505 Yard .45 Cal Hotrod Hawken

[54bore]

I finally got the chance to try 500 yards with my .45 Cal Green Mountain LRH, i was shooting Buffalo Arms .444-400 Grain bullets, paper patched and ran through my .449 sizing die, my powder charge was 70 Grains of Swiss 3F, and a .060 thou Vegetable Fibre over powder wad. This was actually 505 yards according to my Leica 1600 Rangefinder, I made a BIG sight adjustment and shot 1 time at the top target, my sight picture was really good and the shot felt great, several seconds later i heard the bullet WHOP the Rock!! I loaded up and drove around, walked up and checked my target, my hit was about 2 feet low. I had set up 2 targets one above a Rock and the other leaned up against the rock in hopes of catching the bullet, i taped up any other holes in the lower target with black electricians tape. I was able to recover bits and pieces of my bullet. I feel confident i have the hold down now, i am going back out tomorrow with my dad and will try a 3-5 shot 500 yard group (weather permitting) pics to follow.

[54bore]

Here are a few pics, look straight above my barrel and you can see my targets

195818

[54bore]

Here is another view, after i shot i loaded up and drove around, then climbed up into the logging unit to my targets, you can see my truck below, but my shot was taken at the very end of that clear cut, there is a rd at the base of that farthest clearing that goes around the backside of it (you can't see it in the picture, but that is where i shot from)


195820

[54bore]

My targets, i was holding in the center of the top target, my hit is in the bottom target just to the right of the bullseye on the edge of the target. I am right at 2 foot low. I made an adjustment for tomorrow that i feel should put me right in.

195821

[54bore]

Here is what i could recover of my bullet at the base of the Rock, Its amazing how much SMACK the bullet stil had after Traveling 505 Yards!

195823

[54bore]

And its NOT legal to hunt elk here in Idaho with a .45 Cal Muzzleloader, go figure that one?? Not that i would EVER take a shot like this on any kind of Big Game, totally unethical and something I would never do! But I definitely plan to continue target shooting my Muzzleloaders at these extreme distances to hone my skills

[Harleysboss]

Very cool! Just amazing what 70 grns of BP cant do. Now Impress us all with a 3" group at 505 :)

[Fly]

Great post! I love the pictures & the facts. Yes keep us posted.

Fly

[54bore]

Very cool! Just amazing what 70 grns of BP cant do. Now Impress us all with a 3" group at 505 :)

LOL! One never knows til they give it a whirl? The whirl will be given tomorrow if its not raining. Today was more to see if i could do it or not? Without a spotter it can be a waste of powder and lead to flail away and not know where you are hitting? Now that i know i can do this, and i am comfortable with it i am excited to see how it goes tomorrow. I tried with the 11MM bullets but could not get one on target, Its to bad that isn't a soft dirt bank, being an old logging unit it was all but impossible to tell where i was hitting? I imagine the 11MM bullet was REALLY taking a dive at that distance. The Aerodynamics/BC of the Buffalo Arms bullets seem a way better choice for playing around like this.

After the 505 Yard shot i set up and shot a 5 shot group at 108 yards, 3 in the same hole, and 2 out. Buffalo Arms doesn't show these bullets in stock anymore?? Gonna have to trott over and visit the boys, need another pound of powder anyway. My rifle is wicked accurate with these bullets! I didn't best my last group, but I'll take these any day

5 shots, 3 in the same hole, 108 Yards
195844

[725]

I love it. Keep the fun up.

[triggerhappy243]

let me put a bug in your ear then. At the gun club I shoot at, the 1000 yard range uses 6 foot by 6 foot target frames. you can make one up pretty simple to fit in the truck (2 piece 3x6).

[rfd]

way to go, lewis! love what yer doing!

[Hickok]

Good shooting! You load duplicates a good 45/70 load. How is the recoil in the Hawkin rifle?

[tigweldit]

That is some fine shooting. Rifle,load and shooter all coming together for some great fun!

[idahoron]

Very good shooting.

