Table saws

[MaryB]

I am in the market for a decent low end table saw. Something that can handle a half sheet of plywood without my having to add supports on the side. Been look at the Grizzly saws and this one and the one just below it in price caught my eye http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife-Polar-Bear-Series/G0715P?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com Yes I can probably get a contractor saw cheaper but this is going to be in my shop, not being moved around. Anyone have any experience with them?

[Bazoo]

I dont have any experience with grizzly products.

My experience is mostly with a Jet xacta saw. It was a 3 hp saw and it was strong. We ran it professionally for 10 years, replacing the bearings in the arbor 3 or 4 times. It ran great. It was 1000.00 10 years ago... but is twice that now. Personally, if you dont want a contractor saw, i'd look on craigslist for a used Jet.

I have currently a ridgid R4512 contractor saw. Its really nice. The power aint there like it was with the jet, but if you dont cut a lot of hardwood you couldnt tell the difference. I cut a lot of ash 1" thick, and i have to take my time, whereas with the jet I could run it as fast as I could push. It runs good though, smooth, and I really like it. It has at least one feature that the jet didnt, that I like. The riving knife is not part of the guard. I never run a guard, but i love a riving knife to keep the wood from pinching the blade.

https://www.amazon.com/RIDGID-R4512-13-Amp-Cast-IronTable/dp/B0090LHEJA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496289215&sr=8-1&keywords=ridgid+table+saw I got mine from the local home depot for just at 600 with tax. I've seen used ones for 350 or so.

[MaryB]

I live in the boonies so Craigslist is out, never much listed unless it is junk or so old I won't be able to get parts to make it like new. That Rigid has some bad reviews with trunnion issues and it seems to be a random chance you will get a lemon...

[Bazoo]

I didnt know that Mary. I didnt do much research on it before I bought it. I have only been using it a month or so. The blade moves up and down and tilts very smooth. Guess we'll see if that changes.

[retread]

MaryB,

I used to live in Bellingham, Washington where Grizzly start as "Grizzly Imports" in 1982. When they first started the quality was typical of imports from China, better than nothing but not by much. Over the years they have steadily improved the quality of their equipment. I would not hesitate in buying a table saw from them. I have an old Delta Rockwell from the early 70's that I feel is still the standard for a good table saw. I have several friends that have Grizzly's and they are very happy with them. I did buy one of their Bridgeport style milling machines in 2004 and it turned out to be a very good machine and still is today.

Jay

[Jeff Michel]

A cabinet maker buddy of mine has the exact Grizzly saw. I've played with it, ripped, dado's, etc. It's a nice piece of equipment, I especially like the fence. I have a Rigid table saw and I'd trade in a heartbeat and I have no complaints with the Rigid saw.

[crappie-hunter]

I have that exact same saw,have had it in my hobby shop for several years,it's a fantastic saw, hook it up to 220v and I challenge you to stall the thing. Fence is dead on accurate get it set up correctly and no more measuring at every cut. Only had one issue and that I had to re-tighten the belt after the initial set up and tightened it tighter than the manuel calls for,no more slippage. I am in Pa. and went right to the store in the Lycoming mall to pick it up,they have since moved out of Pa. I'm ticked. I just purchased a Grizzley metal lathe and had to pay shipping, and could not go and see and operate the machine before purchasing.

Grizzley has a fantastic product for the money , don't hesitate on that saw.

[dverna]

MaryB

Even a half sheet of plywood can be awkward to handle. I made my benches about 1/2" less in height than the table saw and use them as outfeed tables. I do not like using "helpers" to handle large items as I think it increases the risk for an accident.

[OS OK]

Once you decide on the best table saw for your application...you are going to have to get up to speed on blade types...

https://www.woodcraft.com/blog_entries/choosing-the-right-table-saw-blades

dverna hit it on the nose about take off tables...you will not get by without one and a helper on the take off side will get you both hurt...especially the operator. That blade can eject lumber like a boolit.
An adequate take off table will double as a layout and assembly area.
I put an 8' long by full width of the saw table behind my Delta, covered in melamine...it's slick, besides the addition of a table saw, that take off table has been the star of the shop...everything happens around that area. You can do figures or drawings in pencil and it wipes off with windex...don't think a take off table will get in the way.

