Really Dirty Brass - New Options

[308Jeff]

I picked up 5,000 pieces of really dirty 40 S&W Brass

Prior to having the rotary tumbler, I would have dumped it in a 5 gallon bucket full of hot water with some Dawn and Apple Cider Vinegar for a half hour, rinsed, dried, and put it in the vibratory tumbler for 8+ hours. Then resized. Pistol brass, I'd be done, but with rifle brass I would have cleaned the primer pockets.

But now that I have the F.A.R.T., clean primer pockets is a big feature. I HAVE to have squeaky clean primer pockets now. In everything.

What I'm thinking I'll do is dump some brass in the rotary media separator and give it a whirl (get the big/nasty/loose dirt out), run it through the rotary tumbler (without pins) for maybe 30 minutes, resize (after it's dry), and then put it back in the tumbler (with pins) for a final clean.

Seems like a lot of work. Am I overthinking/overdoing it?

[XDROB]

I like the idea of washing first. To get the heavier junk off. Then I would wet tumble with pins,car wash/ wax, Lemishine in batches.

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[Eddie17]

I rinse dirty, gritty brass in a 5 gal. bucket. Then introduce in the F.A.R.T. for final cleaning with a car wash/wax slope product, with Lemishine!

[308Jeff]

I rinse dirty, gritty brass in a 5 gal. bucket. Then introduce in the F.A.R.T. for final cleaning with a car wash/wax slope product, with Lemishine!

At what point to you decap (or decap/resize)?

[OS OK]

Jeff, you can use a universal decapper on the dirty brass after rinsing the goop out and off, doesn't size, doesn't touch the sides of the brass...just decaps.

[308Jeff]

Jeff, you can use a universal decapper on the dirty brass after rinsing the goop out and off, doesn't size, doesn't touch the sides of the brass...just decaps.

I've got one that I've used quite a bit on brass that wasn't too dirty. I'm thinking that if I'm going to have to clean it up some before I even get in near the press, I may as well deprime and resize at the same time.

Briefly considered buying a hand-held decapper like the Frankford Arsenal or a Harvey, but I'd rather spend money on other stuff.

[Reddirt62]

They are nice for such occasions. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170526/87842cef5dc5c95ba6de1b82fc4470da.jpg

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[pjames32]

There is a thread on citric acid/lemishine. It works! I use a Harvey decapper. You can decap them dirty.
If they are full of dirt you may want to wash them first. Good luck!

[OS OK]

I've got one that I've used quite a bit on brass that wasn't too dirty. I'm thinking that if I'm going to have to clean it up some before I even get in near the press, I may as well deprime and resize at the same time.

Briefly considered buying a hand-held decapper like the Frankford Arsenal or a Harvey, but I'd rather spend money on other stuff.

Oh...you mean like Powder Coating for those boolits your gonna cast and take some pictures of??? :bigsmyl2:

[308Jeff]

They are nice for such occasions. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170526/87842cef5dc5c95ba6de1b82fc4470da.jpg

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I like the hardware cloth mod to the Acrobin. Good idea!


Oh...you mean like Powder Coating for those boolits your gonna cast and take some pictures of??? :bigsmyl2:

Peer pressure. It's a heckuva thing....

[GhostHawk]

A the Frankford Arsenal decapper is IMO a great tool. Everything I shoot or brass I buy all gets decapped first. Then a half hour soak in hot water, couple drops of dawn soap and citric Acid.

That is clean enough for me. I have a vibratory tumbler and media I have not used any significant amount in 3 years.

I do like to use a brush to clean primer pockets as I dry. I do like to "roll" each piece of brass on a towel laid on my leg. Cracks seem to grab and tell me i have a piece of brass with a problem.

They don't look new, but for me they don't have to. They don't look old and grungy either. They look like me, getting up there, seen some use but still have a good attitude and ready to do what needs doing.

That suits me, YMMV.

I really owe a huge debt to the guys who posted in the citric acid sticky. My brass looks so much better. Thank you.

[David2011]

Citric acid really knocks the primer pocket crud loose if you decap first. A little tumbling in any media leaves them fairly clean but not as clean as SS pins. IMO, making primer pockets clean as new is a waste of time unless rifle bench rest shooting or going very long distances and totally unnecessary for handguns.

[JBinMN]

I just take the cases after they have been fired & give them a bath in hot water to cover, a couple drops of dish detergent, & a few shakes of Citrus powder got from the Grocery store that folks use for canning fruit.