[54bore]

I gave it another go this morning, I usually shoot really early morning at first light, which is around 5 to 5:30am, my dad was gonna go but ended up having to do another project, that put me at my shooting spot when the sun was up and in my face, i opened up a cardboard box and nailed it to a little post, it was roughly 3Ft by 3Ft, maybe a little longer? I hung a piece of 8.5X11 white copy/printer paper in the center, when i got back to my 505 yard bench i had a REALLY REALLY hard time seeing the target, the sun was up, and my target was in the shade. The first shot was low and right, bottom right of my target, i made a windage correction and shot again, that shot was good, below the piece of printer paper, i made the elevation adjustment and started my 3 shot group, i ended up over correcting a little to much and my shots landed right at the top of my target, i had 2 on the target, and the other must have slipped over it. the 2 shots are exactly 16" apart.

This is a good start, I put 4 of my 5 shots on the board, when i got home I changed my target color to SOLID white, and painted the 8.5X11 piece of white copy/printer paper SOLID black and stuck it in the middle, i am hoping this target shows up good, my next outing will be at Daylight, probably day after tomorrow, think its supposed to rain here tomorrow?

[54bore]

Here is my Target, it was clean here, no shots fired yet, that is a nail below the white paper, you can see i was looking into the sun

195893

[54bore]

Here is my first shot, low and right, i made a windage correction and put the next shot under the bullseye, i then made my elevation adjustment and started my 3 shot group.

195894

[54bore]

As you can see my 2 shots are high, i over corrected, they are exactly 16" apart, i assume the 3rd shot slipped over the target. This was REALLY DIFFICULT to see today with the lighting conditions and poor color of target, at 500 yards every little detail is critical!

195895

[54bore]

Here i am standing at my target looking back at my truck/shooting bench, you can see my truck at the other end of cutting, my shooting bench is set up at my truck door.

195897

[54bore]

And the last one, Looking from my gun to my target, my target is straight above my barrel on that far ridge with the 2 Shadows, my target is in the lower shadow, i had a HELL of a time seeing the target, yesterday it was PERFECT and i was able to get a really good sight picture, today's lighting, poor target color, etc. was HORRIBLE at best.

I had fun shooting it, i am VERY CONFIDENT i can do much better, its hard to hit what you CAN'T see!! Notice the carcass/rib cage out front? Either a winter kill, or someone dumped it? I suspect the latter

195900

[54bore]

Good shooting! You load duplicates a good 45/70 load. How is the recoil in the Hawkin rifle?

Hickok, Recoil is very mild, i have a leather lace up recoil pad on it with memory type foam packed in the Crescent butt plate. This is one of my favorite rifles to shoot.

[54bore]

Last Pictures i posted disappeared? Ill try again

[54bore]

From my target looking back at my Truck/shooting bench you can see my truck at the FAR end of the old logging cut. Again visibility was REALLY ROUGH, straight above my barrel in that shadow on the far ridge line is my target.


195918 195919

[Hickok]

54bore, those cresent butt plates can be "hurtful" at times. Your modification sounds a good one.

[54bore]

Target pics, the first one is a clean target, you can see the sun was behind it, which meant i was looking into it.

195920

After corrections, i started a 3 shot group, i over corrected and was shooting to high. These 2 of the 3 shot group are exactly 16 inches apart, i assume the 3rd shot slipped over the Target. All in all i am happy with it, i put 4 of my 5 shots on Target, i am confident i can better this with a target i can see. Hard to hit what you CAN'T see

195924

[54bore]

54bore, those cresent butt plates can be "hurtful" at times. Your modification sounds a good one.

Hickok, I am a FIRM DISBELIEVER in the Crescent butt plate, They might look cool and be 'period correct' looking, But in my opinion they are an EXTREMELY piss poor design, My favorite fix is Idahoron's Hotrod Hawken

[54bore]

I rematched this at 5am this morning, Solid white painted target with black bull, visibility was really good, my target stood out like a beacon, 3 shot 7" Group at 505 Yards, I'll take this ANY ole day!! My williams peep now has a permanent scribed mark for 500 Yards

White is DEFINITELY the way to go!
196036

[54bore]

Target is sideways in the first pic, 2 above and the other in the upper right of the target

196037 196038 196039

[triggerhappy243]

now you have to do it again.

[54bore]

Another one from my rifle, you can really see the difference in this morning's target visibility vs last outing. And one of my permanent scribed 500 yard mark on my Williams FP Hawken. Now i need to work on 2, 3, and 400 yard settings

196044 196045

[54bore]

now you have to do it again.

