Preferred .32-40 Boolits? (repro High Wall)

[Bigslug]

I just scouted this little cutie to feed my Dad's addiction:

195538 (I'm a good pimp. :lol:)

Winchester / Miroku 1885 Limited .32-40 - the research I've been able to do seems to indicate a birthday somewhere around 2006-2007 and a 1-16" twist. Need to get it home and slug it, but research indicates bore diameter should be in the .320"-.322" range.

Curious as to what your findings, successes and failures have been with things of this ilk. Mold designs and weight where the stabilization fails would be helpful things to know.

[marlinman93]

Don't have a Winchester 1885, but I have 6 .32-40 rifles and all are 1:16" twist, except for one oddball that's 1:15" twist. My groove diameters vary all over the place from a very small .316" to a very large Hepburn Match B that is .327" groove!
I stay under 200 grain, and only shoot my own cast lead bullets. For three of the guns that are .325"-.327" I breech seat bullets, as fixed ammo wont chamber with those large bullet sizes. I've had great luck using bullets in the 170-190 grain weight sizes. I have a couple spitzer type bullet molds, but mostly flat point. I don't see a big difference between the spitzer and the flat points in accuracy.

[Bigslug]

My groove diameters vary all over the place. . .

Yeah. . .I figured the Japanese copied SOMETHING very exactly, but WHAT is yet to be determined. The print I've found says .321", but who knows at this point of waiting period Purgatory? I use a 130 grain LBT .3205" flat nose in my ".32-20 Kinda-Sorta" Martini Cadet which can hopefully be finagled into service for fire-forming purposes. Probably will end up being a case of "Accurate Molds to the Rescue!"

[Chill Wills]

In the 0.220" to 0.223" barrel bullet options, you might look at the offerings of NOE.

We just ( a few months ago ) did a group buy here and ASSRA for a Paul Jones design that has been very good. NOE can vary the diameter in two fixed lengths of the same design bullet.

Cost was more than reasonable.

Just one idea....

[Bigslug]

Chill,

You have NOE's mold numbers for those? Not immediately obvious from Al's website which you're referring to.

[bob208]

I use the lyman 165 gr. round nose for the 8m/m. sized .321 in my 94. won a match with it. loaded with b-p in cases formed from .30-30.

use the same in my stevens 44.

[Chill Wills]

Chill,

You have NOE's mold numbers for those? Not immediately obvious from Al's website which you're referring to.

322 - 217 - SP (ELCO)
NOE

But I got the small diameter one (320"-217-SP because of the small Douglas barrel 0.219"
There are larger diameters of this design and a heaver weight as well.

Be sure and ask for what you think you need.

[lotech]

I have one of the Winchester 1885 reproductions in .32-40. Sized at .321" (or.323"), several bullets shot very well with most powders. I've used only wheelweight alloy. Lyman #319247 is a 157 grain plainbase design that shot quite accurately as long as muzzle velocity was held to a maximum of about 1,450 fps.

Accurate #32-170B and RCBS #32-170 FN are similar gas check designs that handle higher velocities better than the Lyman bullet. I'm not a big fan of Lee aluminum moulds, but #C324-175 -1R (gas check design), around 175 grains is , I think, intended for 8mm cartridges, but did well in my
.32-40.

While you can use powders like Unique and Universal, I had best results with more suitable powders: H4895, 5744, IMR4198, and SR4759. No fillers.

[rhbrink]

I think that you will find that the 322-217 at 1.220 inches will be too long for your 16" twist maybe the 323-188 at 1.080 might be better? Are you planning on shooting fixed ammo or breech seating? Fun and games good luck!

[lotech]

Speaking of long bullets, I tried the 200 grain SAECO (don't recall the mould #); it's recommended for breech seating rather than a fixed cartridge. I seated it in the case, barely. Looked a bit weird, but it was very accurate, if not real practical.

[Bigslug]

I think that you will find that the 322-217 at 1.220 inches will be too long for your 16" twist maybe the 323-188 at 1.080 might be better? Are you planning on shooting fixed ammo or breech seating? Fun and games good luck!

I ran the numbers on that one through Berger's calculator, and yes, it looks like it would be in danger of tumbling at any velocity a .32-40 would be capable of throwing it. I also ran the same program on the 197 grain, 1.01" long, .16 caliber meplat, .32 Special bullet languishing in NOE's Group Buy Discussion section, and that one's stable down to under 900 fps launch speed. It would seem that the corner of the envelope is somewhere in between.

Don't plan to do any breech seating. More likely it will be a case of finding or designing a mold off the pound-cast to naturally center up from a loaded cartridge.

[Wincacher]

I have a Winchester 1885 in 32-40 that was made in 1892 that I acquired last year. The bore is about a 9, or slightly better, and slugs out to .320 in the grooves and .3165 in the lands. I use an RCBS 32-170 Gas Check bullet in front of 15.2 grains of AA 5744. Cases are reformed W-W 38-55 which came out to the exact proper length after reforming. That gives me an average velocity of 1542 fps and is quite accurate. That load is a little hot and will be trying out the same powder with 15.0 and 14.8 grains next.

The front sight had been filed down and I need to replace it with a taller one.

195681

[Chill Wills]

I think that you will find that the 322-217 at 1.220 inches will be too long for your 16" twist maybe the 323-188 at 1.080 might be better? Are you planning on shooting fixed ammo or breech seating? Fun and games good luck!

