Tried some Round ball

[54bore]

Tried it, didn't like it, and wont be messing with it anymore. .015 and Ticking .018 patches .530 Round ball, 60 Grains of Swiss 3F, shot about a 4" group at 50 Yards, Now we're cookin with peanut oil [smilie=w: Waste of lead, powder, and time. My opinion of course

This was from my TC New Englander, i tried my paper patch bullets first with a felt over powder wad this time instead of the Vegetable fibre wads, same junk accuracy. The roundballs actually out shot the paper patch by a hair. The New Englander is gonna get a nice bath, dry it up good, pour it full of oil (should make a Tikki torch out of it, and put it in the yard) i might shoot it again years down the road if i come down with Dementia and forget how crappy it shot

196507

[bubba.50]

aw hell, just send that aggravatin' eyesore to my house so's ya don't have it settin' around mockin' ya anymore.

[54bore]

aw hell, just send that aggravatin' eyesore to my house so's ya don't have it settin' around mockin' ya anymore.

If it weren't for it being gifted to me bubba.50 I would have been rid of it a LONG LONG time ago! This little rifle is what started my obsession with Muzzleloaders, Sure a good thing i ended up finding 2 GM LRH barrels to REALLY set the fire in me, Cuz it sure as heck would have fizzled out LOOOONG ago with this thing! Its hard to shoot a gun like this after shooting my GM barrels, and set trigger Hawken, and Renegades. As i was leaving my shooting range this morning i glanced over at my 505 yard rock and smiled, thinking it would NEVER have happened, nor even came close with this little New Englander.

The ONLY thing I haven't tried with this rifle is greased Maxi balls, maybe one of these days it will be boring enough to try

[triggerhappy243]

54bore, you are being too hard on yourself. you made shots with a caplock that would make an inline shooter go crying home to mama. I cannot see you just giving up that easy.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

4" group at 50 yards won't make anyone cry other than the shooter! :D :D

I just got off the 100 yard range with my traditions st.louis hawken and did a 3" group. I hope to improve that, but for now, shes elk ready.

Never been a TC fan personally. I hate their super tight bores that barely load a powerbelt. I had one TC renegade that was an absolute dream with no problems. But that is the ONLY one ever! Everything else was a headache.

[triggerhappy243]

renegades were never cut to shoot powerbelts.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

How so? Mine shot them perfect and loaded perfect. Every tc hawken on the other hand, were super tight to reload and patched balls were another terrible problem to load. I remember I got a new one in, loaded one shot, fired, cleaned it and sold it a week later lol. Terrible rifle to reload.

[triggerhappy243]

Muzzle loaders are like women. You have to rub them just soo, in order to get them to perform the way you want them. I have two 54 cal renegades that shoot 4 inch groups if i do my part at 100 yards. Yes, patched rb do fit real tight. I live with it.

[mooman76]

I don't think 4" at 50y is all that great but not terrible bad either especially your first time out. You gun I am sure is capable of better. Just needs some load work done. You should be able to cut the 4" in half or less.

[54bore]

54bore, you are being too hard on yourself. you made shots with a caplock that would make an inline shooter go crying home to mama. I cannot see you just giving up that easy.

What it really is with me is the Round Ball itself, i could probably get this gun to shoot Round Ball better, by playing with patch ball combo and powder charge, BUT why even bother when i have several other rifles that will cut this thing in half, and i am more comfortable with them. The New Englander is NOT a great fit for me. And shooting Round ball just doesn't excite me. Maybe in one of my pistols, but no Round balls for my rifles. I am definitely a boolit shooter, paper patched and sized that is

[rfd]

lewis, what's the twist on that rifle you patch balled? fast? (i'll bet).

[bubba.50]

it's a stock New Englander so, that would be the T/C standard 1 in 48 twist.

[Good Cheer]

Tried it, didn't like it, and wont be messing with it anymore. .015 and Ticking .018 patches .530 Round ball, 60 Grains of Swiss 3F, shot about a 4" group at 50 Yards, Now we're cookin with peanut oil [smilie=w: Waste of lead, powder, and time. My opinion of course

This was from my TC New Englander, i tried my paper patch bullets first with a felt over powder wad this time instead of the Vegetable fibre wads, same junk accuracy. The roundballs actually out shot the paper patch by a hair. The New Englander is gonna get a nice bath, dry it up good, pour it full of oil (should make a Tikki torch out of it, and put it in the yard) i might shoot it again years down the road if i come down with Dementia and forget how crappy it shot

196507

Just a passing thought, did you ever try a bullet in it that would slip down the bore despite that flat bottom on the QLA counterbore? The twist is too slow for a solid base but maybe a minie?
Lyman made a real nice heavy skirt design .54 minie.
There are also some dandy thin skirted ones on the market for lesser charges.
Anyhow, just thinking out loud.