I use one of those "whisk" thingamajobs/doo hickeys & stir them up like I am mixing up flapjacks & then let them sit for the water to cool.

I then take a colander/strainer ( like for spaghetti) & drain & rinse with some more hot water.

Shake & toss them in a towel made up like a hammock to help get rid of the rest of the water & let them air dry for a while til there is no water left.

If I wanted to, I could start the process after just that little bit & reload after that.. but usually I add more steps...
;)

----------------------

So, usually, I will decide to do a little more.. It may not be "necessary", but it is what "I" do & I am happy with it.
;)

First thing I do is "Inspect"the cases. Those that have dings I know will not do, I discard. Cases that are damaged to where I know they will not survive another firing, I discard also. So on & so forth..

Then it is time to De prime & size...

(NOTE: Half of my dies(old ones) are steel, thus need lube/Other half don't need lube)

The "survivors" of the culling get the de-prime & sizing ( lube or not lube whichever) then they go into the vibrating cleaner with walnut stuff (& since I have some of that "treated" corn **** , I throw some of that in there too so I can use it up & never get anymore again...) for a while. I do not need my brass "shiny & polished", I just want it "clean".

Next step is separate the media from the brass after the tumble cleaning & it is time for another decision...

After that process, I decide whether I need to just shake them again in a damp towel to get most of the media off, Blow clean with compressed air, or... then it is "Citrus wash" time again...

( This is where I would clean the primer pockets, if needed... before the citrus if I am going to use that method, or before Priming using the other methods. I prefer using another Citrus bath to get the pockets cleaned out good & make sure there is nolube left on before I go further. ;) )

If I decide that I should give them another bath, then I do that. If not, then they go on to either getting themselves into a container for later reloading, or I go into the reloading process of expanding/priming/etc..

A kind of Flowchart for "my" doins... :
----------------------

After shooting

Citrus Bath

Dry & INSPECT

Discard culled cases, De-Prime & Size

Vibrate/Tumble Clean Cases

Shake Tumble in Wet Towel/or,Blow with Air/or, Another Citrus Bath
(To remove media leftovers)

Start Reloading

-----------------------------------

No matter what ya decide to do, & whatever process ya use. Have fun & don't make it too much work..

Just be safe & enjoy the "doin" of it!
:)

G'Luck!

[Walter Laich]

Super cruddy brass gets washed (swirled for a bit, let set, swirled, etc) until all the big chunkies are gone. set out to dry in our wonderful Texas Sun.
run through the Lee deprining die which doesn't touch the sides.

then through SS chips* with Lemishine and Armor-All wash and wax (or more likely a store brand of this).

For some reason I have fallen in love with the very clean, almost new looking brass. I know it doesn't shoot any better but makes me feel good when I look a completed cartridge (I lead a very dull life)

*SS chips seem to cut the cleaning time in half vs. pins. https://www.facebook.com/southernshinetumblers/
you have to send him a message or call--not like a big time business with him and no, I'm not part of this, just a satisfied customer

[NoAngel]

I soak everything I get from the range in a bucket of warm water and citric acid. Give it a good hard shake every few hours. Then process. Then tumble. Then load.

[HeavyMetal]

Back in the 60's and early 70's brass cleaning equipment was non existant! closest you got to clean brass was using a Carbide size die for that "burnished" look, which still never looked like it was factory fresh ammo.

Fast forward to today and I've been through several vibrating brass cleaners and have the Frankford wet rotary machine right now and have become very happy with how it works.

As always everyone has there own limit on how much effort they put into reloading and I am the first person to keep my pie hole shut about what should be done by someone else, in the end it's what the specific reloader is comfortable with when he see's his finished product.

Now I can say, for myself, that having found a way to make my brass look like it came from the factory before I load it is the only way I'll roll from now on no matter the extra effort.

rifle brass is easier because I don't shoot as much of it as I do pistol brass. I have a couple Pro 1000 set up for specific calibers and each of these has a turret set up with a universal decapping die as a first step to processing brass. I'll run everything through the case feeder and de prime every round I've fired and then put them the SS pins and Dawn.

As I prime off the press, another step to allow inspection of the case before loading, this gives me completely clean brass to load.

The end result is reloaded ammo that sparkles and I like that!

HM

[country gent]

I decap with a homemade decapper that's similar to a set of pliers on everything then clean one time lube and size If a large batch I run it thru new corncobs for 1/2 hour -1 hour to remove lubes after sizing. I prefer the hand tool as it allows inspection while decapping before anything else is done.

