Sizing .457 down to .446?

[Gunfreak25]

I'm dying to load up some rounds for m71/84 but the Lyman mold is $75 bucks. I can get a sizer die for my Lub-A-Matic in .446 and size down the 450 grain .457 bullets I cast for my Martini Henry. Just curious if sizing from that size down to .446 will be really hard? My alloy is range scrap and fairly soft. Then of course the lube grooves, not sure if they will swage away going down so far. The rifle has a 1:22 twist so it should perform well with the 450 grainers, would be great if I could use them for both rifles!

[ascast]

Do NOT try that with a Lyman 45 or earlier model-you will break it. Try asking around for some to try. I have that mold and several others but I am kinda between houses and not shooting much, aside from the occasional remarks here. Post on bullets swap section. I may find some quick. I'll look in a bit.

[243winxb]

All a bad idea. To much sizing and will break sizer.

[Don McDowell]

If you got that to size down that far the bullet would be totally distorted and mostly useless. Spend the money for a proper bullet mould

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[HATCH]

It can be done but would require a lot more sizing dies. You would have to do it in smaller steps


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[Gunfreak25]

Thanks for the replies, I was assuming sizing down that far was a little too much for the little press. It is a LubeAMatic 2 from RCBS. I only currently use it with my 557/450 bullets.

It'll be a couple weeks before I order up the Lyman mold.

[country gent]

I would use a push thru die similar to the lees style. Have it made with 1/2* -1* lead in to the 446 dia and start from .005g over bullet dia ( .458 + .005 = .463 dia + .010. this gives a gradual push into the form and new size. A ram to mount to the press with a solid square end to push bullets thru. This will give the best chance of good bullets. Lightly lube bullets with swaging lube like Imperial sizing die wax and use a solid heavy o frame press.

[Bent Ramrod]

I've sized 0.314" diameter down to 0.308". I put the lube in the grooves at 0.314", then size to 0.312", 0.310", and finally to 0.308". I use a Lyman 45 for the .314" lubing, a heavy duty Lachmiller (predecessor to RCBS) for the .312"-.310" stages, and then a Pacific (Lee-type) sizing die on my reloading press for the .308" step.

With this technique, the boolits come out lubed, to the correct size, and are undistorted otherwise.

You would need seven dies for your sizing operation, and there's the cost of the proper mould and more. Also, even four stages is a lot of work, even with a little .30 caliber; a .45 would really be an effort.

I have done more reduction per stage with paper patch boolits, on my reloading press with a Lee-type die, but they don't have grease grooves to distort.

[fgd135]

Might try buying a box or two of different wt. .446 bullets from Buffalo Arms to get the rifle shooting, then decide on the right mold based on that.

[corbinace]

I do not have your Lyman mold, but I do have an Accurate mold from Tom with two different projectiles.

44-360M http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=44-360M-D.png

and 44-400B http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=44-360M-D.png

Maybe you would like to try some of these???

[Artful]

I know that I have taken .458 down to .452 - first sized to .458 and fill grooves with lube - then sized down to .454 then .452 - it lengthen and distorted but was still a usable boolit.

someone else's pretty picture of same process
http://www.fototime.com/68E891AD4F08210/standard.jpg

[Gewehr-Guy]

I've got a custom Lee bullet size die in .446 that they made for me a few years ago, that i use with Lee's 405gr. HB bullet . It works quite well, but you must have the grooves filled with lube and run them through base first . If you push them through slow the nose upsets and sticks in the die, but shove them fast they go right through. I think it works with one die only because of the hollow base and cast 30-1. My preference in moulds is the RCBS 370gr, shoots well for me.

[Gunfreak25]

Corbinace, that mold would be the ticket for this rifle. Are you offering to sell it I gather?

[corbinace]

Sorry to be unclear. Not sell the mold but rather send a couple handfuls of the results for you to pop into your cases.

Pm me if you would like to try some. I checked after I posted and I only have them in PCed form at the moment, I can cast up some more if you want them bare.

Then if it works for you, it will just make more aggravating the choice of selecting your own mold.

[Gunfreak25]

I'd sure appreciate it! I actually prefer paper patching but I get lazy (ie short on time) and sometimes just resort to grease groovers. Accuate makes a 370 grain mold of the .433 sizer or thereabouts that with my paper, would patch right up to .446. It's flat tip to boot for mag tube loading....

Anyway, I have 3 molds for my Martini and will eventually have a few for this rifle.

