Winchester 1895 .35 WCF yeeeha

[ANick57]

As one might expect by the title, *someone* just got his grubby mitts on a pretty darned nice 1895 in .35 WCF., date of manufacture looks to be late in 1903. Bore is bright, internals look like there's not been many rounds cycled through the gun at all. The blue is decently intact, as in largely all there with some thin areas, no notable rust. The wood is, by my inexpert eye, as finished original, with only some amount of character marks thumped into the wood over the decades. It has had a sling attachment dovetailed into the barrel with a mate in the buttstock. And it does have the 38 Lyman in place and looking healthy.

I have yet to get the camera setup for the obligatory portraiture, so for now you will have to take my word for it. The grin on my face should be enough evidence though.

Why the .35 WCF? Did I want a rifle that not only hasn't had ammunition stocked since before VHS and Beta were feuding? No, not at all. I wanted a rifle that the quest for brass was on par with the Search for the Holy Grail !!! Actually, I found a source for Jamison unfired, new brass, which from the price, might have put that more on the way of Jason and the Golden Fleece. Be that as it may, I have the rifle, I have the brass in a quantity just below hoarding and comfortably above expected use which means that sometime this year I will get to eat something other than Top Ramen. ;) Dies are on order, due at the door in the next day or two.

Granted, the magazine length is a limiter, but with bullets choices in .35 for the Whelan available, I'd think that something might be borrowed for the WCF. Not being a tube magazine, pointy bullets are a possibility, as long as they'll stabilize in the 1-12 twist of the 95. Allegedly, though the .405 had a bunch more energy at the muzzle, the .35 retained energy better out further. That said, the round is not a .25-06. The test will be what kind of accuracy can be achieved and to what ranges using the stock sights? That of course is its own quest, but I'd think 200 yards is a viable max.

So, the great experiments are getting lined up. I've found a few loads on line, but I'm starting to look for older reloading manuals that have information for the .35 WCF. There's a caveat on the older books of course. Powders, even the same named powder, can change over time. So there's also going to be some validation of powders to work out. My thought there is that a given powder listed for the .35 WCF that is also used in something like the .30-06 will let me compare current loads for the '06 against that older manual's data and give a clue for the current powder in the .35 WCF. It's not at all a perfect plan, but with judicial use of cross-checking sources and a bit more prowling of the web, I'm somewhat confident I can find a starting point or two.

I haven't found much recent activity around for the .35 WCF, but there are a few old archived threads to be found. I'll be mining those, but thought I'd put a little fresher feeler out here.

Thanks
ANick
196820196815196821196817196813196822196819196814

[Reverend Al]

Congratulations on finding your 1895 in .35 WCF! I'm also a lover of all things .35 calibre and I found and bought a similar '95 rifle a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, so far it's still on the "back burner" along with several other project guns, but at the time I bought it I dug through some of my older reloading manuals (mostly vintage Lyman editions) and made the following notes for future reference. I bought 100 rounds of Hornady .405 brass that I will reform into .35 WCF and if I can find a suitable source of .30-40 Krag brass (a lot tougher to find up here in Canada than our common as dirt .303 British) I'll try extruding it out to full length to form some more .35 WCF brass since I bought a Kal Max Case Stretcher from Red River Rick a while back too. (With the dies to lengthen .30-30's into .32-40 and .38-55's, .303's and .30-40 Krag into .35 WCF and .405 WCF, and .45-70's into .45-90's and .40-82's). I can try lengthening some .303 Brits too, but the .30-40 Krag would give me a head start on lengthening them to .35 WCF.)

.35 WCF Loading Data

Maximum loaded COAL of 3.15 to 3.20 inches to fit in 1895 Winchester rifle magazine.

