Smelting with fire.

[Bazoo]

I have been giving this some thought and I want some opinions from others that might have ideas or even may have done something similar.

I have been thinking on how to smelt using wood for fuel. I've been reckoning that If I build sort of a rocket stove for my propane tank pot to set on, it'd work.

I have a steel wheel that im thinking i'll use as the support for the pot, and use either bricks or concrete blocks to support the rim and block the flow of air from all but the bottom. I would cut the rims center out, so that the base of the pot would fit down in it, and it would allow a solid connection so that the pot wouldnt slip against he rim. This would allow the fire to be directly against the bottom of the pot, and the smoke/heat would rise up around the side of the pot, also heating it.

I seen a video on youtube where someone smelted with a fire, and used concrete blocks in this fashion but using a steel grate for the pot. In his case, it was a large skillet. I figure the steel wheel though will make things run great. What say yall?

~Bazoo

[RP]

I smelt with wood, a plain old fire will melt lead add a fan it will speed it up. Not sure about using blocks since they tend to break when heated you could use Fire rated bricks but I would keep the moisture off of them as much as possible.
For the cheap I say a 55 gal barrel fan in the bottom. Load it up with some wood it will not take as much as you may think so I would start small you can always add more. Cutting the fan off will kill the heat to a point allowing you to flux or dip. A block wall between you and the barrel to act as a heat shield will help out too. Now this all depends on how much your going to use it and how often.
If I am smelting a small about around one or two buckets I use my gas burner If I have more then that I fire up the wood burner. Oh your fan will not have to be much a hair dryer will do a lot to boost the heat.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I seen a post, with photo, of someone smelting with a cinder block setup (rocket stove?), but of coarse I can't find it now...I did find this, propane tank with blower.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?265204-Cheap-and-easy-heat-source-to-smelt-lead-outdoors&p=3118072&viewfull=1#post3118072

[country gent]

Using coal or wood to smelt cast there are some things that need to be done a little differently. I have smelterd with stoker coal and a cut off propane tank. You need 2 grates one for the pot to set on and one for the wood and or coal to set on up of the ground. At the ground fuel area you want 3 sides so fuel can be added under the pot, 6"-8" is plenty here as this will allow for a good bed of coals to build up and ashes to drop thru to the ground. The area above the fire pot should be completely enclosed around pot with 4"-6" around the pot open for fuel to burn around sides of pot. I did this with heavy concrete blocks one layer in a C a heavy grate and another layer in a c for the fire pot the grate for the pot to set and a couple complete rings to just under the top of the pot. I then used stoker coal and built the fire in the fire pot and around sides of the pot I used a shop vac for a blower to "boost the out put and get a really good bed of coals going. With good hard wood this will help also. I was melting 400 lbs a crack and could have it molten and ready to flux in an hour. I did 3-4 pots a day each weekend for several weekends of range lead that was given to me like this. Several things to keep in mind. You will have the normal dross to dispose of for sure, Also ashes from the burning fuel wether coal or wood. Some areas have burning restrictions duiring certain times of the year. Neighbors may complain about the smoke from your fire also. Anchor your blocks in place with steel rods stacking them in place in the corners. This set up does work very well if you can get out in the open away from other houses and people and are safe in your set up. One thing is it does set up pretty quick almost anywhere.

[rancher1913]

the rocket stove would melt lead in a hurry but you will have a way hot heat source and could get zinc contamination real easy. seen a thread were a guy used a 55 gallon barrel, put a big pot in the top and built a fire through a cut out hole in the bottom for adding wood, neat set up and I want to copy it someday.

[Bazoo]

I seen a post, with photo, of someone smelting with a cinder block setup (rocket stove?), but of coarse I can't find it now...I did find this, propane tank with blower.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?265204-Cheap-and-easy-heat-source-to-smelt-lead-outdoors&p=3118072&viewfull=1#post3118072

Thanks for the link. Man that barrel stove thing is sweet.

Thanks for all the replies. One of the things that is dictating my set up is what I have on hand. I have a steel wheel already.. but I aint got a 55 gallon drum, or a welder yet. I can weld, and could probably get my hands on one.. if I could cobble all the pieces together.

As for what im thinking, I realized I could set the rim "hub side" up and set the pot down in it, and it would direct the heat up around the pot and help keep a more consistence heat. The base of the propane pot though doesnt set solidly on either the outside or inside of the rim, so im going to cut the hub portion out large enough to accept the base. That will make it secure and I could use it either direction.