Don't safety up with gloves...ever. It's the quickest way to get a digit pulled into the blade...especially when you think you have the saw figured out.

[Ickisrulz]

I have a Grizzly contractor saw I bought almost 20 years ago. Just this year I needed a new motor. It has been a good saw and followed me around on a few military moves. It even spent some time outdoors under a tarp. I am happy with my other tools I bought from Grizzly (joiner, sander and planer.)

I have a workbench up against the back of the table saw to use as an out feed. I have run many full sheets of plywood and MDF through the saw by myself (the long way). If I cannot make a cut with the table saw, I use a circular saw and straight edge.

[15meter]

I have a Delta contractor's saw I bought new about 20 years ago and would buy it again if the shop burned down. I don't anticipate wearing it out in my lifetime​. And I have worn out high end Forrest blades on it.

[mozeppa]

i bought a sears pop of the line....when it broke the motor carriage while trying to set an angle cut.

i put it in a dumpster and bought a powermatic ....it runs great, holds its value ....i've never been sorry.

[gnoahhh]

IMO an old used Delta Unisaw would be a better option than a new low end saw. Those rascals just don't wear out. I'll second the advice regarding an outfeed table, especially if cutting sheet goods. Make it as big as your shop space permits, you'll thank us later.

The table saw is the centerpiece of any shop, IMO, and is not the place to cut corners or go cheap.

[JimB..]

I have a very old Unisaw, got lucky on it through Craigslist. Upgraded to a biesmeyer fence and changed the belts over to the linked style...that's been 15 years ago now, hasn't needed anything except blades since.

[CastingFool]

I have an old Delta Unisaw, made in 1968. Bought it used in 1988. The only problem I had with it is that the original motor burned up one of the windings, would start but no power. Local shop said no parts were available, it was an old 1725 rpm motor, 1 Hp. Ended up purchasing a new 3250 rpm motor, 1-1/2 hp, new belts and pulleys. Could have bought a new craftsman, but I still wouldn't have the quality. I have ripped a 4'x8' sheet of plywood down the middle, by myself, but I had lots more room in my shop then. The original fence is not the most accurate, but I make it do. Still I wouldn't trade it or sell it.

[DCM]

I have that exact same saw,have had it in my hobby shop for several years,it's a fantastic saw, hook it up to 220v and I challenge you to stall the thing.

You obviously have never met my wife.

[Paf]

In the school district where I teach Industrial Arts (shop) some of our teachers have bought the Grizzly brand machines for their programs. I have looked at them and feel that they are well built; and would fulfill most needs a person would have in a home shop. I have a mixture of equipment in our school shop. I am still running all of the original Powermatic and Delta equipment when the school opened in 1963. I have added newer Powermatic, Jet, and Delta machines to the inventory over the past 25 years since I've been there. I have also acquired used equipment from garage sales/swap meets for student use as well (Heaven help me when I retire!). My point being is that any well built piece of equipment you obtain can do great things once it is properly tuned up. I tend to lean towards older equipment myself, since I got my experience on similar machines. If you enjoy tinkering, working on older machines is one option, and it can be rewarding to get them back in running order. Spare parts can be a problem, but the internet is a resource to use for that. Good luck on your ventures, whatever route you decide on.

[MaryB]

Outfeed table is in the plans, I do not like having someone move wrong and wreck a cut or a blade! And I am well familiar with kickback! Saw a 2x4 go through 2 layers of drywall then embed in the third 20 feet across the room.

I do small projects only, no massive furniture so I do not need a massive saw. I have worn out 3 low end contractor no-name saws over the last 40 years! Now that I have a permanent shop I want a saw I can roll into place(yes I will put it on a caster platform) and use without having to fight with bad fences, blades that are not true... last saw I never could get the blade run out decent enough for finish cuts.

Tinkering is fine but lack of sellers is a problem. I am 90 miles from the nearest metro area over 90,000 people and 125 to the Twin Cities. I do not handle long distance driving well anymore with my torn up spine. Local Craigslist had nothing but one ancient piece of rusted junk I could not even identify as a saw. Mostly the low end big box store contractor saws without the wide fence rails for cutting ply.

