will read which as time goes by. :grin:

[Junior1942]

I have a Buffalo Classic and a 22" Handi both in 45-70. Both barrels prefer the 450 Lee FP. I shoot pure lead and Pyrodex RS with a lubed felt wad twixt powder and bullet.

Here's an article detailing load work I did with 3 different bullets in the 22" barrel: http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/1871.htm

[jethrow strait]

Thanks RayinNH for jogging my memory! My head was beginning to hurt just tryin to remember Alladin; hope he's just gone into hibernation for the Wisconsin winter! Spent some time there as well as the first ten years of my life in NH; the latter seemed almost tropical compared to that Canadian Shield country in the northern midwest. Course, I was livin a Tom Sawyer life in New Hampshire, from the Merrimac River to Bear Brook State Park, fishing, bicyling and smoking corn silk, with hockey and bonfires on the ponds in the winter.

Agree with you Junior, with them Lee moulds the 450 grainer was about the best in both Handi's---plain and gussied-up.

jethrow

[waksupi]

Jethrow, in that part of the country, you were more like Henry David Thoreau, than Tom Sawyer.

[versifier]

Waksupi,
I don't think Thoreau ever had as much fun as Tom Sawyer, and the last time I visited Walden I was totally disgusted by trash, erosion and human waste. They say it was a lot nicer in his day, but I have my doubts. Still, that's par for the course any time I visit the Peoples' Republic of Massachusetts. Up Noth here we still know how to have fun without doing a year in jail for transporting a handgun (even a muzzle loader, folks!). While there may not seem to be a lot of distance when you look at a map, we are talking about two different worlds. Up here you can breathe the air without coughing, drink the water without retching, own guns without registering, and leave your car and house unlocked. I think Tom would have loved New Hampshire, though I admit the rafting would have been a bit difficult come February. [smilie=p:

[26Charlie]

Hi Finn45,
I've got one of the Buffalo Classics, and it shoots very well. I put a thread on here called ".45-70 with heavy bullets" about it. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=2625 is the shortcut to it.
It is a bit light, and I had to finally get a custom sight for it to be really usable at different ranges, but it shoots lead and paper-patched bullets quite well.

[Buckshot]

............I've read good reports on the Wesson & Harrington which was supposed to be a modernified version of an actual late 1800's SS break open rifle, if I'm not really messed up. It was in 45-70. There is a guy who shoots on Tuesdays quite often at the range and he has nothing except Handi-Rifles. None are 45-70's but the fact remains in conversation with him, he has them shooting as well as anything.

A buddy is big into Cowboy action shooting and on occasion a couple of his friends will come out to shoot. On eof them has one in 38-55. I don't know if it's the target model or how stock it is. By that I mean it has nice engraving and the frame is color casehardened. Altogther a VERY pleasing looking rifle. Best part is that it shoots extremely well. I am very partial to the 38-55 cartridge and that makes it even harder to resist.

That sounds like a very good price on them, and how often is THAT going to happen? The opportunity is before you man, do not hesitate as you will regret it later! Your son will be needing a rifle bfore too long, and it's always nice to have a spare too!

I just LOVE helping spend other people's money :D

..............Buckshot

[Finn45]

Alright, after all those pointers and suggestions I can only pull the trigger on this, round chambered. Thanks for all comments; links were great and gave me good info and Junior's article is just super; thank you. What held me a bit is that gun this inexpensive cannot be very... hmmm... or maybe it can. Comments all over the net are telling about not very good and also very good grouping and normally I'm very good collecting lemons. But then again, more tinkering to do and that's what I like. BC arrives hopefully before weekend, so casting sulfur and swaging lead at the night time is in order. Yeah, I got the bug baaad...[smilie=f:

[GregP42]

Finn,

Sorry I didn't respond before. I have one in 45/70, I find that it shoots very well with cast, I have been using a modified postel in mine that is 525gr over 65gr of 2fg black powder. I have no problem keeping it in 3" at 200m, but the stock rear sight doesn't work well with black powder. I am mounting a tang sight on mine so I can shoot out to 500m with it. But all in all it is a fine weapon.

Greg

[Finn45]

Hi Greg and thanks for the comment. Buff arrived yesterday and it's pretty nice rifle indeed. There's cap or two here and there and maybe the forend is not sitting exactly center, but looking at the price this is very fine work. I didn't slug it yet, but checked with a bullet from the muzzle and this is clearly tighter than Marlin, maybe slightly less than .452/.457. Eight grooves and very good looking barrel, sharp and even lands and good looking crown. But, there's no much throat at all. My Marlin loads won't chamber and rifling start is very sharp without any cone or leade leaving carving marks to the boolit with tapered front band. Chamber cast will tell me more, but I feel that it needs at least some smoothing work if not actual throating with reamer. This rifle screams for long range rear sight...

