1911 and trail boss

[bigted]

Got a brain storm so did a little bit of searching to see if anybody else experimented with the 45acp and trIl boss


Found some but not what I expected ... So I took the advice of the manufacturer ... So took the case and marked it where the boolit base would end up when seated and then fled the case to this mark ... Took this powder and weighed it to find the max load. Won't say what this amount was but I settled on 3.7 grains Trail Boss powder under Lee's 230 grain tumble lube boolit. Sparked by CCI 300 primers.

Loaded 30 of these and took them along with my Springfield tactical model 1911 pistol

I am happy to report a good load overall. Shot them at targets 15 yards distant. Seem very accurate and a nice shooting load. I'm gonna load a bunch more for more tests.

So how bout it ... Anybody here played with Trail Boss in the ol 45 auto?

[Grmps]

The load data I found published was
45 ACP LEE 452 – 230 TC OAL 1.200 RN OAL 1.265
MIN. Vel. (ft/s) MAX. Vel. (ft/s)
TRAIL BOSS 3.5 658 4.5 761

[ReloaderFred]

Hodgdon has loads listed for 230 gr. LRN bullets and TrailBoss here:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

I've used TrailBoss in .44 Special and .45 Colt, plus a couple of loads in .45-70, but haven't tried it in .45 acp. It's excellent in the .44 Spl. and .45 Colt.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[bigted]

Don't know where I got the idea but ... Somewhere I got the impression that you are not supposed to compress Trail Boss ... And yet ... The 4.5 grain load will certainly compress under the 230 grain Lee boolit in the ACP case. Maybe I got the info wrong.

[RPRNY]

Don't know where I got the idea but ... Somewhere I got the impression that you are not supposed to compress Trail Boss ... And yet ... The 4.5 grain load will certainly compress under the 230 grain Lee boolit in the ACP case. Maybe I got the info wrong.

I have had very erratic performance, including major velocity swings with full to the base and pressured if not compressed loads of TB in 45 Colt. Like you, I will not use compressed loads of TB. Haven't tried it in 45 acp.

[osteodoc08]

Why use TB when there's 231 [smilie=l:

[TexasGrunt]

Why use TB when there's 231 [smilie=l:

Or WST or Bullseye.

[bigted]

Well let's see ... It is clean burning (not so much with other powders I've used). I find it meters well through the Lyman auto dispenser. It is impossible to get a double charge. It works very well with cast boolit. And lastly ... I have a bunch of it.

[Love Life]

I have a bunch of it.

'Nuff said, lol.

[mozeppa]

how do you deal with the smell?

[bigted]

Huh ... Smell ... What smell?��

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

P ...

[Joe K]

I have used Trailboss in the 45 auto with good results. Followed data from Hogdon site. Settled on 3.9 grain load under Lee 45 200 SWC. This is a nice practice load and the brass drops fairly close. I don't have a 230 grain mold yet. Hope this helps.

[Loudy13]

Its all I use in my 45 now...and a few subsonic rifle loads as well

[Bigslug]

Why use TB when there's 231 [smilie=l:

Well, actually. . .

The thing that occurred to me to ask on reading this thread was "Is anybody using or experimenting with Trailboss as a match load propellant?"

Seems like a low speed, low recoil, yet fluffly, high case fill rate to encourage a consistent burn would be EXACTLY what the NRA Bullseye guys are after.

I bought an HG68 clone cheap when NOE was blowing them out a few weeks back, and I haven't fired it up yet. Might need to test this notion. . .

[osteodoc08]

Well, actually. . .

The thing that occurred to me to ask on reading this thread was "Is anybody using or experimenting with Trailboss as a match load propellant?"

Seems like a low speed, low recoil, yet fluffly, high case fill rate to encourage a consistent burn would be EXACTLY what the NRA Bullseye guys are after.

I bought an HG68 clone cheap when NOE was blowing them out a few weeks back, and I haven't fired it up yet. Might need to test this notion. . .



I've tried TB in 45. It didn't give me the consistency and accuracy 231 has with my 200gr LSWC loads. Someone mentioned smell and I'll have to agree. It isn't as pleasing as my 231 loads in smell or accuracy.

It has done well for me in 41, 44 and 45 Colt

[Virginia John]

A good clean powder for the .45ACP is Hodgdon Clay.

[Moonie]

I do like Clay's for light loads. I've just loaded 50 38 specials with 3.0 grains under the lee 158rnfp. I also like it in 45acp target loads.

[bigted]

Took my TB loads (3.7 grains) under my 230 grain tumble lube Lee's and it served my purpose very well. At 10 yds i benched my Springfield and got what i considerable accuracy from them. When i can hover in 1.5 and under inch i feel that i have found a potentially good load. Now to be more particular with my boolits and more carefull on case trim as well as primer pockets and chamfering the flash hole. Im betting that i can do a better on accuracy thusly.