[Harleysboss]

Now I offered you a cool custom new englander with a fast twist 52 cal barrel and you bowed out. When I get that thing up and running I don't want no tears for the deadly piece that its sure to be. LOL. Its coming together, waiting on wads and sizer die.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I'd start taking 5 shot groups as well. To me the first 2 shots look great, then you got the flier.

By chance, did you pick up and inspect the patches for tears or holes?

[triggerhappy243]

Mine come out good enough to use again.

[54bore]

I'd start taking 5 shot groups as well. To me the first 2 shots look great, then you got the flier.

By chance, did you pick up and inspect the patches for tears or holes?

I only shot the 3 Round Balls and I couldn't find a patch, i looked but didn't find one. The place i was shooting today has some fairly tall green grass and other vegetation. About how far do you usually find the patches from the barrel? Im sure it varies, but a rough estimate?

[54bore]

The one thing that i REALLY noticed when i shot the Round Balls was lack of Recoil which was quite welcoming! After shooting the big 460 Grain bullets it was nice to get 'bumped' instead of Walloped

[54bore]

it's a stock New Englander so, that would be the T/C standard 1 in 48 twist.

bubba.50 is correct, this one is stock 1:48 Twist

[54bore]

Now I offered you a cool custom new englander with a fast twist 52 cal barrel and you bowed out. When I get that thing up and running I don't want no tears for the deadly piece that its sure to be. LOL. Its coming together, waiting on wads and sizer die.

I know, i know!! I actually thought about that barrel on the ride home!! LOL, I REALLY DID!

[triggerhappy243]

I find my patches between 15 and 20 yards from the muzzle. I also pre-saturate my patches.

[54bore]

I find my patches between 15 and 20 yards from the muzzle. I also pre-saturate my patches.

Mine are Oxyoke brand store bought and already lubed, I have 2 packages of 100 a package, 100 of the .015, and 100 of the .018 Ticking that is striped. I have enough to EASILY last me the rest of my life! Even if i live to 200!!

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

that wouldnt last me a week of heavy shooting pilgrim!

[54bore]

that wouldnt last me a week of heavy shooting pilgrim!

Now lead, and onion skin paper are a WHOLE different ball game! I should buy stock in both. These purty .530 roundballs will melt down and make REALLY nice BIG boolits, so they aren't a total waste!

[charlie b]

LOL this is good stuff!

I am having the same kind of trouble with PRB in the Lyman GPH. I thought I had it 'fixed', but, not yet. I also like the lack of recoil using the PRB vs 450 PP bullets. :)

Instead of PRB have you tried shorter bullets?

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

The GPH has a 1:32 twist. A bit fast for a Patched ball unless you cut the powder back around 60gr 2fg.

[725]

Try some .535 balls. Might just be surprised.

[54bore]

LOL this is good stuff!

I am having the same kind of trouble with PRB in the Lyman GPH. I thought I had it 'fixed', but, not yet. I also like the lack of recoil using the PRB vs 450 PP bullets. :)

Instead of PRB have you tried shorter bullets?

I have tried some paper patched Lyman Plains bullets, they are fairly short at .85, this rifle didn't shoot them any good either (my other 54s love them!!) The one thing i have not tried is a Greased Maxi ball WITHOUT an over powder wad. My dad told me he shot this rifle with Maxi balls and it shot good for him, Dad definitely knows what he is doing and his iron sight shooting has always been TOP SHELF. Back when he shot this gun it was before i had learned about over powder wads, so he would have been shooting the Lubed Maxi balls WITHOUT an over powder wad (bubba.50 swears by this method as well) I might get bored enough one day to try it? But regardless if it shoots good without an overpowder wad or not i stil have ZERO faith in this QLA muzzle, its gonna go away no matter what. I might as well wait til i get rid of the QLA, just a waste of powder, and lead. I'm not hurting for rifles, got all bases very well covered without this New Englander, so it's definitely at the bottom of my priority list

[bubba.50]

I been known to swear at a few things but, I don't "swear to" anything. just said I've never used wads in my guns or seen the need to. if my guns would shoot any better WITH a wad I'd be scared to shoot'em. [smilie=l:

[rfd]

lewis - stick with yer ppb's, you got that game wired and no need for patched balls.

