Hanging Gas Checks on 30-30 bullets

[KirkD]

I read Junior's excellent article on 30-30 bullets here http://www.castbullet.com/reload/meplat.htm . I find that the Lyman 311041 bullet does not shoot worth a hoot in my 30-30, but the 180 RCBS does very well. My only concern is that the bottom of the 180 RCBS hangs down below the neck into the main cavity and I'm wondering about gas checks coming off during firing, since there's no sidewall support. Any thoughts or experience on this?

[fourarmed]

I can't say about the gas checks, but if the throat of your rifle is a good fit to the 180 RCBS, there is a good chance it would like the 165 RCBS silhouette boolit, too, and there should be no problem with unsupported checks. I shoot 3 different .30-30s with cast, and each has its favorite boolit. The Win. 64A likes 311291, the 336 311041, and the Merrill pistol only shoots well with the 165-sil.

[Christian for Israel]

about all you can do is try it and see. load 10 rounds as identically as you can, 5 with GC's and 5 without, then shoot groups with them. if the GC'd rounds perform better then stick with the practice.

[Doc Highwall]

Kirkd, what are the dimensions of your boolit 311041, and what are the dimensions of your gun's throat.

[KirkD]

I don't know what the throat diameter is, but my groove diameter is .3075". As for the diameter of the Lyman 311041, I've tried a range of diameters from .309 to .310. None of them give a tight group. A forum member sent me 5 RCBS 180 bullets, 2 of them H.T. ww + 2% tin and the other 3 were ww + 2% tin. The HT ww + 2% tin bullets hit only 1" apart at 100 yards with open iron sights (albeit I only had two bullets to shoot). The other three were a bit looser, giving a 2 & 1/2" group at 100 yards. Still these 5 bullets were shot on the same target and the overall 5-shot group was better than anything I've been able to get with the 311041 bullet, and I've shot maybe 30 different types of 311041 bullets. The 150 RCBS bullet also seems to be the best bullet for my 30-30. I've not tried Ranch Dog's bullet, which looks like it has a shorter shank so that the GC is not left dangling. GC's are a must for me. I don't like leading, so using these bullets without their GC is not an option for me at the velocities I want (around 1,800 -1,900 fps with the 177-180 grain bullets).

[Junior1942]

Kirk, I've shot bunches of those 30-180-FN bullets in two Model 94 Winchesters with never a problem. How can the gas check come off with all that pressure pushing against it? You're pushing the bullets out, not pulling them out.

[MT Gianni]

Use Hornady or Gator checks that crimp on. Gianni

[KirkD]

Junior, once the gas check is in the neck, I agree, there's no way it's coming off. However, when it is dangling inside the large case, before it is shoved into the neck, that's when I wonder if they have ever been known to work off (although I'm not sure how a person would ever know, other than the occasional flyer. I personally do not see how it is going to come off, but yet I have had the GC's on other calibers come off, judging from the gas check ding in my chronograph .... although that may have come off upon exiting the muzzle.

I use Hornady gas checks for my 30-30 and an RCBS lubrisizer and SPG lube on everything. I don't see how my GC's would come off, but it's a strange world we live in and I've seen all sorts of bizarre things happen on a regular basis that weren't supposed to happen, so I just thought I'd check with the board here before ordering a RCBS 180 as my main mould.

[georgewxxx]

Kirk, If you feel there's a chance the check might slip off from the base, the only solution is 100% density load or a Polly filler to make it 100% You might have to search for a slower powder and be satisfied with bigger groups, but remember for hunting applications 4" to 5" groups generally suffice. Especially with a 30-30 where you limit your shot to 100yds or less....Geo

[Junior1942]

Kirk, I've tried to pry Hornady sized gaschecks off cast bullets with my thumbnail several times in the past. I couldn't do it. I could with a screwdriver, but not with my thumbnail.

[KirkD]

My IMR 3031 loads are pretty full at 27 grains for the heavier bullets and 29 grains for the 150's. I like to have a minimum standard of 3" for a five shot group at 100 yards with open sights. I'm happier with a load/bullet type-diameter that gives a 2" group. My hunting shots are up to 200 yards for Whitetail deer. As a result, I also like to practice at 200 yards and like to keep my 5 shot groups at 6" or less at that range with open iron sights. The more I think about this, and given no one else has had falling gas checks, it seems to me that I will never have to worry about this. That conclusion being reached, I think I may proceed with the RCBS 180 mould. Junior, thanks for that excellent article.

[crowbeaner]

Try some WW 748 with the RCBS 30-180-FN. My SRC loved the combination. I use Hornady gaschecks for everything except the 41 caliber. I like the way the check "snaps" on the base of the unsized boolits; especially on the 225415.

[Griff]

Kirk,
All my cast .30-30 bullets are GC'd. I've never had a GC come off. If you're sizing the GC onto the bullet base in the lubrisizer you have to really work to pry 'em off. I don't think the fact that they're not supported in the case neck will cause 'em to just fall off. In addition, I don't believe that you'd get enough gas action around the GC crimp to pry it off.

[Chuck 100 yd]

The 311041 works great in all my .30-30`s both Winchester and Marlin.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c356/chuckleininger/IMG_1137.jpg

50yd target, ww+tin sized.3095 18gr IMR4198, 1595fps. Shoots good up to 1900 or so.