[lonewolf5347]

Finn45: I pick up a 45-70 BC in PA .new from D@R he had only one in stock $308.00 .I hope you know that H@R has a $20.00 rebate program on all centerfire rifle until the end of december 05. I did shoot the H@R the other day with some cast 405 FP .458 dia: 20:1 cast loaded with 65 grains of 2f goex. I had no problem for the first time out,you are correct in saying the rear sight on the H@R needs to be upgraded I was shooting 75 yards and there was not much adjustment left on the rear peep.I just purchase the upgraded sight from H@R cost was $62.50 and sold the stock sight that came with the gun. I found with the 405 grain FP bullet OAL was 2.690 would chamber ,showed lands and grooves on the bullet @ would not extract on it own,seem OAL 2.660 would chamber with no problems and eject easy . I did not slug the bore on the rifle and would like to load it with the 405 FP and see what groups the gun will print or maybe try the .459 at a later date.
Otherwise no problems at all with the gun ,trigger is crisp would breaks around 3 1/2 pounds .

[Finn45]

Yep, but I believe that rebate won't too much good outside US. Price I paid seem to be very good, it's not very common that our price without taxes is even close to US prices. Trigger in mine is not perfect; it's not heavy, maybe 3+ pounds, but it has creep like first stage pull, then slight step and pretty crisp release from there. System is very easy, so this will be no problem, just need to use it some before modifications. I have played some with empty case trying to get familiar with ejection; this is actually quite fast to shoot. And if ever changing rules of our moose test allows next year, I can see myself shocking the snot out of the range supervisors by shooting black powder... Woohooo, I caaan't seee the frigging target...

[SharpsShooter]

Finn,

A couple of years ago, a friend of mine and I were harvesting whitetail deer on "crop damage permits". He had a handi-rifle 45-70, which is the same deal as the BC, except for the barrel length. We got into a small herd of 20 or so, and when the shooting started, he got off three killing shots in less than 20 seconds. I was surprised at the speed myself. I was using a siamese mauser in the same caliber and only fired twice in the same time span. Yeah, that ejector makes it easy for a quick second shot, but with the 45-70, most game expire on the first one. Black Powder should be a blast with yours for moose.

[Finn45]

Yep, black powder would be enough for sure in practice, but not legal because of the energy regulations here around. But I can shoot it on the range and in a moose test shoot (if officials don't add some "legal loads also for the test" paragraph...). It will be quite shocking as is because unfortunately we have lost most of our BP tradition, probably all of it. From the past years, maybe 20...25 years ago I remember only one individual who used black powder in shotgun shell in duck hunting opening, it was easy to see where he was located.

[SharpsShooter]

Someone should point out to the folks that create those regulations that Black Powder loads have been used for likely every species of game on the planet, including the dangerous game of Africa

[cabezaverde]

I have had great luck improving the accuracy of my 38-55 by putting a rubber o ring between the barrel and fore end.

Graybeards has a forum on the HR centerfires and there is a lot of discussion there on the BC classic.

[Finn45]

The folks that create those regulations are out of alignment in the brain section no question about it. We had very nice ruling for big game ammunition until 1993 IIRC, when hand loaded ammo was legalized for moose and bear hunting. Yes, there was a rule, the law, that only factory loaded ammo is legal. It was so deep covered that legal hunting ammo was only legal ammo also when shooting our moose test shoot. Pretty good puff for Sako and Lapua, the most common brands of ammunition here around. One wrinkle mouthed writer here used to call that time "Sakocracy"-era. Later years it changed so that hand loaded ammo was legal for the test, but it should be loaded with legal specs. Yikes. It was instant Christmas when some bulb head got hand loaded ammunition legalized in actual BG hunting. And for the test shoot it's legal to use any ammunition as long as it's legal for smallest deer species.

But it's getting better. Long lasting and persistent efforts by bow hunting folks have made possible to use certain poundage bow and arrow for roe deer. Not for deer or bigger so far. And crossbow is not legal of course for some reason. And it's not legal for BG to use shotgun slug of any kind, not legal to use smoothbore no matter how many foot pounds that 4 gauge will deliver and it's completely forbidden to use handgun in any hunting. Trapping pest and varmints is not considered hunting, so one can finish that trapped raccoon or mink with handgun.

Yeah, H&R-forum seems to be the most active place in whole GBO. Lots of reading and I've been there reading the stuff, but for me I like more homely place. Thanks for the tip though, new gun lot to learn.