Is the 44mag more intrinsically accurate than the 45LC?

[DanWalker]

What is your opinion? I'm a 45 guy at heart and always will be. Just wondering if 44 mag is a more accurate caliber than 45LC or if this is just another old wives tale.

[Grmps]

The most appropriate answer to this question is -- It depends on a myriad of variables

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I can't imagine either design having enough of a flaw over the other, to make a measurable difference, if all things are equal. Although, there is the obvious larger bullet drop(trajectory) of the 45 colt, due to original specs. Maybe you are asking something I am not understanding?

[DanWalker]

I am asking a simple question. All things being equal, does the 44 cartridge have any advantage in pure mechanical accuracy over a 45LC? I don't think it does, but was wanting others opinions.

[CHeatermk3]

But since all things can't be being equal, the answer is yes and no.

Yes if you're talking factory loadings and BC.

At 7 yds, no
At 25 yds, maybe.
At 100 yds, probably.

[Bohica793]

Uhhhhhh.........no

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

ok, I think I now understand better.
My opinion is that 44 mag is much more accurate.

[Petrol & Powder]

OK, this is just opinion but it’s based on actual experience. I always found it easier to dial in 44 mag (and 44 Special) than 45 Colt. That’s NOT saying that the 45 Colt is an inaccurate cartridge but it is saying that I found the 44 to be easier to get good results from. This was done before my casting days so the reloads were assembled with commercial cast bullets and jacketed bullets.
I know people have achieved excellent results with the 45 Colt but for me the 44 Mag and 44 Special are the winners. This is by no means Holy Writ.

[Nueces]

I think that the rep earned by the 45 Colt for poor accuracy and difficulty in loading is due to the historical variation in internal diameters: loose black powder chambers, yawning throats, varying bore and groove diameters. For example, in the 70s, dies intended for original 0.456" bullets would not size a case enough to hold 0.452" bullets. The 45 Colt was birthed in the 1870s, the 44 Magnum in the 1950s.

A modern 45 Colt, with reasonably tight chamber, 0.452" throats and bore to match, as seen on late production Rugers, is every bit as accurate as any 44 Magnum. Or, so I say.

[BK7saum]

I think that the rep earned by the 45 Colt for poor accuracy and difficulty in loading is due to the historical variation in internal diameters: loose black powder chambers, yawning throats, varying bore and groove diameters. For example, in the 70s, dies intended for original 0.456" bullets would not size a case enough to hold 0.452" bullets. The 45 Colt was birthed in the 1870s, the 44 Magnum in the 1950s.

A modern 45 Colt, with reasonably tight chamber, 0.452" throats and bore to match, as seen on late production Rugers, is every bit as accurate as any 44 Magnum. Or, so I say.

+1

If you are talking current production revolvers of the same manufacture held to equally tight tolerances, then I'd say that accuracy potential is the same between the .44 and .45

[mozeppa]

yup....the 44 mag wins hands down!....because it has laser guided hammers. hi-tech medallions in the grips!

and let us not forget the hyper tuned trigger daphus!

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

M! ;) .

[Tom W.]

I have better accuracy with the .44. My Blackhawk convertible was inaccurate from mild to wild with the .45 Colt loads, but would shoot the acp loads wonderfully. All of the Ruger super Blackhawks and the SRH are or were surprisingly accurate. None of my .44s or .45s ever fired a factory load, but I really don't think that is an issue with the accuracy, especially considering the length of time I owned them, and the different loads that I tried.
Let​ me edit to say that I did find a boolit that finally shot well in the .45 Colt, the RCBS 45 -270- SAA.

[DanWalker]

I will simplify further. Suppose you had MGM make you a pair custom barrels for a contender, one in each caliber. Would one be more inherently accurate than the other? Assume you sent them a dummy round for each chambering, and they did all the accurate machining they are known for.

[35remington]

It's a gun thing, not a cartridge thing.

[shooting on a shoestring]

DW in your last rendition, no.
They're both straight walled cartridges of close to the same case volume and roughly the same boolit weight using the same primers and powders and can be loaded to close (loosely used) to the same pressures. No mysteries. Expect the same results.

Nueces said it well. It's not the cartridges, it's the guns and the component manufacturers.

[DougGuy]

I will simplify further. Suppose you had MGM make you a pair custom barrels for a contender, one in each caliber. Would one be more inherently accurate than the other? Assume you sent them a dummy round for each chambering, and they did all the accurate machining they are known for.

