hollow point any mold with a flat tip

[mongoosesnipe]

i was thinking of modifying my lee 457-500 mold to hollow point one of the cavities for hunting and remembered casting threads into lead weights for archery stabilizers and it dawned on me to try it in a mold, so i went to the hardware with a boolet in hand to find the perfect screw

ended up going with a stainless 6-32 screw with socket head for easy removal and long story short the head was a little big but a quick turn down of the head and i was in business, scrubs 20 grains of the hard cast bullet but hunting bullets will be soft so wieght should pick back up to 480

196034

i set the scale to show the hollow point bullet weight but put the screw and a boolit with the screw in place to show the set up

[rondog]

What did you do - put the screw inside the mold, pour in the lead, then unscrew it from the bullet?

[mongoosesnipe]

yes, pour lead over screw and remove the screw from the cooled bullet, not exactly a high production method but its easy and cheap, the screw is turned down a bit in a drill press with a file since its to small to put in lathe and it fits perfectly in the tip of the mold leaves a nice cone champer in the tip and a hole of adjustable depth in the bullet its self

[OS OK]

Just signing on to watch this thread...I want to see how they will group?

[earlmck]

What a slick idea! I've gotta' try that with a couple of moulds.

[mongoosesnipe]

couple of notes if you want to try it make sure you use a stainless screw note sure of oxide finished but i think galvanized might stick plus you dont need to work about rust as the screws sit in you casting drawer for eternity

as for grouping i have only casted a handful so not enough to make a range trip worth it and havent scaled up the operation yet only bought a few screw from the hard ware store and casted my melting down some other bullets in the ladle with a torch as i didnt want to go through the trouble melting a whole pot of lead for proof of concept stage for typical hunting ranges i cant imagine groups will open up much at all due to inconsistencies in the centering of the hallow point but i am going to get some more screws and play around a bit more as well half the fun of casting is playing around

[OS OK]

couple of notes if you want to try it make sure you use a stainless screw note sure of oxide finished but i think galvanized might stick plus you dont need to work about rust as the screws sit in you casting drawer for eternity

as for grouping i have only casted a handful so not enough to make a range trip worth it and havent scaled up the operation yet only bought a few screw from the hard ware store and casted my melting down some other bullets in the ladle with a torch as i didnt want to go through the trouble melting a whole pot of lead for proof of concept stage for typical hunting ranges i cant imagine groups will open up much at all due to inconsistencies in the centering of the hallow point but i am going to get some more screws and play around a bit more as well half the fun of casting is playing around

I agree 100%.

In case you might be having trouble extracting those screws, I have a couple suggestions...
* Use a wire wheel on your bench grinder and go over the threads and all the contact surface of the screw where it is rough looking.
*Then dust it with some graphite before it goes into the mould.

As long as it stays centered in the mould it oughta be accurate at distance. You are moving the center of gravity back towards the heel of the cast when removing weight from the front end...if you go too far (too deep of a cavity) I'm guessing that the air pressure/or wind on the front end might have an advantage steering it...just a thought?

charlie

[JBinMN]

Might be interesting to see what the "core" would do from the impact, if actually left in the boolit.
;)

[OS OK]

Hmmm? . . . never thought of that angle...one thing sure...whatever gets shot will be screwed! . . . :bigsmyl2:

[gwpercle]

The one thing I enjoy about this hobby is there seems to be unlimited opportunities to invent , reinvent , improve on and just piddle around with all sorts of things. Casting hollow points with screws...that's a neat idea !
Gary

[rondog]

Might be interesting to see what the "core" would do from the impact, if actually left in the boolit.
;)

I was actually just thinking the same thing!

[camp]

Great idea, question do you preheat the screw at all before you put it in the mold?