For Lyman # 358315 200 grain

4759 17 grains 1550 fps
4198 27 grains 1700 fps
3031 33 grains 1680 fps
4064 35 grains 1730 fps
unique 12 grains 1450 fps

For Lyman # 358318 250 grain

4759 20 grains 1600 fps
4198 25 grains 1550 fps
4895 40 grains 1950 fps
3031 34 grains 1675fps
4064 36 grains 1720fps
4320 17 grains 1550fps

[Reverend Al]

As always, given the age of the manuals I used to source them please take the above loads with a large grain of salt and start low and work up carefully. The old manuals showed heavier loads with the heavier bullets than they did with the lighter bullets so as always with vintage guns I'd tend to be a bit conservative to start and go from there ...

[jrmartin1964]

Congratulations! A Model 1895 in .35 Winchester is on my "one of these days" list.

Here's load data from Lyman's 42nd Edition (1960), the last from them to provide load info for the .35 Winchester:
196534
Usual disclaimer, grain of salt, all that sort of stuff applies!

Ken Waters' book "Pet Loads" includes his November 1990 article on loading for the .35 Win., but bear in mind he was using a Browning 1895 of recent manufacture - originally a .30-40 - that he had re-bored and re-chambered.

[MT Chambers]

You'll like that gun more and more, mine is in .303 British.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Have no regrets getting a 1895 ! We do await even an ugly photo of your fine 95 / 35.
I guess if I could have any it would be a 95 in 375 Whelan .... But I am content with the book end calibers... 30 Gov and 405.
Mike in Peru

[Beerd]

Hey there, ANick!
WELCOME to Castboolits!

More than one of us here is envious of your latest acquisition.
..

[ANick57]

Beerd,
Well, that combination always seemed to make a lot of sense, lever, .35, pointy bullet options. The funny thing is, I remember looking at the 95 back in my formative years and thinking it was just plumb homely!! Well, once upon a time I didn't care for parsnips either. Actually, I still don't like parsnips, but the '95 started to look pretty darned handsome! I found it on-line of course. One of the big outdoor companies (can I say the name Cabela's in here?) had it on the right side of the map. For $25 they sent it over to the more local store and I could go look at it, no commitments!!
Turns out, they'd just dropped the price. And there was a 10% off event going in the store... and there was just no way in the world I was going to leave it behind!! Got out of there eventually. I spotted a Win. 62A sitting on the back row of a case, looking sad, dejected and in need of adoption. Other than 4 holes tapped on the left side of the receiver for a scope mount, it was practically new. I doubt it has had a couple of bricks through it! Anyway, I was looking it over, being nice to it, and wouldn't you know it perked right up and wanted to play. Well, call me a sucker for a cute little .22, but I had to take it home too!

Reverend Al, can you order from Nacheez up there? They didn't have any problem supplying the .35 brass .. maybe not exactly cheap, but not too bad.

Okay... enough. Dodged a Monday, but there's still Tuesday morning coming to substitute for it.


Be well all.

[Reverend Al]

No luck to order brass of any calibre from the US up to Canada ... ITAR put the brakes on that with their regulations after 9/11. Funny thing is that shotgun components including brass cases can be shipped up, but nothing in rifle or pistol calibre brass. No problem though, I can get by with the re-formed .405 cases until I stretch some .30-40 Krag or .303 British cases with the Kal Max Case Stretcher ...

[26Charlie]

I should think you could use .358 Winchester loads for cast bullets only, as case capacity looks similar. I have a Savage M99 .358, and use 200 and 250 grain CBs with great success.

[ANick57]

Charlie,
Curious, what's the twist rate on your 99?

[26Charlie]

ANick57; never actually checked the twist on the M99. Just assumed it was the 1:16 standard for .35 Remington etcetera. Have shot the latter with 200, 250, and even the 280 gr Lyman 358009 fat RN with success.

[muskeg13]

Congrats. I've had good luck forming .35Win from new Hornady .405 brass. I just did an initial rough trim with a tubing cutter, used good sizing lube (Imperial), and slowly formed the cases in a .35 Win Redding sizing die a little bit at the time and rotated the cases before the next pass. I did a final trim and they were ready to load. It got fairly fast after the first few. Never tried the .30-40 route, and I hear they will end up a bit short. In a pinch, you may even be able to use .303 Brit brass,but they would have even shorter necks.