When you put the same rate of twist in each barrel, you are doctoring each round with consistency in crimp, weighing each charge, seating force (case neck tension) same primer, I think the only advantage the 44 has is that it may have a bit better BC but using the same boolit styles, both using heavy for caliber RF boolits with the same alloy and same lube, I am under the impression that each will be within 10% of the other one at 50yds.

Shooting light j words, in the 180 to 200 grain range, I think the 44 may just edge out the 45 strictly on BC of the bullet. I think the 44 has a slight advantage over the 45 in this measurement, and that's about it, all else being as equal as you could make it.

[DanWalker]

That's pretty much what I figured, but lacking any real experience with the 44's, I thought I would ask.

[35remington]

Simply increase 45 bullet weight until BCs are equal. Problem solved.

[Bazoo]

I dont know that it really adds to the discussion.. but frank barnes said that he had seen several 100 yard, 1" groups from 44 magnum chambered rifles. I've never heard of that kind of accuracy from a 45 colt rifle.

[white eagle]

Yep..

[Thumbcocker]

My experience with 2 .45 colt Rugers ruined me on that cartridge. I spent time, money, and aggravation on molds, powders, lubes and would have probably tried unicorn fur filler if it had been available. Straight run Ruger .44 magnums with smoothed up actions and loads that have stood me in good stead and I have hit detergent containers and cat litter bottles on the 200 yard berm. On the other hand my ROA hit a clay bird on the 100 yard berm on the 10th shot this past weekend. I am really thinking about a conversion cylinder for the ROA since I have the .45 colt stuff laying around.

My totally unscientific opinion is that the .45 colt has too much case capacity for smokeless powder but I am not qualified to back that up. In a properly dimensioned revolver where the gun is like a funnel logic suggests that both should shoot equally well but the .45's I had were not logical.

[DanWalker]

Well, I am planning on ordering a 45LC contender barrel from MGM next month, and will be sending him a dummy round to cut the chamber for. Should be an interesting exercise to see how accurate this cartridge can be. I know I shot some 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards with my 454 casull (10" barrel, leupold scope) using my 45LC handloads. I have watched these same handloads miss the target at the same distance when fired from my win 94 trapper. Apples and oranges, I know, but definitely reinforces the importance of tailoring each load to the gun.

[rintinglen]

IME, you are are likely to find an accurate 44 revolver than a 45. Not to say that no one ever has had an accurate 45 Colt, just that your odds are better in getting a good 44 than a 45.

[CHeatermk3]

Helps to have a skookum tube too.

[Drm50]

To answer this I'm going to use 2 guns a M29-2 & M25-5 and for added comparison a M24, 44sp.
Using what would be standard bullets, 240swc in 44mag, 250 RnFp in 45Colt and also loading
same 240swc in 44sp. Also loading these cartridges to standard factory specs. For accuracy the
45Colt and 44sp out shoot the 44mg. The 44mag loaded to 44sp specs will be more accurate
than full mag loads. Using jacketed bullets the 44mag at long range out shoots 45Colt or 44sp
Backing down the 45Colt & 44 sp and using WCs with target loads they are hard to beat. You
will encounter the same thing 38sp vs 357mag. I am not saying the magnums shot bad, just
that it seems lower velocities seem more accurate. I think there is a trade off for Velocity/ Accuracy involved. This is not ment to deal with a certain gun or skill of shooter. I'm not bad
mouthing 44mgs. I've got 9 of them. Just the. Facts.

[Petrol & Powder]

The observations noted by Thumbcocker in post #22 are similar to my experience. My gut feeling is that the case capacity of a 45 Colt is less than ideal for smokeless powder.
When I left the big bore game about 20-25 years ago I had given up on the 45 Colt. When I decided to get back in the game I didn't even consider the 45 Colt.