[mongoosesnipe]

i dont preheat the screws, just in handling time the sit in the hot mold for probably 10 seconds before pouring the lead, i initially tried preheating them a bit but if the lead doesn't start solidifying quick enough the screw will float up in the lead i sooted them with a lighter to ensure they are dry after being pulled from water quenched bullets and help with release from the bullet the screws come out of the water quenched bullets easier than air cooled bullets
196152196151196153
going to try to get to the range in the next few days to compare the flat point to the HP with the same powder load

[Soundguy]

Does
t
h
e

screw
Stay put in the mold nose when closed?

[mongoosesnipe]

Does
t
h
e

screw
Stay put in the mold nose when closed?

As long as the mold and alloy is not too hot as long as you get regular 3-5 second cooling the screw stays in the tip of the mold then drops out with the bullet

[Soundguy]

I wonder if you could find a screw head that you could mill so that it 'clamped' into the mold. IE.. head OD = ID of mold tip?

[rondog]

I've never tried yet, but I still think using a center drill in a drill press to drill boolets should make fine hollowpoints. Would work even better in a small benchtop lathe.

These things.....they come in many sizes.

[Soundguy]

Hmm.. Looks like I can post from my phone again!

Those bits look lil they could work.

Then just need to get to a known weight for reloading

[masscaster]

Make sure you shoot the ones with the screws still in them around folks who don't care as these are not legal.
Anything with a steel core is considered an AP (Armor Piercing) projectile. I know this from experience.

Also, for your moulds sake. Make sure the plug is smaller than the nose diameter of the boolit or it can damage the cavity.

Jeff

[mongoosesnipe]

I wonder if you could find a screw head that you could mill so that it 'clamped' into the mold. IE.. head OD = ID of mold tip?

you could but by the nature of the screw it would still come out with the bullet and need to be unscrewed so i find having a few thousands of play and not worry about damaging the mold to be a fairly easy and practical option even though i am using a 20 dollar lee mold i would still hate to trash it.... i have some hollow point molds that utilize pin through the bottom of the mold one noe in 40 and one MP in 45 i had thought about modifying one of the chambers to use the lyman type utilized in the hp and hollow base molds but then i though up the screw idea i have 12 screws modified to cast so it goes pretty quick and especially considering these are more of a specialized product that probably only a few will actually be used each year


I've never tried yet, but I still think using a center drill in a drill press to drill boolets should make fine hollowpoints. Would work even better in a small benchtop lathe.

These things.....they come in many sizes.

while drilling works for making a hp in any bullet centering without a jig as well as holding the bullet to drill it with out deforming it can also be an issue lead is actually kind of sticky to drill but if you want to try drilling i using wood to make a clamping fixture to hold the bullet without deforming it especially if it is soft lead 2 boards with a slightly undersized holed drilled in between them to hold bullets for drilling previously it works reasonably well


Hmm.. Looks like I can post from my phone again!

Those bits look lil they could work.

Then just need to get to a known weight for reloading

you would be safe just using the original bullet weight as a data source its typically safe to put a lighter bullet on the heavy bullet charge these are fairly substantial hp and it nocks only 25 grains off total bullet weight


Make sure you shoot the ones with the screws still in them around folks who don't care as these are not legal.
Anything with a steel core is considered an AP (Armor Piercing) projectile. I know this from experience.

Also, for your moulds sake. Make sure the plug is smaller than the nose diameter of the boolit or it can damage the cavity.

Jeff

i dont plan on shooting them with the screws intact the screws cost 40 cents each beyond any liability from steel core and such if you really wanted to use something as a expansion device you also need gap for the wedge to move into to initiate a more violent expansion so you would want to use a shorter screw than the one used for casting or maybe a ball or wedge and you could use aluminum or brass screw if you were worried about being considered a steel core projectile

[rusty marlin]

Make sure you shoot the ones with the screws still in them around folks who don't care as these are not legal.
Anything with a steel core is considered an AP (Armor Piercing) projectile. I know this from experience.

Also, for your moulds sake. Make sure the plug is smaller than the nose diameter of the boolit or it can damage the cavity.