Runs my pistol very well with no failures to function. Clean as well with no powder sprinkles left in the bore. My cases seem nice n clean as well. Easy on the shooter and gun. Need to chrono them to discover speeds as well. These are a hoot and fairly inexpensive. Easy to load. Glad to have begun this experiment ... I see nothing but possibility here. I do admit to others loads with various powders but since i only have a couple pounds Unique left and see none available ... I will continue with this Trail Boss powder in loading and shooting and generally having just a grand time.

[bouncer50]

Or WST or Bullseye. Also Green dot, red dot, unique, herco works good.

[Tracy]

I've used 5 grains of Bullseye in .45 ACP with boolit weights up to 260 grains. If you manage to load an accidental double charge of that, you shouldn't be reloading.
There are a few worse applications for TB than .45 ACP. Very few.
It never ceases to amaze me how popular such a limited application powder is, especially considering it costs half again as much as a more suitable powder. I would rather use an equal charge of 700X or Red Dot, even if they were the same price as TB. Which they're not.

If I had a small amount (5 lbs or less) of TB, I would probably use it for the only purpose I consider it good for: subsonic cast boolit loads in full size rifle cartridges. If I had more than 5 lbs, it would be for sale.
I don't have any of it though, because I don't consider it suitable enough for any of my applications to be worth the added cost over other powders.

Trail Boss was designed for low velocity, low recoil loads in cartridges like .45 Colt, for cowboy action shooting. But a lot of people seem to misconstrue that as "you cannot fit a double charge in the case" or even worse, "you cannot fit enough in the case to cause a problem." But according to this article (http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=37), .45 Colt will accept 13.3 grains. That will almost certainly blow up a SAA or clone. Even with the minimum manufacturer published load of 4.5 grains under a 255-260 grain boolit, a double charge of 9 grains will fit in the case and would be well into "Ruger only" category and perhaps beyond.

I recommend that newbie reloaders stop paying the high price for this powder because based on a lot of comments I have read about it on various forums (including this one), it is giving some of you a false sense of security.

[bigted]

Great how we all see things a bit different. I like the Trail Boss powder all in all. Been a reloader since 1968 and shooting trail boss since it came out. For me it works great in a LARGE variety of applications. Others like the above post cant seem to say enough against it ... So be it. Some recognize the value and some don't. Thats life. But for the life of me i do not see bashing others for their preference and likes and dislikes. Not much to gain by posting negative feedback on anothers post. Didn't answer my original question in the least. I could go off on several post7ngs but why.

Dont get it

[TenTea]

I picked up a 9 oz. (?) jug of it for $5 at a gunshow, about 2 years ago, and use it for light cast wadcutter loads.
My wife enjoys them in her S&W 38 special snub, they are clean and accurate.
What's not to like?

[Tracy]

Fine, if you got 9 oz for $5, that's under $9 a pound. I would buy it for that. But the going rate for it is $24/lb in 5 lb jugs vs under $17/lb for 700x. Or to put it another way, 8 lbs of 700x is the same price as 5 lbs of TB. 700x has approximately the same burn rate and will do everything TB will and then some, for less money. I have yet to see any logical reason why TB should be as popular as it is.

And bigted, it seems to me that your question has been answered and the most common answer is "no," followed by explanations as to why that is the answer.

No, I haven't experimented with TB in .45 ACP and this is why.

Have you ever experimented with black powder in .45 ACP?

Have you ever experimented with WC872 in .45 Colt? I have, recently. Successfully too, I might add.

[bigted]

Nope ... No black powder in the ACP ... Yet! I have done so with just about everything else i own ... The only exceptions be the 45acp and the 40s&w. That will prolly be the next great idea i will tackle. Have you loaded and shot BP in your 45 ACP? I have seen video of somebody shooting BP in the ol auto loader but havnt yet ... Bettin its a gas tho.

[Tracy]

Not yet, but a fellow on another forum did so and got it to function in a 1911. He also loaded black in .308 and got a CETME to cycle with it by lubing the cases!

I have tried it in .38 Special, .45 Colt and .480 Ruger, though. Homemade BP in fact.

[bigted]

Lets see .. BP loaded in;

38 spcl, 357 mag, 44 mag, 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 308 winny, 375 H&H, 375 Ruger, 444 Marlin, 45-70, 45-120, 12 gauge, 20 gauge ... Prolly others that slip my mind.

[dverna]

I have to agree with Tracy. TB is a poor choice in .45 ACP.

I thought the CAS shooters were nuts when it became all the rage. Marketing works I suppose.

There are less expensive alternatives that get the job done.

For a careless reloader, there may be some incentive to minimize the chance of a double charge in large capacity cases. But it would be difficult to double charge a normal powder in the .45 ACP.

Promo is a far more versatile powder and about half the cost. I use HP 38 in the .45 ACP but Promo is my back up. I have 8 jugs of it. Promo works in all my pistols, my 12 ga, and is decent in cast rifle bullets.