I will try to get some pictures whenever I get started on the setup. Been pondering it a while, and I'll report back as to how well it works.

I aint worried about zinc as I have hand sorted with crimpers every weight.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Steel wheel?

I've seen a BBQ fireplace made with two automotive wheels.
http://www.handimania.com/diy/recycled-car-wheel-fire-pit.html

[trapper9260]

I smelt all my lead with wood.I use a cut off freeon tank and also a cast pot. The thing you need to have with the Freeon tank is to keep the hot coals around it other wise it will be too slow.As for a cast pot.It will hold the heat better and able to work with it better.It depends on how much I need to smelt.The thing is it is best to use hard wood if possible. it will make better coals for you to melt the lead or alloy.You do not want it too hot like stated because if you do WW You will also melt the zinc.It is slow at first.As for how i set up is just make a so call camp fire and make sure you got the hot coal and just set the pot on it and then just keep the fire going and go at it.I also have cast that way in the past also.But slow.Used a ladle when I did.But will work.

[P Flados]

See my "pine cone disposal / smelting system" at post 12 of

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?332276-LP-alternatives-to-melt-range-scrap

[GhostHawk]

I don't do it anymore, but back in the 70's when I was starting out a 7" cast iron pan on an open fire was what I used. Fill full of wheel weights, bring it up to temp, start scraping and fluxing.

Takes some patience, a good fire, and long handled tools, but it is one way.

I did recently buy my first turkey fryer, and I now have a large cast dutch oven.

Looking forward to a nice smelting session one of these days.

[beagle]

Old fire brick works fine as a stand and firebox and a used vacuum cleaner works as a bellows. I've done that outdoors with some greasy wheel weights. Works well./beagle

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Not sure about using blocks since they tend to break when heated you could use Fire rated bricks but I would keep the moisture off of them as much as possible.

I think this is an important point. Pressure on those blocks is going to be heavy, and I wouldn't trust concrete under strong heat. The nature of accidents is that they creep up on you when you don't notice progressive deterioration. Proper firebricks are expensive, and the modern cut-them-yourself vermiculite doesn't have much mechanical strength. Still, it isn't a forge or blast furnace, and clay house bricks should be OK.

Having the pot suspended from a tripod or steel beam would take the weight off the structure. It could be lifted to drop in fuel from the top, and only have ventilation holes lower down. I'd still prefer something tubular and all metal.

[Bazoo]

Thanks all.

I have some regular house bricks that i'll probably use instead of cinder blocks.

[Bazoo]

IM EXCITED! It worked! I finally got set up, and smelted my first batch.

I thought it all out pretty good, and set my bricks up a good week before I did anything.

I Had some bricks that was made into columns 2 bricks thick. Each piece is about 10"x20"x20". I set them on edge, 20" side up, in a tryangle of sorts, so that there was an opening just on one corner to feed the fire. Got a fire going, and then put the rim, hub side up on top of the bricks directly over the fire. Then, I set the half propane pot in the rim. The center of the rim let heat directly to the bottom, and the outer holes let heat come up all around the sides of the pot. After I figured out how much fire I needed, it went well. I didnt smelt much, as it got dark on me.

I have a lot of scrap from work, that is about 16" long, and it worked well to stand those up at an angle in my brick triangle. It didnt take nearly as much wood as I would have originally thought.

[ascast]

Maybe too late, but... I once used a piece of broken concrete culvert pipe. It had a big chip out of one end so wood access was good and a small pot would hang right down inside. It was about 1 foot or 14 inch inside diameter. You see these around farms or salvages yards, . I made a lot of ingots off that one. good luck

[Bazoo]

Thanks ascast. Sounds like it was just the ticket.

[country gent]

I did a lot over a stoker coal fire. I liked the bed of hot coals better than the flames. I got the fire going good with the pot in the rims and coals all around and under it the put a shop vac for a blower blowing from underneath to "boost" the heat level once molten was started to see or the cold dropping good I would shut down the vac and start getting ready to flux and clean the metal. In a 16" truck rim a propane tank sits nicely with a little room around for a bed of coals. With wood once the coals are established a small shovel can be used to fill around the pot also. The blower really depletes the wood faster though.