[white eagle]

I like thumbcocker have been through hundreds of buckola's trying to get a 45 colt ruger revo to shoot good enough to keep
I have had 44's that are easy to shoot and accurately to boot
if you are getting a single shot though you are getting a whole different animal and I would bet that will shoot very well indeed

[Lloyd Smale]

ive owned more then 20 of each through the years. Now I wont say I haven't had 45 colts that shoot well but hands down if I looked at my loading records the 44s were more accurate and took less load development to shoot well. Doubly so if your talking bullets in the 250 grain range. Gap closes up a bit when your shooting heavy loads using 300 grain and heavier bullets. 35 rem hit on one of the reasons. 250 grain 45 colts bullets don't have the same bc's 250 grain 44s have. But that said ive even stuggled with 275-280 grain 45s if I compare them to 250 grain 44s. Add to that that the 45s up till real recently were built with chamber specs all over the place and twist rates that just didn't make sense. I can about guarantee your that if you bought say 10 44 mag rugers an 10 45 colt rugers and shot them all youd come away knowing which is the better round. I think most of the attention that the 45 colt gets is from guys that think owning one makes them some kind of gun expert. When I first got into handguns I drank the koolaid myself. I probably bought 2 45 colts to every 44 mag I bought. Today when I pick up a gun at the gunshop and its marked 45 colt its layed right back down. I could care less about looking cool. I want a gun that can shoot. Not a big 41 mag fan either but they too are consistently more accurate then 45 colts.

[Forrest r]

case capacity ='s accuracy
higher pressures ='s case capacity
Bullet seating depth ='s case capacity

The window for accuracy is extremely limited with the 45lc vs the 44mag.

The larger the case volume the more it's affected by powders being position sensitive. More sensitive to crimp, primer ignition, bullet seating depths/pressures in general.

Accuracy means different things to different people. I guess if you're shooting dirt clods @ 10 paces it really doesn't matter. If you work up loads for nra targets at least you have something consistent to measure accuracy wise. I've owned several revolvers chambered in 45lc over the decades along with 44spl/mags. With my limited reloading skills I've found it easier to find accurate reload with the 44mag than any of the 45lc's.

I've showed this picture before. These are nothing more than targets from testing loads in a beater 629. They are not cherry/hand picked targets by any means. I was looking for plinking loads that would do minute of golf ball @ 25yds. Minute of gold ball ='s 1 1/2" or x-ring on a nra target. I used 5 different bullets & 7 different powders. The end result was 13 loads that would hold the x-ring @ 25yds.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/629accuracytargets_zps87d7149e.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/629accuracytargets_zps87d7149e.jpg.html)

There's nothing special about that 629. I bought it used at a gunshow, wasn't looking for a 629 it was just being sold cheap so I bought it. It spent 6 or 7 years in the toolbox in the back of my truck hence "truck gun". Started actually shooting it a couple of years ago and decided to work up some plinking loads for it.

I have yet to see a 45lc have that kind of accuracy over such a narrow range of bullet/powder combo's from the rugers and s&w's I've owned in 45lc.

On a side note:
I had a heck of a time finding accurate loads with the 9mm. The extremely small case capacity and high pressures made small changes in loads have huge swings on the loads performance. Why bring up the 9mm in a 45lc thread? The 45lc reminds me of the 9mm. Both are solid performers, just had to work harder at finding accurate loads.

just another opinion.

[44MAG#1]

DAN WALKER is talking about a CUSTOM 45 Colt CONTENDER barrel by MGM with a chamber cut to a SAMPLE cartridge he is SENDING to MGM for them to cut the chamber too.
Now in my humble idea that has little to do with REVOLVERS.

[Lloyd Smale]

not just revolvers. Ive had a number of lever guns and contenders in both and the 44s did better in them too.
DAN WALKER is talking about a CUSTOM 45 Colt CONTENDER barrel by MGM with a chamber cut to a SAMPLE cartridge he is SENDING to MGM for them to cut the chamber too.
Now in my humble idea that has little to do with REVOLVERS.

[Petrol & Powder]

DAN WALKER is talking about a CUSTOM 45 Colt CONTENDER barrel by MGM with a chamber cut to a SAMPLE cartridge he is SENDING to MGM for them to cut the chamber too.
Now in my humble idea that has little to do with REVOLVERS.

True but the OP made no mention of the type of gun in his first post.
".........What is your opinion? I'm a 45 guy at heart and always will be. Just wondering if 44 mag is a more accurate caliber than 45LC or if this is just another old wives tale. ............."

That information came later and has been acknowledged by the replies that followed.

[44MAG#1]

"not just revolvers. Ive had a number of lever guns and contenders in both and the 44s did better in them too."

Were your rifles and Contenders custom with custom cut chambers? If they were I understand. The reason I made my post everyone was locked in on revolvers as you can plainly see that has their own set of problems.