I definitely will be shooting these distances more n more, Can i shoot 7" At 500 yards everytime? Probably not, who knows maybe i will better it? There are a TON of factors that come in to play at this range, lighting, the color of the target, sun up in your face, heat mirage, etc. etc. DAMN Hard to hit what you CAN'T see! The slightest screw up at these ranges and its not gonna happen plain and simple, so there will be good days, and bad ones. I have put forth a LITERAL TON of time, effort, and money in to everything about my Muzzleloading, it sure is a welcoming sight to see that my time and effort put forth is paying off. In case i am being questioned about my honesty? I will get this on video, Honesty is a quality i was taught by grandparents growing up my entire young life, I absolutely DESPISE a liar!! If i tell you i did something you can take what i am saying to the bank. Folks that know me, know this well

[charlie b]

That is really good! Being able to see the target and front sight against the target for those kinds of ranges is difficult to start with.

[54bore]

That is really good! Being able to see the target and front sight against the target for those kinds of ranges is difficult to start with.

charlie b, it really is! I have shot MUCH worse groups with a scoped centerfire at this exact same spot, and i have shot better, my absolute best 500 yard group was with my 7MM-08, i shot a 3" group with it at this same spot, But that was with a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14 scope with Rapid Z-800 Reticle, i would have been just as happy with a 20" group from my Muzzleloader with open sights/peep sights, this is proof when you get your Muzzleloader shooting true 1" groups at 100 yards and put it all together you can MOST DEFINITELY do this! There is no way i could have done this with regular buckhorn type open sights, i simply can't shoot them well. This peep sight system is what allowed me to do this. It really boils down to how well you can see your target? Even though there is a fairly large piece 8.5X11" printer paper painted black in the center of this BIG white target I actually could NOT see it well enough to hold in it, i could see it but it was REALLY faint, i just centered my fine bead Lee Shavers pin in the CENTER of the big white 3X4 foot Target and shot, and did the exact same thing each time. You have to let your rifle recoil and 'do what its gonna do' you cant grip and hang on to the forend, if you do you are defeated! I just slightly hold the forend, and after the shot i allow the rifle to 'do what it's gonna do'

This distance is EXTREME and not something very realistic, and definitely something i would never do at Big Game, but i think practicing at this kind of stuff is a good thing, with plenty of practice and being able to hit well at REALLY long distances like this, makes the shorter 150-200 yard shots a chip shot.

[triggerhappy243]

i definitely will be shooting these distances more n more, can i shoot 7" at 500 yards everytime? Probably not, who knows maybe i will better it? There are a ton of factors that come in to play at this range, lighting, the color of the target, sun up in your face, heat mirage, etc. Etc. Damn hard to hit what you can't see! The slightest screw up at these ranges and its not gonna happen plain and simple, so there will be good days, and bad ones. I have put forth a literal ton of time, effort, and money in to everything about my muzzleloading, it sure is a welcoming sight to see that my time and effort put forth is paying off. In case i am being questioned about my honesty? I will get this on video, honesty is a quality i was taught by grandparents growing up my entire young life, i absolutely despise a liar!! If i tell you i did something you can take what i am saying to the bank. Folks that know me, know this well

i am not doubting your honesty. I would do it several times just to prove it to myself. I enjoy this kind of shooting............ Because most say it can't be done.

[charlie b]

Lewis, I agree. The longest Ihave shot for record was 450m with open sights, but, that was a service rifle and many years ago.

I used to shoot my contender pistol with scope at 300 and 400m but a scope is so much easier.

I agree with holding. I like to use the off hand under the buttstock when shooting off a bench. Some rifles like a bit of padding under the forearm for some reason.

One of these days I will try that kind of range again.

[PtMD989]

Great shooting!! How's the wind situation where your shooting?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[54bore]

Great shooting!! How's the wind situation where your shooting?


No wind at all when i am doing this, we don't get much wind here and when we do it's usually mid day to evening, i shoot early morning (daylight) and rarely get bothered with wind.