[Bazoo]

I forgot to mention, that the bucket of ww I was working out of, as I was sorting, I found a MAC 5/16 punch and a good 1 1/4 ratchet strap. Sprinkles on top of the icing... as the half of a bucket was given to me.

[Elkins45]

We need pictures.

[Bazoo]

Pictures finally happened today.

Here is the rim with center cut out to accept the base of the propane tank pot.
https://i.imgur.com/z9RA57V.jpg

I did trim some of the weeds as I was waiting for the lead to melt.
https://i.imgur.com/i3WeHpN.jpg

The wheel barrel is there because I had some gravel exploding
https://i.imgur.com/NVl5oJw.jpg

I used a 5 gallon bucket of wood scrap from the shop to do about 30 pounds of lead.
https://i.imgur.com/4wLjkvb.jpg

[Bookworm]

Nice pics. I like seeing other ways of doing things.

I like your idea, better than a Rocket Stove. I've tried a Rocket Stove, but any time saved with it was used up breaking branches down small enough to fit in the combustion chamber of the stove. I don't want to spend an hour gathering windfall, and cutting/breaking it down to 10".

I also tried another way. When I burned a brush pile, I set a full pot of CWW next to the inferno. That worked, but getting the pot out of the bazillion degree ember pile proved problematic. I figured to use a stick to hook under the pot bail, pick it up (all 80 pounds of liquid, sloshing lead, plus the cast iron pot) and swing it out to cooler environs, where I would ladle the shimmering goodness into ingot moulds.
The problem: Any stick long enough to get me away from the skin-searing heat made it impossible to levitate the pot, because of that pesky geometry/physics thing.

I may try the type of stove you built. I have lots of dead oak and elm branches, free for the taking. I like the idea of 'free' heat. I also have a brake drum off a big truck, that should suffice to use in place of the wheel you used.

It's just that firing up the propane burner is so convenient.....

[Bazoo]

I dont have any other method, and I cobbled this together for free, so it works for me To start with, I didnt cut the center of the rim, just to try it. It worked, but I believe it works some better this way, as more heat is directly on the bottom of my pot. Another thing, that I think helps a lot, is that the heat/hot gas, is all directed up around the sides of the pot through the holes in the edge of the rim.

Being a carpenter, I always have an excess of small wood to use as fuel. If I was down to gathering sticks... i'd probably try to gather some pallets to break up for fuel

I got the idea from a thread here, where a guy built a stove out of a 55 gallon drum, and sunk his pot into the top. He had a door on the side, built a fire inside and hit vent out of a short stack behind his pot. I'd really like to do that sometime.

[Rcmaveric]

good job. Add that to my dream house. Still living in an apartment and turkey fryer keeps me out of trouble and mobile.

[Bazoo]

I tried smelting with fire once, just over a fire. I had a pretty good camp fire going. So hot I couldnt really get close enough to do anything. I've been pondering on the idea of making some sort of rocket stove so I can utilize sticks and cast while camping. I know its better to take your pre made ammo, and forget loading, and casting in the field. I just want to play with it though.

[richhodg66]

I've been using wood fire for a few years now, since I moved to my current place. I'm on 18 acres of woods, nearest neighbors are half a mile away. Basically, I have unlimited firewood.

I need to make a better set up. I have two big steel bars suspended across cinder blocks that hold up a big Dutch oven with a lid. Works pretty well but I need something better than the cinder blocks.

[Bazoo]

Here is the thread that I mentioned.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?144205-CUSTOM-Wood-Fired-Lead-Smelting-Furnace

[ThomR]

I have a 55 gallon barrel that I can use to melt lead with. I have it stood on end with a hole in the side near the bottom and a hole on the top. Basically a huge rocket stove. It doesn't take a lot of wood to melt lead, and it gets really really hot. On more than one occasion I've seen the side of the barrel start glowing orange.

[Bazoo]

ThomR, do you build the fire on the bottom? or do you have a grate that the fire is built on with the air intake below?

[ThomR]

ThomR, do you build the fire on the bottom? or do you have a grate that the fire is built on with the air intake below?

I just throw the wood in. There is no grate on the bottom of the barrel. The hole on the top is pretty big. I can fit up to 8" diameter logs in it.
It gets hot enough that if one were so inclined you could melt down entire car batteries in a large cast iron pot. I don't recommend doing that, but it could be done.