[Thin Man]

One of my friends is telling me that he is dangerously close to owning a Winchester 1895 in 35 WCF caliber. He is a handloader but prefers to use only original, properly roll marked brass for all of his handloading. His plan (if he buys this rifle) is to purchase a small quantity of newly manufactured 35 WCF ammo from Selway Armory. This ammo is Precision Cartridge origin priced at $53.99 per box of 20 rounds. With all the issues from converting 30-40 Krag and 303 British over to 35 Winchester I'm not sure I would disagree with his decision.

[ANick57]

One of my friends is telling me that he is dangerously close to owning a Winchester 1895 in 35 WCF caliber. He is a handloader but prefers to use only original, properly roll marked brass for all of his handloading. His plan (if he buys this rifle) is to purchase a small quantity of newly manufactured 35 WCF ammo from Selway Armory. This ammo is Precision Cartridge origin priced at $53.99 per box of 20 rounds. With all the issues from converting 30-40 Krag and 303 British over to 35 Winchester I'm not sure I would disagree with his decision.

No firsthand info on how it holds up, but I did get 400 pcs of (appropriately marked) .35 WCF Jamison from Natchez at $1.30 per. I went over to Selway to look at theirs, but all I saw was .351 Win (autoloader) brass?

[Shawlerbrook]

A 1895 in any caliber is a treasure. Congrats and can't wait for the pictures.

[Dan Cash]

I have a 1900 vintage 1895 with the Lyman sight as yours though mine is not so well preserved and is in .30-40. Over the last 7 years that I have owned it, it has become my go to rifle for any serious work and it has worked well on deer. I thought to claim an elk with it but could not get closer than 350 yards so passed. There is the odd buffalo in my country and I would not hesitate to use the 05 with one of my PP 215 grain bullets on one but your .35 would be better.

[ANick57]

Added the eye candy to the original post above. :)

Now, you will notice that one of these two is missing a lever? Well, that's because if I just took pictures of the 95, the 62a would get all huffy about the lack of attention. The older would get all defensive. Feelings would be hurt, etc., etc. So, I'll have to apologize for dumping the extra pics on you folks.196824

You might notice what looks like a smear or a bit of a fault in the bluing on the left side of the 62a in the larger version pic in the thread start post? Here's a closer look. It's a leaf and grass reflecting off the side... took me a minute to spot that. :)

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Twist rate on the Savage 99 .358 is usually 1-12, for all years and Savage factory barrels.

[cwtebay]

Congratulations! A Model 1895 in .35 Winchester is on my "one of these days" list.

Here's load data from Lyman's 42nd Edition (1960), the last from them to provide load info for the .35 Winchester:
196534
Usual disclaimer, grain of salt, all that sort of stuff applies!

Ken Waters' book "Pet Loads" includes his November 1990 article on loading for the .35 Win., but bear in mind he was using a Browning 1895 of recent manufacture - originally a .30-40 - that he had re-bored and re-chambered.Hello, I don't know if this thread is still active but I would love to see a good photo of your Lyman manual on the 35 WCF. My sons and daughter and I all 6 use a '95 in 35 for our timber elk hunting rifle. Any "new " load data is very welcome!!
Thank you for your help.

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

[Pioneer2]

The Win 95's are neat guns,mine is in .303 British 28" pipe.Darkish bore but still shoots VG. I thought if it ever kicks the bucket I'd have it re-bored to .338-.303 British and run 200gr bullets.

[bob208]

I have a 95 in .35mine is a takedown. I made brass for mine from.444 brass. with that case you some times have to swage the head soe times not. I also have a 95 in .30-40.