I have retired for good, other than building some smaller pieces for local sales via CL. I am not going to advertise, not going to take orders... if I have a piece in stock to sell fine, if not oh well. Just something to keep me occupied more during winter when I am not busy in the garden. Maybe add a few bucks to the pocket now and then. I might combine it with my love of brewing and make some mash paddles and flight serving paddles, and maybe a nice custom 6 pack crate for gift beers...

[Paf]

You are correct about kickback. When I student taught at Blaine High School (northern suburb of the Twin Cities), the mentor teacher had on permanent display an oak coffee table top with another piece of hardwood sticking right through the center. The smaller piece of wood was kicked out on either the large table saw or wood planer (can't remember which) and sailed halfway across the shop to which it stuck into the oak top that was standing up against the wall. I would hate to think what could have happened to anyone that was in the path of that projectile.

[Handloader109]

It's a good saw. I'd spring for it! I've a big powermatic I bought a decade ago, but wouldn't hesit 5 to buy a grizzly. Jet and Delta pretty much made in same Chinese factory. And the grizzly folks hav3 good customer service.

[NavyVet1959]

I went quite a long time trying to justify the cost vs floor space needed for a table saw. At one point, I stumbled across a guy who was selling his father-in-law's stuff (after he had died). It was an old Craftsman cast iron table saw for maybe $100 and he tossed in a milk crate full of blades and a second fence and miter slide. At that price, I was able to justify the floor space. :)

It has a decent size table, but if I was routinely doing 8 ft pieces of lumber, I would probably add out tables to it. It's just nice being able to do good straight cuts for a change. :)

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/wood-trimmed-glass-tray-320w.jpg

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/ipad-stand-1-320w.jpg

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/ipad-stand-2-320w.jpg

Still got all my fingers... Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for some of the people I know that have table saws and have been doing woodworking for a long time. :(

[MaryB]

I have a good source of oak pallets so after a trip through the planer I have an unlimited supply of short pieces of nice hardwood. I have made a few spice racks that sold very well on Craigslist, a couple gun display racks for heirlooms... small stuff. Some I sent with a friend to the farmers market and they sold well so it is a nice little hobby sideline I enjoy.

[OS OK]

I have a small hand held metal detecting wand that I pass over the used boards especially pallet material before running through any of my machines.
If you find one broken off nail you just saved the price of the detector...they are cheap.

[Wayne Smith]

Technically that is a cabinet saw but if you can afford it go for it. You get a lot more with that design than a contractor saw. Grizzley products have an increasing reputation, I'd chance it for the extra quality.

[Duckiller]

Mary make sure your new saw can be wired for 220v. I have a 40=/- year old Delta Contractor saw that my FIL wired for 110v. I used it that way for many years. About 3 years ago I had 220v put into the garage and rewired the saw. An unbelievable difference in cutting power. Not sure how far out in the country you live but my brother who lives in a MI county with no stop lights finds all sorts of tools on Crraig's list. He is just patient.

[NavyVet1959]

https://nmi.craigslist.org/tls/6155856711.html

https://nmi.craigslist.org/tld/6123016028.html

[kmrra]

from the looks of the saw , im sure that, that will be all you would ever need. I have to get the small ones for my work , cause I have to move them around , im already on my second one in five years, the next one will be one of the fold up DeWalt ones that home depot sells.

[izzyjoe]

Just depends on how much you are Gona use it, I'd look long and hard for a good quality used saw. The market is flooded with used saws, a lot of older folks are passing on, and nobody want there stuff. My FIL sold his complete cabinet shop a year ago, and he basically had to give the stuff away. I would have liked to have his table saw but it was a large powermatic, and it was 3phase with some kind of strange conversation to run on standard 220v. But that saw would cut through anything, he mainly used red oak for his cabinets, and that is some hard stuff to cut. I'm sure Gona miss his shop, if I needed anything cut or built I turned to him. My dad give his old craftsman table saw, it's not hard to stall it, so I take it easy that's the way it should be done anyway. But it works great for me, but I'm just a novice!