[Bazoo]

Im thinking... Might make me a smelting set up, combined with a wood stove for the shop. All i'd have to do is arrange a hood of sorts for use when smelting, and I got a mean exhaust fan I could use. Then smelt in the wintertime and kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I already use a barrel stove in the shop, but it'll need replacing one day.

[ThomR]

Im thinking... Might make me a smelting set up, combined with a wood stove for the shop. All i'd have to do is arrange a hood of sorts for use when smelting, and I got a mean exhaust fan I could use. Then smelt in the wintertime and kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I already use a barrel stove in the shop, but it'll need replacing one day.

I wonder if using a second barrel on top of the actual burn barrel would retain enough heat to melt lead. You might be able to just stick a shelf in the top barrel and put a cast iron pan in it. If it works, then you don't need to worry about ventilation as all the fumes will go out the stove pipe.

[Bazoo]

That aint a bad idea. Probably work if I had a roaring fire, I've seen the pipe get red hot OUTSIDE the building. Drive me out though when its that hot.

[P Flados]

An "oven" above a "stove/fireplace" certainly has potential.

However, to get good "smelting performance" you would need either a really large/vigerous buring fire, and/or minimal "heat losses" between the "stove" and the "oven" and minimal heat losses at the oven itself.

Old woodburning cook stoves had an oven, but we are looking for tempertures well above what those stoves were designed for.

As an engineer, the challenge of coming up with a combination shop heating stove and smelting oven sound fun. On the other hand, I have tried a bunch of stuff that I just could not get to "work out like it should".

I encourage experimentation. Just try to not underestimate what it will take to get he job done.

[TaylorS]

Not to hijack the thread but how are fire bricks made? Special type of Crete? All the cinder blocks and red bricks are just molded. It might be feasible to make fire bricks at a good discount from store bought....


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[nun2kute]

I seen a Beer Keg at the scrap yard the other day and was thinking just what you did. Hmmmmm ... I wonder if it's still there !?

[Bazoo]

All the kegs I ever seen were aluminum. Everyone says it's a no go for melting lead.

[lightman]

I've never smelted using wood. I've always liked the convenience of natural gas or propane. If I lived in the country and had an abundant wood supply I would try it.

[Bazoo]

I've got a lot of small wood from work that's just right. I'm thinking now about making a smaller setup to use with the Lyman cast iron pot. It'll be interesting to see if I can regulate the temperature enough to keep the mould at a good temp.

[edp2k]

I seen a Beer Keg at the scrap yard the other day and was thinking just what you did. Hmmmmm ... I wonder if it's still there !?

Beer kegs are aluminum.
Using it for a pot for smelting is a bad idea since AL melts at a relatively low temp, and loses its strength long before then.
Using it for a burn barrel is a bad idea since AL burns. Navy used to make ship superstructures out of AL until one burnt down.

[Conditor22]

I know this is an old thread but-- that is too cool :)

[ChuckO]

All the kegs I ever seen were aluminum. Everyone says it's a no go for melting lead.

A lot of beer kegs are stainless steel, look at some of the home brewing websites for ideas on cutting/modifying them.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

All the kegs I ever seen were aluminum. Everyone says it's a no go for melting lead.


A lot of beer kegs are stainless steel, look at some of the home brewing websites for ideas on cutting/modifying them.

I had a SS Keggle (Brew pot) that I just gave my neighbor now that he started brewing Beer. I made it from a old Hamms Beer 16 gal keg, that was made in England (thought that was interesting) and it surely was Stainless Steel.

[Krag1902]

I always smelt at a state campsite and bring fix or six oak pallets cut up in small sections. I just start a fire in one of the fire pits that has a grate. It's all free. I find it a bit hard to regulate temperature but it doesn't take long to get a dutch oven stoked with COWW reduced to ingots. The nice part is that there is not a lot of bulky burners and propane tanks to won and store

[truckjohn]

A lot of you guys are way over complicating how simpl it is to smelt over plain old wood fire. All you need is a fire, a cheap beater Dutch oven, and fireproof blacksmith or foundry gloves/apron.

The choice of what fuel to use is mainly an economic question... if you have to buy wood - it probably doesn't make sense vs gas. If wood is free (and you have the space to do it safely) but you gotta buy gas - then wood is a no brainer.