[308Jeff]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. It's always educational and interesting to hear how other people do things.

Love this board. I learn something new every day that I'm here.

[XDROB]

I am one for sparkly brass.

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[308Jeff]

I am one for sparkly brass.

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I as well. Have always been.

It's just taken a lot of hours in a vibratory tumbler to get what I've been after.

I've completely worn out (4) Berry's made tumblers over the last 9 years. On that note, Berry's has replaced every single one of them, even though they were out of their warranty period.

[WJP]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I wet tumble extremely crappy brass. Other than that I just corn cob until the majority is off and I'm good. If I'm going to spend that much time cleaning I'll just buy new brass. I won't buy wet cleaned brass unless it's deprimed. Had way too many primers go off because of ringers.

[XDROB]

I started the thread 'Problems' .
I have always wanted shiny, like new brass. I could achieve that with dry tumbling with #5 corn. But I wanted the primer pockets cleaner. So I started S/S tumbling with drastic results. I reached out to the guys on these forums and had some great advise given, received and used to achieve really clean brass.
A lot of people say you don't have to get it that clean. They are right. It's a personal thing. I think in the long run my dies stay a lot cleaner. And the finished product looks good. I brought a few hollow point 45s to work to show a couple of guys there, they wanted to know where I bought them. With pride I said I reload. Plus as I have said in other threads that shiny brass is easier to find in the grass and dirt at the range.😎

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[308Jeff]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I wet tumble extremely crappy brass. Other than that I just corn cob until the majority is off and I'm good. If I'm going to spend that much time cleaning I'll just buy new brass. I won't buy wet cleaned brass unless it's deprimed. Had way too many primers go off because of ringers.

If by "ringers" you mean the outside ring of primers that stay in the pocket after decapping, I ran into one today. It was pretty easy to feel that it happened, and I tossed that piece of brass.

[WJP]

If by "ringers" you mean the outside ring of primers that stay in the pocket after decapping, I ran into one today. It was pretty easy to feel that it happened, and I tossed that piece of brass.

Not near as easy to feel on a 1050 if you have the swage rod pulled out. With that in you can feel it easy enough. Problem with the 1050 is it's hard to tell if it's a hard to size case or a ringer.

[JohnH]

I picked up 5,000 pieces of really dirty 40 S&W Brass

Prior to having the rotary tumbler, I would have dumped it in a 5 gallon bucket full of hot water with some Dawn and Apple Cider Vinegar for a half hour, rinsed, dried, and put it in the vibratory tumbler for 8+ hours. Then resized. Pistol brass, I'd be done, but with rifle brass I would have cleaned the primer pockets.

But now that I have the F.A.R.T., clean primer pockets is a big feature. I HAVE to have squeaky clean primer pockets now. In everything.

What I'm thinking I'll do is dump some brass in the rotary media separator and give it a whirl (get the big/nasty/loose dirt out), run it through the rotary tumbler (without pins) for maybe 30 minutes, resize (after it's dry), and then put it back in the tumbler (with pins) for a final clean.

Seems like a lot of work. Am I overthinking/overdoing it? Yeah. Run it through the tumbler to get the loose crud off, decap it and run it in the F.A.R.T. If the brass is especially tarnished, run it longer, 3 hours instead of 2. I find that 2 hours will do everything I need done. once fired gets a nice polish, tarnished polishes even though it is still bronze colored. Over time that will change but who cares, the brass is clean, in the way it matters, it runs smoother in the dies and feeds in the guns better too.

[retread]

I deprime with a Lyman decapping die then wet tumble with SS pins, dawn and lemishine. I do get shinier than new brass but the real reason I do it is to get clean primer pockets. I started reloading in 1960, cleaning primer pockets to me was the only "work" I felt I had when reloading. Now I don't have to do that chore and have better looking brass to boot.

[JohnH]

I deprime with a Lyman decapping die then wet tumble with SS pins, dawn and lemishine. I do get shinier than new brass but the real reason I do it is to get clean primer pockets. I started reloading in 1960, cleaning primer pockets to me was the only "work" I felt I had when reloading. Now I don't have to do that chore and have better looking brass to boot. It is surprising how much smoother priming is when the cases have been through a wet tumble. Try Mothers Carnauba Wash and Wax instead of Dawn, it's better yet.

[308Jeff]

Not near as easy to feel on a 1050 if you have the swage rod pulled out. With that in you can feel it easy enough. Problem with the 1050 is it's hard to tell if it's a hard to size case or a ringer.

Ran into another one today.