[Lloyd Smale]

original poster said nothing about custom built contenders or even any certain kind of firearm. Truth be told ive only owned 5. A 4570 and 3030 rifle and a 730, 44mag and 45/410. Contenders never did excite me like they do some.

[44MAG#1]

"original poster said nothing about custom built contenders or even any certain kind of firearm."

He touched on it in post 14 and confirmed it in post 23.

[Petrol & Powder]

"original poster said nothing about custom built contenders or even any certain kind of firearm."

He touched on it in post 14 and confirmed it in post 23.

YES, and after the OP confirmed it the other contributors to the thread acknowledged it, such as white eagle in post #28:
".....if you are getting a single shot though you are getting a whole different animal and I would bet that will shoot very well indeed ...."

Nothing unusual about the way the way the thread progressed.

[44MAG#1]

"Nothing unusual about the way the way the thread progressed."

Yes you are correct, but how long would the revolver droning have kept on because people weren't reading all Dan Walkers posts.

[C. Latch]

There's nothing inherently better about one cartridge over the other.

Anecdotes don't add up to data.

[rosewood]

I have always heard that the .308 was "inherently" accurate. I have a Savage 110 in 7mag, a 12 in 22-250, both heavy barrel. I found an accurate load in short order in both of those guns. I also have a model 12 .308 heavy barrel. I have been hunting for a consistent accurate load in that gun for 3 years now. Maybe there is something wrong with the gun, but so far, it has not lived up to the rep of "inherently" accurate to me.

I have an 12" encore in 44mag and it shoots quite well at 100 yards. I have not chased an accurate load with my 45 colt in the contender yet, so no data to compare. I have heard the .460 S&W magnum in the S&W revolver is a very accurate shooting combo. It has a very large case volume, much greater than the 45 colt, so not sure the case volume is an argument for it not being as accurate as a 44.

Rosewood

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Yes. I have many .45 Colt's and many .44 magnums and .44 Specials. Years of effort tying hard to get my .45 Colt's to shoot as well as my .44 Magnums and .44 Specials have me agreeing with Elmer Keith: I quit the .45 Colt's! Just about any haphazard .44 load I throw together beats my carefully constructed .45 Colt's loads.

[Sur-shot]

What I know for a fact is that the first perfect score for a revolver in a sanctioned silhouette match, a 40x40, was shot with a 44 not a 45. Now it could be that it just happened that way, but I doubt it. Most things of accuracy at 50-200 meters, do not just happen in silhouette shooting, especially with a revolver.

If you have never shot a 44 you may find it a hard gun to master. Shoots great one day and you can not hit beans with it the next. It is that way when trying to learn to shoot a 44 revolver. The hot loaded 45 is no different.
Ed

[44MAG#1]

Again it will be a custom MGM contender barrel with a chamber cut to a sample cartridge Dan Walker is sending them
Read post #23.

[Char-Gar]

It is far easier to find accurate loads all up and down the power scale with the average 44 Magnum than the average 45 Colt. The difference is not in any inherent accuracy of the cartridge but the difference in the average revolver of both calibers. Mind you, I said AVERAGE revolver!

[Thumbcocker]

For accuracy the 45Colt and 44sp out shoot the 44mg. The 44mag loaded to 44sp specs will be more accurate than full mag loads.

I have found the .44 magnum to b very accurate over a wide rage of velocity ranges. Some of my best groups have been with an NOE Ranch Dog 265 rnfp over 22.0 of H110. Not the easiest on the shooter but accurate. At he other end of the scale my favorite Bisley .44 mag. shoots really well with the H110 od and Keiths over 6.5 of red dot.

[Jeff Michel]

I shoot both calibers quite a bit, rifle, revolver and contender. I have found no appreciable difference.

[Bigslug]

I don't chase the bughole group dragon with handguns to any serious degree, so it's more than likely both rounds are better than me. . .

But as a topic of discussion, if the .44 IS the more accurate of the two, do y'all think it might have something to do with the proportionally stouter rim? Leverguns of the blackpowder era were not chambered in .45 Colt because of the relatively puny rim coupled with balloon head cases. Do you think the .44 might be a little more solidly supported in it's chambers?

Or is it entirely a load-density issue? The .454 Casull - essentially the same round - never had much complaining directed against it's ability to group, but then, those guns can take compressed loads of Slow Burn.