PM me your info

[Lead pot]

I'm dying to load up some rounds for m71/84 but the Lyman mold is $75 bucks. I can get a sizer die for my Lub-A-Matic in .446 and size down the 450 grain .457 bullets I cast for my Martini Henry. Just curious if sizing from that size down to .446 will be really hard? My alloy is range scrap and fairly soft. Then of course the lube grooves, not sure if they will swage away going down so far. The rifle has a 1:22 twist so it should perform well with the 450 grainers, would be great if I could use them for both rifles!

By the time you buy all the sizing dies to reduce that bullet down .011" you might just as well get the mould. Sizing a bullet down that much will completely change the way that bullet performs, not only that when you take to large of a reduction you will end up with a base that will be worthless. Get a new mould and be done with it.

[dh2]

I know some have sized boolits for the .375 H&H to the 9.3 MM which is going from .377 to .368 I know it is done with soft lead. but I see know reason why it is any different than what you are wanting to do.

[MT Chambers]

Quite often sizing that much will work the bands unevenly and result in an "off center" bullet, get a proper sized mold.

[shafer44]

you guys are most likely right about not sizing down that far, but the other night I had some .461 cast RD (NOE clone) boolits that I was going to run thru the sizer and lubricator to load for the next day. I sized and lubed about 30 boolits and then went to check one of my cases that I had already done everything except load powder and boolit. My bell was ok, so i would not shave lead, but when i put the boolit in, it went all the way in to the crimp groove. I scratched my head, grabbed another boolit and the same thing. I took several other cases and it did the same, so I ran some back thru the process to start over. Then....I grabbed my micrometer and checked a couple of boolits......452, I had left my 45 acp sizing die in my rcbs lubricator. That was one step from .461 to .452. It wasn't that hard to run them thru, but i did notice a difference from normal. Those went back to the furnace pile. I guess too, it depends on what alloy you are sizing. Mine are about 12 BHN, if they were 15-18 I know I would have known something was wrong when I was sizing.

[Larry Gibson]

Size and fill lube grooves at .457. Get a Lee .452 push through sizer and push them base first and fast (as already mentioned) through that. Then size in the .446 die. Sizing .005 - .006 at a time should not be too difficult a sizing......I have done it with Lee 459-405-HB bullets for use in M71s also. Cast of 20-1 the bullets drop .461+, are lubed in a .4615 H&I die, then a .457 H&I die, then pushed through a .452 Lee sizer and then sized in the .446 H&I die. I had no problems. The bullets will elongate so the trick was to develop a technique to keep the base square to the axis of the bullet.

Still, in the long run, if you're going to shoot the M71 Mauser much (they are usually well worth shooting IMHO) it's better and a lot easier to just get a mould. Also any of the 300 - 310 gr cast bullets for the 54 Colt/Casull work as well and require a lot less sizing effort. They work fine in the 43 Mauser sans the GC.

Larry Gibson

[arclight]

I made a paper patch mold for my 71/84 that drops .400 bullet at 340. It could go deeper for a heaver bullet. I still have the cutter. I could make another one if you supplied an Aluminum blank or a single-cavity 30 caliber mold.

This works nicely for paper-patching in this caliber.

Arclight

[omgb]

Here's my $.02 You can size a bullet that far but it will take two or three dies to do it and you will lose the grease grooves. You could buy the Lyman mold and it would work. However, if you spent $25 more, you could get one custom made by Accurate molds in a double cavity and a nose punch. You would have exactly what you need, it would work perfectly and you would have a no hassle solution to your problem. (now for the controversial stuff)

Accurate molds are superior to Lyman molds when you compare them dollar for dollar. I seriously doubt many hard-core casters would dispute what I just said. I'll say one more....Accurate molds are every bit the equal of LBT molds and for those of us that have and use them, you know what a Gold Standard they are. The only area where AM and LBT fall short in comparison to Lyman is in the depth and shape of the grooves. Lyman molds can have deeper, square faced grooves where AM and LBT have only radiused groove faces and are limited in depth. These limits are never a problem with smokeless powder but do sometimes create an issue with long-barreled (30+ inches) Black Powder guns under the right climatic conditions.

My opinions are not based on "arm-chair" speculation. I have 40 years experience with casting and more than 20 years experience with BPCR. I have corresponded at length with the late Dick Trenk, Veral at LBT, Ken Walters and even Mr. "Hell I Was There" himself back in 75 and 77 when I began my passion. I've followed Kenny Wasserman and others as they tried to lick the lube problem on hot dry days in BPCR shoots. So what I am saying is based on a lot of testing, experience and observation. I'd buy a custom Accurate mold from Tom and never look back.

[Gunfreak25]

Arclight, I believe many moons ago you did send me some bullets. Or we at least talked about it. I'd love to paper patch for this rifle and .430 would be about perfect. I'd have to find a slightly thicker paper than what I'm currently using for most of my paper patching but it would work.

Sending a PM