I'll bet I've resized/deprimed 20,000 pieces of 40 S&W prior to this weekend and never had it happen. Now twice, in two days. This time it took out the decapping stem in my die. Gonna have to call Hornady on Tuesday and order a new one.

FWIW, both pieces of brass that gave me ringers are Federal, of all things.

[JohnH]

Federal crimps the primers on their "Match" ammo

[RGrosz]

Several years age (about five years now) we got flooded at least the basement did for several months. Lost about everything in the reloading bench and what passed for the reloading room. Salvaged what I could and stored it away. Moved it out to the garage and started rebuilding my bench and things from there. Had buckets of brass get tarnished and need disassembled to start over. Well when I got time now I'm up to deprime with a Lee deprime die. Wet tumble with SS pins, vibratory tumble in walnut then ready to load. After get sized for the bottleneck rifle shells tumble again to remove the sizing lub and finish loading. for the straight wall pistol just keep going.
Rob

[308Jeff]

A couple of things I learned this weekend:

-I'm forced to believe there is an association between wet tumbling brass and ringers. I know that I have processed/decapped at least 50,000 pieces of brass and never had a ringer until this weekend. Two in two days, and I have 2,500 more pieces yet to resize/decap. I'll see if I run into more of them. On a related note, I pre-washed 2,000 pieces of military 308 brass a few years ago, and had a local guy do the processing (resize/decap, swage, trim) on his 1050 for me. He had several ringers in that batch, and swore he hadn't had a problem with that before. Thoughts?

-Lanolin based lubricants and wet tumbling don't mix. What a mess that was. Had 2,500 pieces of brass that were clean, but left with a dull greenish-brown appearance. A toss in the corncob media and then back in the wet tumbler fixed that. Lesson learned.

[ulav8r]

A couple of things I learned this weekend:

-I'm forced to believe there is an association between wet tumbling brass and ringers. I know that I have processed/decapped at least 50,000 pieces of brass and never had a ringer until this weekend. Two in two days, and I have 2,500 more pieces yet to resize/decap. I'll see if I run into more of them. On a related note, I pre-washed 2,000 pieces of military 308 brass a few years ago, and had a local guy do the processing (resize/decap, swage, trim) on his 1050 for me. He had several ringers in that batch, and swore he hadn't had a problem with that before. Thoughts?

-Lanolin based lubricants and wet tumbling don't mix. What a mess that was. Had 2,500 pieces of brass that were clean, but left with a dull greenish-brown appearance. A toss in the corncob media and then back in the wet tumbler fixed that. Lesson learned.


De-prime BEFORE wet washing.

[Bayou52]

Seems like a lot of work. Am I overthinking/overdoing it?

In short, yes. I'd say you're overdoing things. You've got a SS rotary wet tumbler, so just use it. If you have super muddy brass that needs a bath to get the dirt out, that's one thing. Otherwise, just throw the stuff in the wet tumbler and tumble it for however long it takes to get that level of shine you want.

If you want to cut you wet tumbling time by at least half, pre-soak the cases overnight in laundry detergent and hot water.

To tumble, I use auto wash and wax and Lemi-Shine.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/Bayou413/IMG_20160401_141930_zpsbhbdu1fp.jpg (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/Bayou413/media/IMG_20160401_141930_zpsbhbdu1fp.jpg.html)

All the Best!

[XDROB]

Oh man that's sparkly!!

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[308Jeff]

In short, yes. I'd say you're overdoing things. You've got a SS rotary wet tumbler, so just use it. If you have super muddy brass that needs a bath to get the dirt out, that's one thing. Otherwise, just throw the stuff in the wet tumbler and tumble it for however long it takes to get that level of shine you want.

If you want to cut you wet tumbling time by at least half, pre-soak the cases overnight in laundry detergent and hot water.

To tumble, I use auto wash and wax and Lemi-Shine.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/Bayou413/IMG_20160401_141930_zpsbhbdu1fp.jpg (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/Bayou413/media/IMG_20160401_141930_zpsbhbdu1fp.jpg.html)

All the Best!

Thank you.

I'm getting the same level of result, and I'm loving it.

Just wasn't sure how to get the brass clean enough to decap it before giving it the full wet tumbling treatment. I've got it figured out now.

Thank you to everyone who participated in this.

[retread]

In short, yes. I'd say you're overdoing things. You've got a SS rotary wet tumbler, so just use it. If you have super muddy brass that needs a bath to get the dirt out, that's one thing. Otherwise, just throw the stuff in the wet tumbler and tumble it for however long it takes to get that level of shine you want.