[therealhitman]

I dont know that it really adds to the discussion.. but frank barnes said that he had seen several 100 yard, 1" groups from 44 magnum chambered rifles. I've never heard of that kind of accuracy from a 45 colt rifle.

What, offhand? Ten shot groups?

If I shot five 5 shot groups from a bench out of a cold barrel on my .45 Colt 1895CB I would nearly guarantee at least one such single MOA group. Or at least real close. Of course if I couldn't do it in five groups I'd mount a scope on it and try again.

[Bazoo]

What, offhand? Ten shot groups?

If I shot five 5 shot groups from a bench out of a cold barrel on my .45 Colt 1895CB I would nearly guarantee at least one such single MOA group. Or at least real close. Of course if I couldn't do it in five groups I'd mount a scope on it and try again.

I dont recall exactly, but the reference was from the 5th edition of cartridges of the world. I dont remember if it was 44 magnum rifle or pistol notes. I dont have my book handy, but I think, it was single shot rifle from a bench, and 5 shot groups. If I dont forget, i'll check my book when I get home and report back the details.

[M-Tecs]

The 45 Colt was around long before any type of standards. The 45 Colt predates SAAMI by 50 years. Most of the Colt issues are do to this. In equal toleranced chambers/guns they are indistinguishable.

[Lloyd Smale]

but you have to factor in the guns there chambered in and the projectiles they shoot. a 762x39 might be very accurate in a heavy barreled bolt gun using match bullets but the average guy shooting it is shooting an AK and wolf ammo. Same thing with a 3030. Hell of an accurate round in a bolt gun but the typical 94 not so much. Same goes for the 45. In a perfect world it might be as accurate as the 44mag but when you look across the board at the rifles and handguns chambered for them tolerances are much me uniform in 44 mag guns and so are twist rates. Also if your the typical guy that wants to shoot bullets under 260grain you have to fight the poorer bc of the 45 bullets and again the fact that you 45 might not like the standard 452 sized bullet. So I say yes the 44 in inherently more accurate just because if nothing else a 255 grain 44 bullet has a better bc then the same in a 45. But its a small difference. What is a fact is that if you buy say 5 blackhawks in 44 and 5 in 45 id about bet my house that if you averaged the accuracy between them even with your best handloads in both the 44 will win the accuracy challenge and if your using factory ammo or are the type that just has maybe two molds for each or use factory bullets the 44 is going to win by a BIG margin.
There's nothing inherently better about one cartridge over the other.

Anecdotes don't add up to data.

[bigted]

Just to weigh in with the old Colt round ... Try a case full and compressed with 40 grains 3Fg real black powder. Until i loaded and shot some of these in my 2nd gen Colt cavalry model did i see the real potential of the old round.

In the custom barrel id bet that the 44 would be the best choice ... Not the sexiest but im bettin the best accuracy.

[Gee_Wizz01]

OK, this is just opinion but it’s based on actual experience. I always found it easier to dial in 44 mag (and 44 Special) than 45 Colt. That’s NOT saying that the 45 Colt is an inaccurate cartridge but it is saying that I found the 44 to be easier to get good results from. This was done before my casting days so the reloads were assembled with commercial cast bullets and jacketed bullets.
I know people have achieved excellent results with the 45 Colt but for me the 44 Mag and 44 Special are the winners. This is by no means Holy Writ.



When you put the same rate of twist in each barrel, you are doctoring each round with consistency in crimp, weighing each charge, seating force (case neck tension) same primer, I think the only advantage the 44 has is that it may have a bit better BC but using the same boolit styles, both using heavy for caliber RF boolits with the same alloy and same lube, I am under the impression that each will be within 10% of the other one at 50yds.

Shooting light j words, in the 180 to 200 grain range, I think the 44 may just edge out the 45 strictly on BC of the bullet. I think the 44 has a slight advantage over the 45 in this measurement, and that's about it, all else being as equal as you could make it.


Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

[C. Latch]

but you have to factor in the guns.....I say yes the 44 in inherently more accurate

Inherent accuracy has nothing to do with the gun the cartridge is chambered in. That's what 'inherent' means. But you're absolutely right that the typical .44 will have better dimensional consistency than the typical .45. No argument there at all and if a new handgun shooter asked me what caliber to buy to hunt with, I'd steer them to the .44 (or .41) over the .45 any day of the week.