[koger]

Triggerhappy 243, most of those folks who are naysayers, cant do it, or wont put the time and effort into shooting, to realize the reward it offers! I have worked up loads with a inline, that is shooting under 3", at 300yds, just for hunting, and it paid off well hunting here and out west this past two years. I also have a copy of a civil war Whitmore, fast twist 45 I built 20 year ago, shot at 500 meters at friendship, and it is very, very accurate. Shooting a .45, 430 and 500 grain slug, with 5 grease grooves, no paper patching, with a lubed fiber wad underneath, was pure poison at that distance. With the peeps, 2ffg, musket caps, I have shot2.3 inch groups at 200yds, and taken deer that far with it. Every deer shot with this heavy slug, dropped right there! On my many trips to Friendship, I took volumes of notes, of what folks were doing, loading, swaging slugs, , how they cleaned, type of glasses they wore, and asked hundreds of questions. Some things worked, some did not, but having good info can accelerate the process to get more accuracy.

[RBak]

Some things worked, some did not, but having good info can accelerate the process to get more accuracy.

A lot of wisdom right there!

Russ

[Saxtonyoung]

Louis,

This is great information your sharing. I have never shot past 250 yards with a muzzleloader and peep sights and the muzzleloader league always included 200 yard free hand shots. As you mentioned, practicing at longer ranges gives you the confidence for those shorter range shots while hunting.

[54bore]

Good post Sam!! Without the right equipment you are defeated before you pull the trigger, a guy has to be willing to put the time and money in to the right Equipment (lord knows i have done that!) And then you must have the ability to shoot well, not everyone has that ability, I know guys that shoot for a 1 gallon Milk jug filled with water at 100 yards before deer/elk season, if they can hit it they consider that good enough, i am EXACTLY opposite of that, i shoot for the cap on the milk jug. I have been handloading since i was 15 years old, i am 45 now. I have setup and shot several centerfire rifles out to 1,000 yards VERY successfully, its actually not that difficult with the components available today, but can be VERY VERY expensive, depending on the optic, a custom built rifle is the cheap part compared to say a Nightforce 5.5-22X50mm, well over 2000 for the scope alone.

Moral of the story, If a guy applies the time, and puts forth the effort you can shoot these old sidelocks WAAAAY out there.

[charlie b]

You young whippersnapper! :)

Yep, every year I go out with people to sight in their hunting rifles. Most are happy if they can hit a paper plate at 100yd...from a rest. They are the same folks who buy one box of ammo every year and devote only 10rds to sight in. The rest are for hunting. And some use all ten. Watched many guys in the field empty the magazine, reload and then shoot some more, at targets far beyond where they can hit.

They guys that routinely get meat are those like Lewis, Ron, Roger and others who put the time into shooting.

[Wayne Smith]

Shooting and knowing ranges. Especially with this equipment, we need to read range well when hunting. Long range or not, I need to know how far off my target really is.

[54bore]

Shooting and knowing ranges. Especially with this equipment, we need to read range well when hunting. Long range or not, I need to know how far off my target really is.


EXACTLY! Knowing your range is imperative when doing this, i started my long range shooting adventure with a 7MM Rem Mag 12-15 years ago, i had a load dialed in for that rifle that would truly shoot a dime size group at 100 yards, be it 3 shots or 10 shots, if you did your part they all headed for the same hole. I chose to go with a tree style reticle, i was NOT confident in the dial system at that time, my favorite of them was the Zeiss 4.5-14X44MM With Rapid Z-800 Reticle. But the most important tool of all was a good quality Rangefinder, i wanted one that would reliably read 1000 yards, be it trees, rocks, hillsides, critters, etc. I chose the Leica 1600 (i have tried and owned other brands, Leupold, Redfield, and Bushnell, None of them came no where near the Leica, not even close!) My Leica was expensive but i have NEVER regretted that purchase, i could NOT do any of this without my Rangefinder, no human being can accurately judge distances like this, and we are talking HUGE bullet drop here! I am not sure just how much this .45 is dropping at 500 yards but it's definitely a WHOLE BUNCH, I should shoot this big 4 foot tall target at 100 yards and hold on the very bottom of it and see just how high it is hitting at 100 yards with my sight set for 500, it would be interesting to figure out just how far this 400 Grain bullet is dropping out of the sky at 500 yards, i can tell you that there is significant bullet 'hangtime in the air' from the shot to the WHOP when it hits the big rock behind my target, it would be neat to find out how many seconds from shot to hit as well. This load averages right at 1400 FPS over my Chronograph

[Good Cheer]

You young whippersnapper! :)

Yep, every year I go out with people to sight in their hunting rifles. Most are happy if they can hit a paper plate at 100yd...from a rest. They are the same folks who buy one box of ammo every year and devote only 10rds to sight in. The rest are for hunting. And some use all ten. Watched many guys in the field empty the magazine, reload and then shoot some more, at targets far beyond where they can hit.