And I have way more wood than I know what to do with down at the farm

I smelt range scrap in a cheap junk Dutch oven over wood. Wheel weights get smelted in my 20# Lee pot. It just takes such a huge amount of heat and way too much time to do range scrap in an electric melter...... and I used up a whole bbq tank full of propane on my 1st good range scrap smelting run and only got through half the range scrap.

The real key is to make a good fire to start with. Start the smelting process in that - then when it starts burning down - that's the time to pull the lid and start stirring. Then feed less wood into it to keep the heat about right. Off you go.

Good leathers and fireproof gloves are definately a must have though.

[bobthenailer]

One time I did a large melt with wood ,its harder to control temp , you can overheat the alloy , + with the possibility of zinc in WW . I would not use wood fire again to process any alloy, buy a turkey fryer kit and use propane with a dutch oven with a lid and a thermometer. through a hole drilled in the lid

[FLINTNFIRE]

So back to the beer kegs , in a tavern though they have yuppied themselves up since I was there years ago and the urinals were beer kegs cut and adapted , was pretty good work and funny. Have smelted in fire , have cast using a pan and fire as a teen , I find that my trucks brake drum fire pit with a bed of coals and toss my cut in half propane tank full of scrap drop a splash of waste oil in it along with some saw dust of whatever I cut on tablesaw last and come back next day to find a large pretty clean chunk of lead , the scrap was old fishing net lead , some of it was cast around outside of line every so far and the newer is inside the line it is a pain .

[Bazoo]

I primarily started smelting with wood because I couldn't afford a propane setup. I had everything I used already for free so, for me it just makes sense. Heat control doesn't seem to be an issue, I don't run real hot anyways. I hand sort all weights I melt so I don't have any chance of zinc contamination, that includes nipping each weight with a set of dikes.

Thanks all for the comments and ideas. I have a new project I'm pondering on, casting with a wood fired melting pot. I have a small air tank that I'm thinking of using to make a rocket stove setup and see how it works. If and when I get it going I'll start a new thread about that with pictures. Aught to be a challenge.

[Petander]

I used to use open fire in a barbeque-like setup with a dutch oven to clean my WW.

I also did lots of casting with ladle like that,the same open fire setup, for many years. I still do both in my summer place every now and then.

[rockrat]

Can you use a barrel for a melting pot? Reason is, I have a barrel about 2/3 's full of range scrap I need to melt. I have a 30 gal drum I could cut in half to make things a bit easier to manage, but unsure if it would have the strength to keep its shape.

Might have to go down to the metal yard and see if I can pick up a cut off end of a 250 gal. propane tank.

[merlin101]

I wouldn't use a barrel, it might work just fine but do you really want to find out it won't? I'd keep the pot smaller just for the fact that you'r more likely to reuse it later than some big monster that uses a full cord off wood to fire it and make a pour. I use a regular BBQ sized take and fill almost to the top and guess it holds about 100lbs. Having a larger tank would be nice sometimes but I'm about done in after the second pot full anyway.

[sailcaptain]

As for Truckjohn.....I agree completely.
I just posted to a Stickie on bullet mold and no handles the following:
And if I could do this at 15 years old, don't over think the process.

USE CAUTION AND FOLLOW THE RULES REGARDING BREATHING IN FUMES ETC., TAKE YOUR TIME, ITS NOT A RACE , but

Here's how I started

I started casting boolits by first learning to cast lead sinkers. I had a old 6 sinker metal mold I got somewhere. I was 14 or 15 at the time.
I was a junior shooter at a local club that was being torn down after the building was sold and the new owner had other uses in mind for the building than a shooting range. We're talking late 1960's here.
So, I got the idea of digging out the lead from the backstop area and selling it for cash. Now we're talking real lead now!
Well after a weekend of digging and riding back and forth on my bike, I had enough lead for all the sinkers I could use in a life time and then some.
That lead followed me around to 4 houses, always ending up in the back of the garage somewhere, because "you never know".
Then I got into casting for bullets.
I did all my melting from a 6 inch wide cast iron pot and a ladle. Sometimes over a fire, sometimes with a propane touch. That's how high tech I was at the time.
And I too, didn't have a set of handles for a .45 caliber mold that was given to me by older man who just didn't want it any more, let alone the metal sinker mold. But he did give me a very nice thick chunk of burnt cork that the mold sat in, and I used that for two years.

So we all have to start somewhere. For me it was sinkers and yes the feeling is back in my hand also.