[gray wolf]

Ruger Super red hawk 44 mag with different loads, rested.
I believe I could get the same accuracy from the 45 colt.
I would expect the pistols be made to proper specs.

I think a fly in the test would be only shooting factory loads.
Factory only and I think the 45 would fall off and distance would be the reason.

J M H O

[Bazoo]

A better comparison I think, would be between the 44 russian, and the 45 colt. The russian, of course was the granddaddy of the 44 magnum. Wonder what the accuracy difference between 2 colt model P's would be, one chambered in 45 colt and one chambered in 44 russian.

[Bazoo]

Thats what im saying minuteshaver.

The 44 russian was offered in the colt model p, and that would be as close as a test you could get cause you cant get a smith in 45 colt. You'd have to get 2 of the same model gun from the same year range, but with 2 different chamberings. Maybe set it up with handloads made close to original specs as possible, and assembled by the same person, so the attention to detail would be the same. Then fired from each of the respective weapons from sand bags. I'd bet the 44 would beat the 45 by a good margin. Be pretty neat.

[M-Tecs]

I have both the 44 Mag and 45 Colt in scoped super 14's. Going the other direction in larger 460 S&W case is the most accurate of my S&W revolvers. My 44 Mag rifle is a Browning 92. The Browning 92 44 Mag does not come close to the accuracy of my two Marlin 45 Colts. No surprise since most of my Marlins best the 92's in accuracy.

[dubber123]

When writer Ross Seyfried set out to shoot a 1" group at 100 yards, he chose the 45 Colt. He succeeded too, but not with poofball loads, his were heavy cast with max charges of H-110/296. That said, I generally have an easier time getting my 44's to shoot. The awful specs on some 45 Colt guns is a major contributor to their lackluster accuracy in my opinion.

[shorty500]

The biggest issue with the Colt is that chamber, throats and groove diameters in the guns have flucuated wildly as well as bullet diameter shrinking since WWII. Some of the most accurate revolvers I own are chambered in .45 Colt, but YES it can be a difficult round to get accuracy from if ammo doesn't match the gun in question. Have extensively tested both my old Silhouette FA .44 and the Colt cylinders in my FA .454s I feel there is little difference IF THE AMMO MATCHES THE GUN AND THE GUN IS PROPERLY DIMENSIONED TO START. I personnally don't see any issues with the twist rate at least if it falls between the 1-16 to 1-24 rates that are found in most .45s

[bigted]

Thats what im saying minuteshaver.

The 44 russian was offered in the colt model p, and that would be as close as a test you could get cause you cant get a smith in 45 colt. You'd have to get 2 of the same model gun from the same year range, but with 2 different chamberings. Maybe set it up with handloads made close to original specs as possible, and assembled by the same person, so the attention to detail would be the same. Then fired from each of the respective weapons from sand bags. I'd bet the 44 would beat the 45 by a good margin. Be pretty neat.

Well now i disagree. I have just closed a deal on a Smith model 25-5 in the venerable old Colt round ... Yep i really do like the 45 Colt.

So a feller could buy a 29 and a 25-5 of the same year ... Or ... Two super blackhawks in both chambers ... Or ... Two redhawks chambered in the two culprits for doing the dual estimate to determine which is more accurate or easy to load for or to handle when shooting ... I would take the old Colt round any time over the 44 and i have owned and shot both for years. Finally gotten rid of all the 44's and now have only 45 Colts in the house. Not casting stones at the 44's ... Just as with the 357's ... Just not my cup o tea.

[Lloyd Smale]

I do have 45s and have killed quite a few game animals with them but still prefer a good 44 mag. Whats not to like about the 44 mag. It handles and shoots accurately with 225-250 grain cast bullets at velocitys as low as 800 fps (something the 45 colt stuggles with) It also shoots 340s at 1200 fps in a good strong gun. I took a 5.5 bisley to the linebaugh seminar about 10 years ago with that ballistic cast 340 load and out of about 50 guns participating in the penetration testing was beat only by ONE 475 linebaugh load in penetration. there was lots of 45 colts, 475s and 500s both standard and maximums. there and also a few big rifles like my own 458 mag along with a couple other 458s. A 458 lott, a 416 rem and a 375h&h. The reason it probably won was the excellent bc of that 340. It made a lot of people there shake there heads and a few made shamed me into shooting it again thinking it was a fluke. So with a proper load the 44 is everything the 45 is. Brass, bullets, molds are easier to find and a better selection can be found. Not that 45 colt is hard to find but the 44 is just easier. Full power ammo is in about any hardware store in the country if your the type that might need it. Non issue for me because I just don't buy factory ammo.