[cwtebay]

Hello, I don't know if this thread is still active but I would love to see a good photo of your Lyman manual on the 35 WCF. My sons and daughter and I all 6 use a '95 in 35 for our timber elk hunting rifle. Any "new " load data is very welcome!!
Thank you for your help.

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using TapatalkI have a couple in 30 Army, one a flatside, a 405, and the half dozen 35's. The sheer knockdown power of that round is diproportionate to its actual ballistics!! I am on the lookout for another 35 for my youngest son, he will be of hunting age soon.
For those of you that use a receiver sight - what are your likes / dislikes about them? Several of our 95's came with Lyman, Williams type included but I removed them in favour of a Marble's semi-buckhorn.
Another question: I came across a small quantity of 250gr soft point bullets some time ago that have a long profile and round nose. I see the same in a box of original ammunition I have from 1903. Any idea where one could procure these? All of my 35's seem to like them, and performance on game has been tremendous!
(the attached photo has some "newer" original loads with the bullets I'm referring to - other cartridge has a 200gr load for reference) https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/2b52b955375b7341c2396108fea6320d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/7891cdb747048aae53e930b590cbf2b9.jpg

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

[starmac]

You do know you can click on the photo and enlarge it don't you? I imagine you do, but just in case. lol

[RPRNY]

Awesome! Great cartridge. If not already noted above, Ken Waters did a 1990s piece on 35 WCF. I have a 35 Krag which is very, very similar. Would love to exchange load data one you get going. In an 1895, it's more 358 Win than 35 Whelen but a great elk and black bear round.

[Bent Ramrod]

I think Bob Hagel also did an article on the .35 Winchester, which covered case forming, loading and hunting with it. Can’t remember if it was in Rifle or Handloader.

I got my 95 in .35 Winchester because I figured it was the most versatile caliber offered. Plinking loads with cast boolits, “varmint loads” with .357 Magnum jacketed bullets, all the way up to the full-house loadings with my stash of Herter’s 250-gr roundnoses, where the ballistics are close enough to the .358 Winchester that it’s doubtful that the game would complain that it wasn’t shot enough.

A sadly under appreciated caliber. Cases can be made from Hornady .405 brass, necked and trimmed.

[cwtebay]

You do know you can click on the photo and enlarge it don't you? I imagine you do, but just in case. lolYes. But the data blurs out when I enlarged. Thank you though!

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

[Pioneer2]

How much work is it to form cases from .405 Win ?

[starmac]

Yes. But the data blurs out when I enlarged. Thank you though!

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
That is weird, my eyes are nothing great, but I can (barely) read it when enlarged.

[cwtebay]

That is weird, my eyes are nothing great, but I can (barely) read it when enlarged.You're right - I looked on a laptop, easily read. Apologies!

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

[Bent Ramrod]

I had 50 pieces of new Hornady .405 brass. As best I recall, I had an old .375 H&H sizing die in the Miscellaneous pile, and used that to start the mouth reduction process. I set the die deep enough so the mouth of the case was about .35 caliber. Then I ran the cases through the .35 Winchester sizer with the expander/decapper removed. Then I cut them to approximate length, ran them through the sizer again, this time with the expander/decapper inserted, and trimmed them to the final length. Then I annealed them, mainly because I felt guilty for not having done so in the first place.

Didn't lose a case, and haven’t after at least five reloads each. That Hornady brass is good stuff.

For important jobs like this, it’s Imperial Sizing Wax all the way.

I recall that Hagel necked up .30-40 brass to make slightly short cases. The .405 revival was years in the future then, but he said that the cases made from Krag brass worked fine.