[54bore]

lewis - stick with yer ppb's, you got that game wired and no need for patched balls.

rfd, I am sure i will shoot some Round ball thru my pistols, my expectations will be much lower, 25 yards will likely be my zone. After shooting ppb's as accurately as i have from 50 yards, all the way out to 500 yards, i am probably expecting WAY to much from a Stock 48 twist gun with Roundball.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

with a 1:48 twist, that rifle should do a whole lot better than 4" at 50 yards. Its a myth that the 1:48 twist is better for conicals than it is for round balls.

[54bore]

with a 1:48 twist, that rifle should do a whole lot better than 4" at 50 yards. Its a myth that the 1:48 twist is better for conicals than it is for round balls.

Im sure it would do better if i cared to mess with it, changing the patch ball combo, powder charge etc. Conical Bullets are my Game, Paper patched that is

[rfd]

every rifle is unique unto itself and will always take load testing to bring out its inherent best.

[54bore]

every rifle is unique unto itself and will always take load testing to bring out its inherent best.

Absolutely!!! None of my rifles shoot exactly the same stuff, from lead hardness, to sizing, powder charge, etc. Part of the fun is tinkering with them and finding out whats makes each one tick

[bubba.50]

I know roundballs have, can, and will take anything on the planet that can be taken with a muzzleloader and I have nothin' against them. that bein' said, I just don't like the fuss & bother of havin' to fumble with a greasy patch, center the ball over it & the muzzle, smack it with a short starter, ram it down on the powder and to hafta do this every single shot. I can stand up ever how many Maxi-balls or Lee R.E.A.L.s I figger to need in a flat pan, melt some lube, pour to top groove, punch'em out after the lube sets and then I'm good to go in the field or at the range. get one out, push it into the muzzle with my thumb, ram it home & shoot.


and same thing if I was into this paper-patchin'. prepare yer bullets before ya leave the house & be ready to go.

[54bore]

and same thing if I was into this paper-patchin'. prepare yer bullets before ya leave the house & be ready to go.

This is what makes the Paper Patch bullet my favorite, is ease of use in the field. Same would apply for Pre Greased Maxi's.

[idahoron]

How so? Mine shot them perfect and loaded perfect. Every tc hawken on the other hand, were super tight to reload and patched balls were another terrible problem to load. I remember I got a new one in, loaded one shot, fired, cleaned it and sold it a week later lol. Terrible rifle to reload.

Were you using your 50 50 mix of soft lead and lead shot? When your using hard lead balls you can't really blame the rifle.

Remember Jon I told you that the lead will age harden.

[crossxsticks]

I know roundballs have, can, and will take anything on the planet that can be taken with a muzzleloader and I have nothin' against them. that bein' said, I just don't like the fuss & bother of havin' to fumble with a greasy patch, center the ball over it & the muzzle, smack it with a short starter, ram it down on the powder and to hafta do this every single shot. I can stand up ever how many Maxi-balls or Lee R.E.A.L.s I figger to need in a flat pan, melt some lube, pour to top groove, punch'em out after the lube sets and then I'm good to go in the field or at the range. get one out, push it into the muzzle with my thumb, ram it home & shoot.


and same thing if I was into this paper-patchin'. prepare yer bullets before ya leave the house & be ready to go.

how about giving us your lube recipe

[Good Cheer]

Not shoot round ball? Got the .515 ball mold for the .52 bore paper patch guns.
What I don't have is time to dial in the .52 flinter Renegade with Lyman #512138.

[bubba.50]

how about giving us your lube recipe


beeswax & crisco or lard or butter or olive oil or canola oil or vegetable oil etc., etc., etc. it ain't rocket surgery, mix more or less of one over the other 'til ya get a mix that suits ya.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Were you using your 50 50 mix of soft lead and lead shot? When your using hard lead balls you can't really blame the rifle.

Remember Jon I told you that the lead will age harden.

Nope at that time, they would have been hornady round balls. Even powerbelts loaded super hard on a clean bore.