I think the biggest draw to the 45 for people is nostalsia. It has history. That and every gun writer in the country 20 years ago got on the 45 is the "cool" round for gun nuts kick because it sold articles. They wanted to make you think if you didn't drink the koolaid your just weren't a proper gun nut. A few people saw through this and stuck with the 44mag because all bs aside its a more versatile round and you can talk inherent accuracy or intrinsic accuracy but in REAL WORLD accuracy the 44 mag is just easier to get to shoot accurately and the guns produced that you can buy in the gun shop have a much better chance of shooting that 1 inch group we all look for then the same guns in 45. Like I said I still use my 45 colts but mostly for what they accel at. That's shoot 300 grain and heavier cast bullets at speeds greater then 1100 fps. They do that well. So well in fact that ive gotten rid of my 454s. That said like I showed earlier the 44 will do the same thing but who wants to own only one caliber. I own handguns in about every caliber handguns are chambered in. Sure don't think I'm a bit cooler at the range the days I have a 45 colt there. If I had to see every handgun in the safe and could have only one for small game, big game, self defense and just plinking it would be a 44 mag. Cool is as cool does!

[fivegunner]

After reading all the post, I hope that the price of Rugers in .45 COLT goes' down , So I can have a few more of them !. I own and shoot the .45 colt and the 44 mag . like them both , But you guys are right the .45 colt guns take a little more work to make them shoot as well as most .44mags right out of the box . My 2 cents[smilie=2::lovebooli:2::Fire::Fire::Fire::Fire:

[Lloyd Smale]

yup I'm with you. I sure wouldn't pass on a 45 colt at a good price. A real gun nut couldn't live without a couple of both!
After reading all the post, I hope that the price of Rugers in .45 COLT goes' down , So I can have a few more of them !. I own and shoot the .45 colt and the 44 mag . like them both , But you guys are right the .45 colt guns take a little more work to make them shoot as well as most .44mags right out of the box . My 2 cents[smilie=2::lovebooli:2::Fire::Fire::Fire::Fire:

[JSH]

A very interesting thread for sure gents. It looks as if most all angles have been touched on.
The OP going with the direction of a SSP, is sure a fair bit off from a wheel gun. Sending them a dummy to measure is fine. I hope it was of a specific brass and length. Along with the thoughts of the various sizers, I would come up with a piece of fired brass and see what your dies size it back down too. Or even better if the folks at MGM will take a look at your dies and go from there.

I was one of the slow ones getting on the 45 colt wagon. I know have a couple, both Rugers and years apart. Both have their likes and dislikes, and I doubt there will ever be a universal load that the both shoot acceptable to my wants.

The question on accuracy, which is more accurate. First off what do YOU consider accurate? I won't knock anyone's findings, but I just don't spend much time at 25 yards. 25 yards gives me a fair idea of what it is going to do. If it is not a 2-21/2" group at the largest, it is time for me to do some more home work. Truth be known I don't want over a 3-4" group at 100.

I have not flung near as much lead down range as many. But I have seen groups at 25, not even have a decent pattern at 50 and beyond. Yet on the flip side I have seen groups at 100-200 that were excellent, yet if one had shot them at 25 yards they would have skipped over that particular load.

As mentioned on the sizing dies. I have several of each for 357,41,44 and 45. I never could figure out why folks had a half dozen different dies in the same caliber. Well when I started in on the 41 I was all but humbled. It just had me stumped,back to the drawing board. I read and read, asked more questions and then some more. I ended up with a couple of Mia matched sets of steel dies for the 41, success!!
The 45 showed the same trait with dies. Though I still have not paid hands on a set of steel 45 colt dies, I have several odds and ends that are making good 45 colt ammo.

Not saying to buy the Redding 45 colt dies, but it may be worth at least looking at their angle. Depends on what your fired brass tells you. The 45 Colt to my understanding of the original, was NOT a straight walled case but a tapered case. I suspect that because of the BP loads being a big influence.
Jeff

[Silver Jack Hammer]

The .45 Colt's was splitting brass in my SAA's when I full length resized. Neck resizing put end to that problem. The split was lengthwise on the brass. I figured the cause was the Colt's slight taper in their chambers. The slight taper would be a good thing on the dusty frontier with black powder. However my neck resized cartridges for the Colt's SAA's wouldn't chamber in my Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt's.