[MaryB]

My corner of MN has around 20 people per sq mile including the towns... and used tools that are quality do not end up on CL, they go to auction and idiots pay new price for them! I have been watching CL for 3 months... zero besides used contractor saws(no thanks). This is not quite a cabinet saw, a step below one, but I want the accuracy and the power to handle oak pallet wood. I have retired(no longer a vendor here if you didn't notice) but still need to supplement my income a bit each month and the few wood pieces I have built have sold well. As mentioned I am not going to take orders, if I build a piece and have it for sale then good. With my back getting worse I want a solid saw that I won't have to fight with. Set it up, make my cuts and be done. Fighting sloppy fences etc right now drives me nuts.

And it is 220 volt, and I have 220 in the new shop (60 amps) so more than enough for a table saw and a good compressor fr the air tools. My workbench is setup with a section that tilts for sanding and I have a nice rolling drafting stool I can sit at while I work to save wear on the spine. Older I get the more I want quality buy it once and be done with it!

[OS OK]

Can't you buy a new saw from the Grizzly catalogue and have it delivered?

[JimB..]

MaryB, "decent low end" and "Older I get the more I want quality buy it once and be done with it" don't exactly go together.

I have a hard time buying equipment, and usually get something more than I really need, so take my advice with that caution. Given that used equipment is scarce where you are and that what is available sells for near new prices, why not go for a cabinet saw?

I'm not a fan of the current Delta products. If I was buying new I'd probably get a sawstop. Not because of their blade stopping feature, but because it really is a good saw from what I've been able to tell.

I'm sure that the grizzly is a fine lightweight saw, does the brand hold value on the used market?

[sawinredneck]

I agree with the sawstop being very well built! A place nearby sells Delta, Jet and sawstop, the Delta looked like a flimsy beer can, the Jet a little sturdier than card table and the sawstop like a Bridgeport mill! I was impressed, until I looked at the prices, but you pay for quality.
https://www.amazon.com/SawStop-PCS31230-TGP252-Professional-Assembly-Extension/dp/B005HPWE5W

[jmort]

If I had the $$$ to spend for a SawStop that is what I would get

[Any Cal.]

I used a large cast iron Rigid that worked ok. Really liked the table for putting magnetic featherboards on.

I use an older 8 1/4" Makita contractor saw. Works OK, but it needed some time adjusting the fence and motor mount. Still not great, but does what it needs to. Paid $40 for it with a new $45 blade on it.

I find that most people buy FAR more table saw than they need. Sheet goods are easier to cut down with a Skilsaw, once they are 1/2 sheets or smaller they can be handled with a small saw just fine. I cut full sheets on the ground, then don't have to wrestle them around. Also, small saws set into larger tables are nice.

Usually people aren't ripping 3" of oak, they are cutting 1x into slimmer pieces. Kind of silly to buy a saw for the 1% work. On those rare occasions you can just baby the smaller saw.

The exception is the guys that build a lot of saw jigs. If you are turning bowls, cutting round tables, box joints, and gears on your table saw, then a larger table looks like it could be immensely handy.

[MaryB]

Sawstop is WAYYYYYY out of my budget! And I have a friend with a lumber mill so I do get 4x4 oak to rip down lol and other lumber. Have a tiny stash of black walnut I am saving for just the right project. Still looking to see what I can find, I really like to see things hands on before I buy so hesitating on the Grizzly(nearest store is a long ways away!).

[Any Cal.]

Tell your friend to rip it. Or cut it with a bandsaw. Or cut it with a worm drive Skil saw. Or take your time on it.

Just a Skil saw and a straight edge will go a long way while you find the right saw. Or build a table for the Skil saw. I have one that is quick detach to the saw, and mounts to my workbench. Built the saw to build a bed before I had a table saw. Worked fine, just wasn't as easy to use the fence.

You can see I tend to be a bit minimalist, so obviously there are other ways to go about it too...

[MaryB]

I do have a track system for one of my skil saws, just a lot more work to setup a square cut. Plus its clamp maxes at 1 1/2 inches(I might be able to make some more clamps though... hmmm...)
and yes I have been minimalist for years, last tool I bought for working wood was a biscuit joiner 20 years ago...

Tell your friend to rip it. Or cut it with a bandsaw. Or cut it with a worm drive Skil saw. Or take your time on it.