They guys that routinely get meat are those like Lewis, Ron, Roger and others who put the time into shooting.

Each fall at the range during the annual sighting in ritual it's kinda fun watching the frustration build as people shift their spotting scopes over to your target.
:-P

[54bore]

Everytime i think i have this stuff completely figured out something jumps up and takes me back to the beginning, bullet hardness being a prime example. I had no idea it was as important as it is? Idahoron and i have talked quite extensively on the subject of bullet hardness, Ron told me that it played a HUGE factor, it wasn't that I didn't believe him, but I honestly felt the more important thing was a bullet that dropped from the mold correct for paper patching UP to bore, And i stil do believe STRONGLY in it, but i have also learned from my own trial and error that Ron is dead on with the importance of bullet hardness, Ron has kept good notes over the years, things that worked well, and things that did not for him. I had not done this, but i can tell you that i do now!! I own 9 Muzzleloaders, and i have found that not 2 of them like the exact same thing. A good example is the rifle that started this thread, my .45 Cal Green Mountain LRH, this rifle likes softer lead, on the other hand my .50 Cal Stainless Green Mountain LRH likes a little harder lead, the same pot of lead that my .45 loves, my .50 doesnt have much use for it. THEN on to my stock TC Renegade 48" twist barrels, if i shoot a harder bullet in them i am REALLY lucky to hit a target the size of my toyota pickup 2 out of 3 shots, it is honestly that bad!! Soft lead is the ONLY way they will shoot for me.

While Having 9 Muzzleloaders is really cool, it is also a lot of work figuring each one out, i made up my mind awhile back to pick one off the wall and stick with it, and only it, until i get a load figured out for that particular rifle. I have done this with my .45 Cal GM LRH, i could not be more confident in a rifle than i am with this .45, what an AWESOME rifle!! Now on to my Lyman Great Plains Hunter .54 Cal 32" Twist, My goal with this rifle is 200-300 yards. I am waiting on my Custom .54 Cal mold from Accurate. Gotta love blackpowder, addicting stuff!!

[725]

I shoot at a friends range and make my own 500 & 600 yard targets. You might be interested in this: I go to Wal-Mart and buy the "shocking pink" and "shocking lime green" poster board. It about a 2'x3' piece of heavy paper. Then I place a large item like a 6" coffee can or cut out wooden disk in the middle of it (while it's all laying down on a flat surface) and spray paint all the paper out to the edges. Kind of a misty spray coverage, not totally, drenchingly, painted. The center, which was covered, remains "shocking" and is easy for even my old eyes to see. Absolutely amazing how easy it is to see those colors. ........ and you can make the center whatever size or shape you want. Keep us informed. Love hearing about your quest. :)

[54bore]

I shoot at a friends range and make my own 500 & 600 yard targets. You might be interested in this: I go to Wal-Mart and buy the "shocking pink" and "shocking lime green" poster board. It about a 2'x3' piece of heavy paper. Then I place a large item like a 6" coffee can or cut out wooden disk in the middle of it (while it's all laying down on a flat surface) and spray paint all the paper out to the edges. Kind of a misty spray coverage, not totally, drenchingly, painted. The center, which was covered, remains "shocking" and is easy for even my old eyes to see. Absolutely amazing how easy it is to see those colors. ........ and you can make the center whatever size or shape you want. Keep us informed. Love hearing about your quest. :)

725, This is very interesting! I will definitely be on the lookout for this paper at our local Wal-Mart, hopefully ours carry it. My opened up cardboard box has worked good, but a thick already bright colored paper would be a REAL treat, Thank you for the heads up on this!

[725]

54bore,

Once you try it, you will be amazed. Even in the low light of early evening, it almost glows. Good luck.

[Good Cheer]

The Great Wal sells bottles of tempera paint for an affordable price.

54,
About staying on a rifle until the bugs are worked out and the recipe book is complete, spot on. When you're pushing the envelope the bugs get smaller and harder to see.