[shorty500]

The .45 Colt's was splitting brass in my SAA's when I full length resized. Neck resizing put end to that problem. The split was lengthwise on the brass. I figured the cause was the Colt's slight taper in their chambers. The slight taper would be a good thing on the dusty frontier with black powder. However my neck resized cartridges for the Colt's SAA's wouldn't chamber in my Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt's.

My old m-25-5 from the mid-70s has the older maximum SAAMI dimension chambers tapering from .490 at rear to about .485 in the neck area. Huge .458 throats to go along with it. Have an oversize NEI version of the popular RCBS .45-270SAA that has a bit shorter crimp to meplat length and drops @283 using air cooled COWW metal. I size them to .458 and neck size the Remington cases that I use to segregate from other loadings. Burning 20grains of H4227 spits them out of the 8-3/8inch tube just over 1150fps and with the rear sight bottomed out it zeros at 75yards and has shown fantastic groups out to 100. Have used it for lots of rock busting way out there too

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I've cast the RCBS .45 270-SAA with various alloys and loaded various powders. I get the tightest groups at 25 yards with it but it will not deliver at 100 yards with my 3rd gen. Colt's SAA's.

[bigted]

i am mostly a nostalgia groupy myself. i thrive on the old 1873 year rifles, revolvers, and lever carbines/rifles ... namely the 45-70 gubberment, 45 Colt, and the 44-40 WCF. have not delved into the old 44-40 yet ... haven't had all the fun i can stand with the 45-70's and 45 Colts. i do like the old 45's in all guises however i am easy to entertain and it just keeps on giving for me.

speaking of nostalgia ... my mounting collection of Cap n Ball's is getting to the Junky stage and i dearly love to spend an afternoon blasting away with em then coming home and spending some more grand time cleaning and fondling them till the wife asks me if i could possibly leave my mistress and come inside to eat. [smilie=l:

my 44 mag's were magic on paper out to 300 yards and fun to play with but the recoil began to hurt my hand with the snazzy 4 inch barrel {had two ... a 686 early model and an old 29 without the dash anything} that i could hit anything i set my eyeball on. but same with the 357 Mag ... very accurate but never got the mind's juices flowin like the old 45's do. im just an old 45 junky and plan to never return to the modern rounds. bout the best modern wise will be this Smith 25-5 in 45 Colt , an 8-3/8ths barrel. boy lookin forward to playin with it.

good luck with your single shot 44 Mag. im bettin it will deliver what your lookin for as has been touted many times here and other places.

[str8wal]

In a word, NO

[Bazoo]

I finally got around to bringing my cartridges of the world with me to where I have internet access. Here is

Cartridges of the world, 5th, 44 Magnum (rifle), page 82.

Excerpt

"With a scope sight and a good single shot or bolt action, the .44 magnum is capable of excellent accuracy, and I have seen some 1-inch five-shot groups made with such rifles. " ~ Frank C. Barnes

[DanWalker]

I ordered an 8 1/2" long 45 barrel with a 1/16 twist from MGM last week. Got a 3 week wait for it now. I sent them a dummy round to cut the chamber to. I will keep you posted as to my results. Should make a fine antelope and elk whacker.

[Drm50]

I have never shot a 45Colt rifle. I have owned several 44 carbines & rifles and they all shot 1" at
60yds. I have several 44mgs revolvers and 45Colts. I don't keep a gun if it doesn't shoot. The
44mg and 45Colt is like comparing apples to oranges as far as a cartridge. One of the old gun
scribes one made the statement," there are no bad cartridges- only bad guns." Magnums have
there benifits, higher velocity = longer range. Think about this, in Bullseye shooting you don't see
many guys using magnums. The 38sp-44sp-45Colt are the calibres of choice. Some guns can be
made to shoot by working up a load, other guns won't shoot no matter what you do. Accuracy is
in the individual gun, not the cartridge.

[ejcrist]

I am asking a simple question. All things being equal, does the 44 cartridge have any advantage in pure mechanical accuracy over a 45LC? I don't think it does, but was wanting others opinions.

No. Absolutely no advantage whatsoever. I have several, and like with any revolver, if you load/fit everything just right, and do any tuning if necessary the 45 Colt will perform just as good or better than the 44 mag.