Just a Skil saw and a straight edge will go a long way while you find the right saw. Or build a table for the Skil saw. I have one that is quick detach to the saw, and mounts to my workbench. Built the saw to build a bed before I had a table saw. Worked fine, just wasn't as easy to use the fence.

You can see I tend to be a bit minimalist, so obviously there are other ways to go about it too...

[David2011]

MaryB,

This might be less saw than you want but it is portable, has wheels and the table has extension wings that will let you rip 24". It also has a short outfeed extension. I have an older version of the same saw that I picked up unused at a garage sale ridiculously cheap. I replaced an $89 saw with it and have been satisfied. The blade runs true which is more than I can say for the 2 cheap saws I had before. I once had access to a big 5HP 3 phase Powermatic for a few years so I do know the difference but the portable Craftsman does a very decent job. I've used mine for about 10 years for everything from RC airplane work to carpentry projects. The biggest shortcoming IMO of the smaller saws is the length of the fence. It just make aligning a 6'-8' piece more of a challenge to align.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-10inch-table-saw-with-laser-trac-reg-21807/p-00921807000P?rrec=true

David

[NavyVet1959]

Maybe you could attach a long 4"x4" piece of 12 gauge square tubing that was straight to the existing fence?

Before I got my table saw, I just mounted a circular hand saw upside down in a piece of 3/4" plywood and used a large piece of angle iron and some C-clamps to set it as a fence. It's not as good as having a real table saw, but it makes straight cuts a lot more even than just doing it by hand.

[MaryB]

I bought one of these back when they were $129... https://www.rockler.com/ezsmart-track-saw-system makes trimming doors etc a piece of cake. With the right blade you can cut off a piece that is paper thin... but as I mentioned it is a pain setting it up for repeat cuts which is what I need. If I need 10 pieces all the same width it is a lot of futzing around to get things right and can add hours to a project. Like the set of storage shelves I built my mom for Christmas 2 years ago. She is in a condo and had a space that wouldn't fit any standard width shelf plus she wanted door to hide the mess. So I built her a cabinet 33 inches wide and 6' tall and 17 inches deep(said it was an odd size) to fit that space perfectly. Looks like a built in but if she moves she can take it with. I had to cut the sides, top and bottom all the same, then cut 7 shelves all the same to fit it... Then I had to cut dado's on my old table saw with the broken fence held on with a vice grip...

Going to wait a couple months and see if anything pops up on Craigslist that is close.

[NavyVet1959]

I bought one of these back when they were $129... https://www.rockler.com/ezsmart-track-saw-system makes trimming doors etc a piece of cake. With the right blade you can cut off a piece that is paper thin... but as I mentioned it is a pain setting it up for repeat cuts which is what I need. If I need 10 pieces all the same width it is a lot of futzing around to get things right and can add hours to a project. Like the set of storage shelves I built my mom for Christmas 2 years ago. She is in a condo and had a space that wouldn't fit any standard width shelf plus she wanted door to hide the mess. So I built her a cabinet 33 inches wide and 6' tall and 17 inches deep(said it was an odd size) to fit that space perfectly. Looks like a built in but if she moves she can take it with. I had to cut the sides, top and bottom all the same, then cut 7 shelves all the same to fit it... Then I had to cut dado's on my old table saw with the broken fence held on with a vice grip...


I had something similar. It didn't have the bed for the circular saw to be attached, it just acted as a guide that you attached with C-clamps and you used the edge of the circular saw against it. So, you had to take into account the distance between the edge of your circular saw and the blade when you were setting it up. Doing rip cuts on 2x4s was not really an option since the offset left you with very little of the base of the saw on the board. For other stuff though, as you said, it's good for the one-off cuts, but repeat cuts are tedious to get *exactly* equal. In a lot of things in woodworking, it's not so much *exact* measurements, but just being able to repeat the cut. A little extra time in the setup of the cut is not that big of a deal if all the subsequent cuts that are exactly like it can be run through the saw as fast as your blade can handle it.

I posted a photo of a wooden frame for a thick piece of tempered glass earlier. I use these for laying out bullets to dry when I'm tumble-lubing. It would have been a royal pain in the butt to cut that groove in the glass and the tongues on the end and have them line up if I had not had my table saw.