Ooops! Good catch! I read 16 T but it did not click in my head. Too many facts stored in my memory. In the moment, I was thinking that 16 was our common twist for 32 cal. 200y bench rifles.

My 32 bench rifle is a 14 twist Douglas and I agree, the longer 217gr would not be a good choice for a 16T Winchester.
Bigslug, Sorry if I put you on a goose chase.
Is the rifle in question a sporter weight barrel?

[Bigslug]

In the grand scheme of 1885's, yeah it's a sporter weightish full octagon, but not a skinny mountain rifle kind of thing. Should be a good offhand rig. 28", IIRC.

[Bigslug]

Not much new to report besides:

1. Accurate!

2. FUN!!

Pop is forming cases out of Starline .38-55's, and we're learning about his new case annealer in the process. Miroku does a NICE job! The grooves slug out at .3215" throat and muzzle, and the chamber / neck thickness seem to indicate the shank wants to be in the ballpark of .323" - .324". Shouldn't be hard to figure out a mold for this one.

Fire formers were with 130 grain, .3205" 16-1 slugs from the custom LBT mold for my Martini Cadet, atop a bit of leftover Trail Boss bought to fuel a .45ACP-converted Webley revolver I no longer have. After a bit of sight-fiddling, it seems to want to be about a 1.5 MOA rifle - without having done any real load development. Recoil and noise about like a .22 Mag. This is gonna be a SWEET offhand gun!

But sadly not MY sweet offhand gun. . .I now seem to be totally corrupted on 1885's. Taylor's has had instructions to e-mail me when they get shipment of the Uberti .357 Magnum Low Walls I've been waffling on. It seems like a foregone conclusion now.:veryconfu

[Green Frog]

I think you will find that once you find the proper bullet diameter, you will have a lot of latitude on length and weight, my original likes about anything from about 165 gr to 200 gr. If you can find some IMR 4227, you might want to try about 14-14.5 gr of that behind a 195 gr bullet of your choice in fixed ammo. For breech seated I still love the late, lamented IMR 4759... glad I have a big hoard of it!

Froggie

[jazzman251]

I've had the exact same rifle for 5 years. Believe it or not it shoots Meister 170 gr bullets with 15 grains of IMR 4277 with excellent results. They size out @ .323 and I have no complaints. I realize this goes against everything here in terms of casting your own, but it will get you up and shooting quickly.
Good luck.

[Green Frog]

Another bullet mould worth looking for is the old Ideal 321232, a mould originally designed for the 32 Winchester Special. It drops out at about 170 gr with #2 alloy or a little heavier with the 25:1 lead tin mix I generally use. Several old time writers recommended it highly for original 32-40s, so it might be worth a try for your repro.

Froggie

[Bigslug]

Sounds like he's got a custom one in the works from Accurate, so we'll see what the mail brings.

We were darn tempted by the 197 grain .32 Special/Rem/8x57 Elco clone under discussion at NOE. Dimensions very nearly perfect, but the bore pinned out at .316", the nose of that bullet is .316", and the rifle has virtually zero taper in the throat, so there's more chance of too-tight than we're willing to undertake. With the .38-55 brass forming the way it is, .324" looks to be the ideal diameter for that old school, barely crimped, slip fit into the case. I expect he'll text me the mold number when Tom gets it up. To be continued. . .

[ofreen]

Still hard to beat the Lyman 323470.

[Bigslug]

Accurate 32-186D shall be the science project of choice.

197094

Opted to ditch the crimp groove (not a repeater) to beef up the front band, and taper that front band so we can fiddle around with seating depth. We shall see. . .

[Hooker53]

That is one Drop Dead Gorges rifle!!! Enjoy!! I know a lot of folks is Sharps crazy and nothing wrong with that but for my mind, I'd as soon have that High Wall.


Roy
Hooker53

[MT Chambers]

All my most accurate molds for the 32/40 are actually designed for the 8mm (.323") as most others are too small, all my most accurate loads are breech seated.... If I just used fixed ammo, I would have gotten rid of that rifle long ago.

[marlinman93]

Are you going with the .324" shown in the Accurate drawing above? Considering what your bore slugged to, I'd have Tom reduce the size to drop at .323" and be closer to groove size.

[Bigslug]

Dunno off hand - Dad's rifle, Dad's mold, but IIRC, the chamber wanted them on the fat side once he figured out the thickness of his case walls. Easier to size down than up.

[Bigslug]

Accurate 32-186D shall be the science project of choice.

197094

Opted to ditch the crimp groove (not a repeater) to beef up the front band, and taper that front band so we can fiddle around with seating depth. We shall see. . .

Well. . .I'm happy to say it seems to work. . .

202166

Best results with cast bullets in any platform so far. . .and this is with peep & globe sights. Might have shaved this spread down some with either a ring insert in the front post of by lollipopping the black on top of the post instead of center hold, but That'll do, Pig. . .that'll do.

[OlDeuce]

Well. . .I'm happy to say it seems to work. . .

202166

Best results with cast bullets in any platform so far. . .and this is with peep & globe sights. Might have shaved this spread down some with either a ring insert in the front post of by lollipopping the black on top of the post instead of center hold, but That'll do, Pig. . .that'll do.

Great shooting!!! I have 3 of the 32-40 and they all shoot well !!! Your Japanese 1885 is by far the best made for your Dollar!!! and It's a Great Looking
Rifle !

Ol Deuce