[idahoron]

Not that then. I haven't spent any time on the factory barrels on my rifles. Some didn't have them when I got them. Just remember with your mixed lead they will get harder. And that means harder to load a second shot in the field when you need it.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

no problem. I got some ingots made with 3lbs soft lead and a 1lb bar of chilled lead shot mixed in. That looks real nice and shiny like soft lead does and does not have that high pitch TING when you smack the ingots together.

[Standing Bear]

Mine are Oxyoke brand store bought and already lubed, I have 2 packages of 100 a package, 100 of the .015, and 100 of the .018 Ticking that is striped. I have enough to EASILY last me the rest of my life! Even if i live to 200!!



Been said on many forums that OLD prelubed patches deteriorate. Then they don't shoot well and can't be found.

[idahoron]

no problem. I got some ingots made with 3lbs soft lead and a 1lb bar of chilled lead shot mixed in. That looks real nice and shiny like soft lead does and does not have that high pitch TING when you smack the ingots together.

I am not going by guess and by golly. Your giving out the 50 50 mix as being soft and it is not. That will ruin someones hunt. It might not be yours but someone will try the same thing you are doing and loose an animal or worse wound an animal and lose it because they could not get a second shot.

[triggerhappy243]

the patches I have .............. have been lubed by me, 10 years ago and shoot to the point i ccan reuse them

[54bore]

Lead hardness is something i ONCE shrugged my shoulders at. When i bought my Cabin tree Hardness tester I remember thinking it was probably a waste of 120 bucks, that I probably wouldn't use it much? In the bullet casting dept it is without a doubt the most important/invaluable tool i own.

[Good Cheer]

Well, that is the problem with pushing any tech to it's limits as little tweaks start making real differences.
For the lubed lead, home grown with lanolin, beeswax, the oil de jour, eleven different herbs and spices and a means of batch traceability is the way to go if not patching.

[OverMax]

Over the years of shooting 2 of the T/c 54s I have. Patched ball only in one. Seems to have polished the bore or done something to reduce the strain of its reloading even when fouled its a piece of cake to reload. I also have a another 54 that's a dedicated Maxi shooter. That rifles ramming home will separate the men from the boys in its reloading on a 2 shot fouled barrel. A world of difference between the two rifles with the muscle it takes to reload em.

1-48s are known to shoot ball & solids reasonably well so I've read. Mini use on the other hand are just plain hopeless in a 1-48~~ I've found to be.

As far as the New Englander's mediocre accuracy. Old school Tip: Try the dimpling your ball technique ~~it may improve the rifles accuracy.

[Hanshi]

I hate to see any rifle not used and dismissed. You might go ahead and try a thicker patch and/or larger ball. You might even consider a new barrel or having the old one "freshed out" with deeper grooves. I've owned quite a few and never had a 1-48" twist rifle that wouldn't shoot ball very well.

[54bore]

I hate to see any rifle not used and dismissed. You might go ahead and try a thicker patch and/or larger ball. You might even consider a new barrel or having the old one "freshed out" with deeper grooves. I've owned quite a few and never had a 1-48" twist rifle that wouldn't shoot ball very well.

I poured some pure lead Maxi Balls today, i plan to try them in this New Englander, with and without an over powder wad. My dad said it shot good for him with Maxi's

[indian joe]

What it really is with me is the Round Ball itself, i could probably get this gun to shoot Round Ball better, by playing with patch ball combo and powder charge, BUT why even bother when i have several other rifles that will cut this thing in half, and i am more comfortable with them. The New Englander is NOT a great fit for me. And shooting Round ball just doesn't excite me. Maybe in one of my pistols, but no Round balls for my rifles. I am definitely a boolit shooter, paper patched and sized that is
I'm kind of amused that you see patched ball as a PITA and paper patched bullet as fun - but then I never did paper patched - it looked like a PITA to me :veryconfu
1 in 48 we used to call a "compromise twist" - whats a compromise - kinda that jack of all trades master of none deal eh. Will shoot ball ok, will shoot minie ok, will shoot boolit ok as long as its not too long - but a faster twist will tackhole boolits and a slower twist will tackhole round ball and both without the finickityness - yeah sell it to Bubba he make it work.

[charlie b]

I guess I should be happy with 4" PRB groups at 100yd in the fast twist GPH. Still trying to find a 'sweet spot' of powder load.

[54bore]

I guess I should be happy with 4" PRB groups at 100yd in the fast twist GPH. Still trying to find a 'sweet spot' of powder load.

Nothing wrong with 4" at 100 yards with Round Ball out of BOOLIT shootin barrel!