Jeff

Only counts if fired in a handgun.

[HATCH]

The head of the screw would need to fit tightly in the nose area of the mold.
If there was any play then you will have boolits that group all over the place because the HP hole will be off center and it will cause the spin to turn into a tumble.

[OS OK]

The concentric spin leaving the barrel would turn into an helical spiral...but they would be all over the place.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, however you accomplish a hollow point, concentricity is vital to accuracy. In moderate cases the effect is precisely calculable.

Range in yards multiplied by offset of the bullet centre of mass in inches multiplied by 226, divided by the rifling twist in inches.

For a ten-inch twist rifle at 600 yards, with the bullet mass .001in. off-centre, the impact will be 13.56in. off-centre, added to everything else that stops bullets going into one hole. In immoderate cases, tumbling is likely.

It is best to have a hollow-point pin located in a hole, going all the way to the bottom of the mould. The best thing to produce this is an accurately turned bushing which is clamped in the lube groove ribs of the mould, to guide the drill. All my Lee moulds are old ones with the transverse steel locating pin. But that could be replaced by one permanently located through the hollow-point pin.

[mongoosesnipe]

The head of the screw would need to fit tightly in the nose area of the mold.
If there was any play then you will have boolits that group all over the place because the HP hole will be off center and it will cause the spin to turn into a tumble.

the screws are fitted to the mold they are not tight but run out is within a few thousands certainly as good as could be drilled


The concentric spin leaving the barrel would turn into an helical spiral...but they would be all over the place.

at hunting ranges any slight imperfections are not likely to matter as much as you might think


Yes, however you accomplish a hollow point, concentricity is vital to accuracy. In moderate cases the effect is precisely calculable.

Range in yards multiplied by offset of the bullet centre of mass in inches multiplied by 226, divided by the rifling twist in inches.

For a ten-inch twist rifle at 600 yards, with the bullet mass .001in. off-centre, the impact will be 13.56in. off-centre, added to everything else that stops bullets going into one hole. In immoderate cases, tumbling is likely.

It is best to have a hollow-point pin located in a hole, going all the way to the bottom of the mould. The best thing to produce this is an accurately turned bushing which is clamped in the lube groove ribs of the mould, to guide the drill. All my Lee moulds are old ones with the transverse steel locating pin. But that could be replaced by one permanently located through the hollow-point pin.

concentricity is important to accuracy but these are pretty close and any shift from bullet to bullet in this application is within the margin of error and does not result in statistically relevant change within hunting ranges (no other reason to bother with a HP) if i were shooting a bpcr match i would not use these bullets, but i wouldn't use a lee mold either and would probably go with paper patched smooth sided bullet to eliminate the grease grooves on the bullet to improve long range ballistics, that said thats not whats going on here most shots on game occur within 100 yards

while i agree bullets would be more concentric is a mold was "perfectly" modified to but any error in the modification in the mold would result in a ruined mold i have a lathe and have experimented with making my own molds and swedging dies but for most shooters unmodified factory molds are the most viable home bullet making option

[mongoosesnipe]

in results news i finally made it to the range to test the HP boolilts vs unmodified FP bullets my rifle is zeroed at 100 yards and i didnt want to mess with the sights so groups are a little high as the testing was done at 50 yards as the benches are a little nicer at the 50 yard line and my high wall is set up with irons so i wanted to be able to shoot a decent group for the test (im probably not good enough to notice a difference between the accuracy of 2 bullets that both shoot well....)

winchester 1885 highwall (modern) 45-90 34" tang mounted peep
197265

[OS OK]

Looks pretty good to me...all this worrying over concentricity and balance and all that was pretty much for not!

Proof in the pudding...

[Artful]

An alternative if you don't want to screw around is
Forster Universal Hollow Pointer 1/8"
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/371968/forster-universal-hollow-pointer-1-8
https://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/371/371968.jpg

[Soundguy]

Thanks for the link!