But it is wonderful to have choices.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I would be cautious with the phrase you can't double charge with a powder. I've loaded up powders to the top of the rim and seated a bullet. I can't tell I'm compressing powder by any extra resistance felt in the lever. A double charge should leave evidence of spilled powder however spilled powder is also a byproduct of high volume loading when no double charge occurred.

Tracy is right on with the application of TB in low pressure high volume cases. Red Dot and so many other powders perform much better but TB was born out of cowboy shooters loading .45 Colt's to hit steel targets at 5 to 7 yards fast.

I've intentionally blown up a SA before testing double charges, maybe I should try to get another SA and do the same with TB.

[bigted]

Point taken. Thanks for the info and replays. I concede that there are better choices ... But kinda already knew this as my absolute favorite pistol powder has to be unique. Spose I should venture out and get some of the powders mentioned just so I know what the commotion is about.

Really do like the replies and suggestions. Don't sound like many have tried the TB in the autoloader.

Sure hope that we can get Unique Gain soon. Down to 2 pounds.

[Markbo]

There is no better powder for .45 acp than Titegroup.

[RoadBike]

There is no better powder for .45 acp than Titegroup.

I've had good luck with 200gr LSWC and Titegroup.

[Tracy]

Titegroup is a good powder for .45 ACP. So is Bullseye. In fact Bullseye used to be my go-to powder for both .45 ACP and .38 Special, but when it became unobtanium I started using other powders to conserve my supply of Bullseye. Lately I've been using Herco.

Btw, I've added .45 ACP to the cartridges I've tried BP in. A few days ago I loaded a few rounds of 230 grain bullet over 22 grains of BP and shot it in my Glock 21. All fired, but none cycled.

[Grmps]

I've been getting good accuracy over a broad range with Autocomp

[TexasGrunt]

There is no better powder for .45 acp than Titegroup.

I'm a big fan of WST and Bullseye. I've got more WST on hand than any other powder. When it runs low I'll give Promo a try.

[17nut]

I loaded 16grains of 4f black powder in some 45 ACP rounds yesterday.
230gr plated bullet.

Worked the slide like a charm and was a hoot to shoot.

[JBinMN]

Red Dot at 4.7 gr. is best for the .45 ACP I use.

I ran from 4.6 to 5.0 with 10 each of TC & RN with a Win LPP primer(Std or Mag) in one set & a Mag pistol Primer in the other set of each one, just to test the differences.

That is 4.6 in 10 TCs + 10 RN at regular LPP(Win), so 20 rounds per "set" for each Gr. load. [100 total rounds], & then 10 TC + 10 RN with LMagPP up to 5.0 one grain at a time. [Another 100 rounds] Same thing with 20 rounds per "set" for each Gr. load. {Total 200 rounds for both types of primers & 100 each of type of boolit shape} all sized at .452 / 100% COWW/ T.Lubed w/45/45/10 (Recluses mix))

I will not be able to chrono anything until tomorrow or the next day, as I am loading some more at 4.7 ave. wth some just abut & below for a final test... but these loads were fairly mild to me with my current "neuropathy issues" in my Right arm/hand. They were shot from sandbags/benched across my Jeep GC hood to 25 yds into a boolit trap I made.
I say "mild" as I am used to using a 44mag SRH with a 7.5 brrl. and not chincy on the varied loads I have shot. This .45 ACP handgun at these loads was a "walk in the park". IMO. 5.1 is the max load from what I understand for this situation.. I don't have a need to run hotter than .1 gr. below max book when I am shooting, as my days of "pushing the envelope" has ended. Memories remain, but... I just like to shoot & do well at it when I can.
;)
YMMV to each of ya...
;)

Only reason I brought this up in a topic about T.B., is that there are some other powders that might be able to do the job if ya decide that TB isn't what ya want. Bullseye & R.Dot are pretty close to the same in what I understand from researching different loads in handguns & one isn't hurt by having more than one load to work with to find what they are looking for. NO different to me than trying a different type of booze to find the flavor ya like in your drink. EH?
;)

I appreciate folks telling their info here in the topic & eventually I will be trying TB in some of my firearms to see just how it works.
:)

G''Luck!
:)

[9.3X62AL]

I haven't tried Trail Boss in any autopistol cartridges. Its use here has been in mid-range Magnum revolver loads (850-900 FPS) for the most part. It did OK with plain-base Lee 405 grain bullets in the Marlin 45/70, but a close-to-100% -density load barely exceeded "sonic" (1119 FPS). Accurate, though--at 50 yards. In 38/55 using the plain-base Lee 250 grain flatnose, speeds with a close-to-100%-density load was in the 1250 FPS ballpark, and accuracy was STELLAR. This bullet REALLY shoots in the 38/55 Win 94 rebore, and with TB things followed suit.

[oldsalt444]

Since I shoot bullseye competition where accuracy is key, I've tried quite a few powders in 45ACP. I've used TB and it works OK, but there is a big variation in velocity. I verified this with a chrono and got standard deviation of 80 fps. That's huge! For accuracy I've found that WST to be the best with CBs. But if you're just plinkin' and such, TB is fine for that.