[ANick57]

I have a couple in 30 Army, one a flatside, a 405, and the half dozen 35's. The sheer knockdown power of that round is diproportionate to its actual ballistics!! I am on the lookout for another 35 for my youngest son, he will be of hunting age soon.
For those of you that use a receiver sight - what are your likes / dislikes about them? Several of our 95's came with Lyman, Williams type included but I removed them in favour of a Marble's semi-buckhorn.
Another question: I came across a small quantity of 250gr soft point bullets some time ago that have a long profile and round nose. I see the same in a box of original ammunition I have from 1903. Any idea where one could procure these? All of my 35's seem to like them, and performance on game has been tremendous!
(the attached photo has some "newer" original loads with the bullets I'm referring to - other cartridge has a 200gr load for reference) https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/2b52b955375b7341c2396108fea6320d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180131/7891cdb747048aae53e930b590cbf2b9.jpg

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


I've been remiss in keeping up on this project, a bit of a pleasant time sink training the 'the pup', field tests and the like. I just need more spare time is all. Surely I don't want to reduce the number of hobbies?!

Anyway.

Cwtebay, just curious how your '95s do with the 200 gr versus the 250 gr? The 1:12 twist on the 95's should like a heavier bullet than the .358 Winchester which I've seen referenced as having a 1:16. Likewise, I'm wondering if that little 200 gr is playing nice yet with the 1:12.

On the other end of the spectrum, the question of how light a bullet will this beast still keep tight. Not that it is likely to edge out a 6mm for varmit popping range/accuracy.

Will keep an eye out for the 250 RN. So far, I haven't found it in a mold for cast, and though it has been a while now, I don't recall seeing a jacketed offering yet either.

News when there is some!

Nick

[cwtebay]

I've been remiss in keeping up on this project, a bit of a pleasant time sink training the 'the pup', field tests and the like. I just need more spare time is all. Surely I don't want to reduce the number of hobbies?!

Anyway.

Cwtebay, just curious how your '95s do with the 200 gr versus the 250 gr? The 1:12 twist on the 95's should like a heavier bullet than the .358 Winchester which I've seen referenced as having a 1:16. Likewise, I'm wondering if that little 200 gr is playing nice yet with the 1:12.

On the other end of the spectrum, the question of how light a bullet will this beast still keep tight. Not that it is likely to edge out a 6mm for varmit popping range/accuracy.

Will keep an eye out for the 250 RN. So far, I haven't found it in a mold for cast, and though it has been a while now, I don't recall seeing a jacketed offering yet either.

News when there is some!

NickANick57 - I had a great deal of difficulty coming up with a load when I first started down the 35wcf road. I tried 200, 225, 250, oddball grain cast.... Finally I started on a two piece box of Winchester ammunition that I had for display - voila!!! The 250gr long round nose was the ticket! Alas, the only maker of the beast is Woodleigh, which I love but my pocket book groans. I have 8 rifles chambered in 35 WCF now, and the rifling rate is 1:12 in all but two of my 95's (1:10 inch the others, which I was told was a change in the mid teens). The 95's will all group in a half playing card at 100 yards, the Remington Lee a bit better, and the repro Browning 95 ca 1980's I had rechambered is best at 1.5" consistently (1:12 rate) I would like to find a mould that would mimic the Woodleigh ogive / contour / length but have not thus far. As an aside; I bought out all of the Kynoch 35 Winchester ammunition I could find when it was discontinued a bit back and found it to be loaded with the Woodleigh and the performance is spectacular!!!
Does anyone know of a production mould that is close to the Woodleigh? A munitions buddy figures that the 1:12 would best fit a spitzer at around 2600fps - a velocity that I have not been able to attain but should be awe inspiring with the lighter Barnes bullet.
I look forward to hearing the replies from the cast gurus!

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[CamoWhamo]

FYI. QuickLoad has data for the .35 Win.

So, if you have the measurements for case water capacity in grains, the bullet, OAL, trim length etc, QL can calculate some loads using modern powders.

[Reverend Al]

Modern powders? What are these modern powders of which you speak?

:shock:

[smokeywolf]

Think I saw an inquiry as to which receiver sight we prefer on the Model '95.

While the "Climbin' Lyman" is what is usually seen on a Model '95 receiver, I prefer the Lyman 41.