If you want to cut you wet tumbling time by at least half, pre-soak the cases overnight in laundry detergent and hot water.


To tumble, I use auto wash and wax and Lemi-Shine.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/Bayou413/IMG_20160401_141930_zpsbhbdu1fp.jpg (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/Bayou413/media/IMG_20160401_141930_zpsbhbdu1fp.jpg.html)

All the Best!

I use just a couple o drops of Dawn. How much wash and wax soap do you use?

[Bayou52]

Hi, Retread -

That brass in the photo was tumbled in 1 ounce Turtle Wax Zip wash and wax with 1/4 TSP Lemi-Shine. Using a Thumler's Model B tumbler.

Good luck!

[David2011]

Assuming here that "ringers" are crimped primer pockets. It's a new term to me. I've decapped about 4000 milsurp 5.56 and a few thousand .45 ACP with crimped pockets without issue. I've either swaged the pockets with a Dillon Super Swage or cut the crimps out with Hornady primer pocket reamers. I've broken a few decapping pins over the years but none that I can recall due to a crimped primer pocket. Usually the problem is a rock or other debris in the case.

Bayou 52,

You should be ashamed (NOT!) for posting those disgustingly beautiful buckets of like new polished brass. It just makes the rest of us feel inferior. They sure are purty!

[308Jeff]

Assuming here that "ringers" are crimped primer pockets. It's a new term to me. I've decapped about 4000 milsurp 5.56 and a few thousand .45 ACP with crimped pockets without issue. I've either swaged the pockets with a Dillon Super Swage or cut the crimps out with Hornady primer pocket reamers. I've broken a few decapping pins over the years but none that I can recall due to a crimped primer pocket. Usually the problem is a rock or other debris in the case.

Bayou 52,

You should be ashamed (NOT!) for posting those disgustingly beautiful buckets of like new polished brass. It just makes the rest of us feel inferior. They sure are purty!

The very first brass I got my hands on was 1,000 pieces of once fired LC 5.56. The next stuff was 2,000 pieces of LC 7.62. I don't know how many additional pieces of crimped primer brass I've processed since then, but it's gotta be over 10,000. Never had a ringer. Two of them last weekend, in 40 S&W of all things.

I'm convinced that the water/acid/detergent from wet tumbling with the primers in place causes a mild corrosion between the primer and the pocket and that's why ringers started happening. It's a logical conclusion once you add up the facts.

Lesson learned is always deprime before wet tumbling or soaking.

I bought a Black and Decker Work Station bench to set up a portable depriming station. Just going to take the dirty brass, decap, and drop them straight into the tumbler. Should be problem solved.

[308Jeff]

FWIW, this is how the brass turned out. My photography isn't as good as Bayou52's, but I'm happy with the results.196753

[Bayou52]

^^^^^^^^^ Great results, Jeff! Keep up that good work!

Bayou52

[robg]

Decap and size brass before cleaning unless its really bad ,don't see the point of cleaning brass then lubing it to size then cleaning again .if my brass is fairly clean I wipe it with white spirit/ mineral spirit after i trim it as its spinning in my drill .

[WJP]

The very first brass I got my hands on was 1,000 pieces of once fired LC 5.56. The next stuff was 2,000 pieces of LC 7.62. I don't know how many additional pieces of crimped primer brass I've processed since then, but it's gotta be over 10,000. Never had a ringer. Two of them last weekend, in 40 S&W of all things.

I'm convinced that the water/acid/detergent from wet tumbling with the primers in place causes a mild corrosion between the primer and the pocket and that's why ringers started happening. It's a logical conclusion once you add up the facts.

Lesson learned is always deprime before wet tumbling or soaking.

I bought a Black and Decker Work Station bench to set up a portable depriming station. Just going to take the dirty brass, decap, and drop them straight into the tumbler. Should be problem solved.

This is it. Never had an issue until I got brass from everglades that was wet cleaned with primers. I've loaded more than I could honestly say but never had an issue with any other brass. It wasn't crimped brass either, all 44, 44 mag, 45 colt. Probably a low seller for him so they had time to sit and corrode. No issues with everglades but I'll never buy wet cleaned brass again with primers still in.

[ulav8r]

If the brass is too dirty to decap as is, rinse in soapy water and decap as you pull it out of the water. Do not let it dry before decapping.

[kmrra]

I always prep the brass before I tumble , that way you have nice and clean ammo when you are done , in other words cleaning the brass is the last thing I do